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#1955066 - 09/06/12 08:41 PM Adult transfer student [Re: AZNpiano]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Hi AZN,

If you are already doing it, and it works without problems, then I agree, why not keep it up?

EZPiano is having an issue, to which (I believe) eMail is contributing. So why foster that?

I know there are gradations between the two cases, like what exactly you are using eMail for, how often messages are exchanged, nature of the messages, how many words they contain, and how long one waits to reply.

To me, there is an unspoken socialization associated with eMail that may or may not be a healthy thing to promote between teacher and student. Obviously, I, for one, would avoid it if I were still teaching.

And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1955083 - 09/06/12 09:23 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: LoPresti]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: LoPresti

And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.

The question is not obvious, and it contains a number of assumptions. Do you know personally how this teacher works? In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.

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#1955091 - 09/06/12 09:37 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: keystring]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5558
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: LoPresti

And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.

The question is not obvious, and it contains a number of assumptions. Do you know personally how this teacher works? In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.






f Thanks! f
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1955130 - 09/06/12 11:24 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: keystring]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: keystring
In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.

Ah, KeyString, but you seem fine in attacking virtually everything I write. Where is your self-righteous respect for this "colleague"?
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1955159 - 09/07/12 12:51 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: AZNpiano]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
What may not be quite so obvious, however, is this: When a teacher encourages student communication through eMail, that teacher is self-undermining a certain degree of her/his authority. S/he has metaphorically begun to socialize with her/his students.

"Self-undermining"???

I keep e-mail correspondence with several students, and they're 20-25 years younger than I am. Am I "self-undermining" by e-mailing them their assignments?

So, what should I do instead? Use postal mail? Call them and leave a voice message?

The topic is not about the value of emailing, in general, so LoPresti is going to insist that we adhere to the exact points of the OP. Anything you have to say that is an off-shoot from that, going in another direction, will be ignored, distorted or ridiculed.

I specifically tell my students, even the youngest, that it is their job to help me make their assignments, which we work on together. And I tell them that it is their job to make sure they do not leave without that assignment, which I print out at the end of each lesson.

But they are human, and now and then one leaves without the assignment. And I am human. I have printed out the wrong one, or I have rushed one out and so have been as much or more to blame for not taking care of the printout. They are all on my computer, and if the parent of a child contacts me saying that the assignment did not get in their books, we can fix that in seconds. Attach file, let them print it out at home. And that helps me, because the fact that they ASKED shows that they are paying attention.

Two of my most responsible adults emailed me sometime in the last couple months, reasonable requests that I could take care of in attachments in seconds.

We’ve talked for a year or two, and it has been my impression that you are rather strict, so I sincerely doubt you are being taken advantage of.

There is incredible irony in being instructed in how to use technology by technophobes. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1955162 - 09/07/12 01:11 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: keystring
In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.

Ah, KeyString, but you seem fine in attacking virtually everything I write. Where is your self-righteous respect for this "colleague"?

Keystring is one of the least combative people I have ever known.

You once told me that my students would be humiliated in a music school because of what I teach.

At that time you already knew that I have taught for several decades.

In what universe did you think that was respectful?

Again and again you twist other people’s words and cherry-pick comments out of context.

You are asked to respond to a specific question, then you ignore that question and hammer home a point that has nothing to do with the question. And when challenged, you claim that you have no patience with the rest of us because we do not agree with you.

If you want respect, start treating other people with respect.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1955196 - 09/07/12 02:37 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: Gary D.]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
You once told me that my students would be humiliated in a music school because of what I teach.

At that time you already knew that I have taught for several decades.

In what universe did you think that was respectful?

Gary,

I had a high amount of respect for you, too, until you started in with this silliness, and will not let it fade into history. We were discussing theory, as I recall, and you asserted, without qualification, that one could correctly spell a C7 chord with C, E, G, and A#. Around that same time, still discussing theory, you wrote that there were only three diminished seventh chords in total. Your decades of teaching not withstanding, I simply could not let that misinformation stand.

Here again from memory, my comment was something like, "If you actually teach that to your students, they will be laughed out of any music school in the country."

And then, as now, right or wrong, you continue to argue. Why, I am not sure.
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1955201 - 09/07/12 02:54 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: LoPresti]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: keystring
In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.

Ah, KeyString, but you seem fine in attacking virtually everything I write. Where is your self-righteous respect for this "colleague"?


Throughout this thread I have offered my thoughts, and gave reasons based on fact and experience. Where I disagreed with your statements it has never constituted an "attack". Your responses isolated some statements while ignoring others, so that the meaning was lost or altered. In one long post you made it appear that I was saying e-mail gave power in a sense of ego, and then used that - I corrected this by explaining the idea of tools of communication giving options = power. This was not acknowledged. It took me two paragraphs to correct that single misrepresentation. If it is due true misunderstanding then I don't mind the loss of time. But it was not acknowledged. When points are deliberately distorted, the writer is caught in a growing spiral of explanations which in turn get distorted - I cannot afford the time for that. It is exhausting and demoralizing. This is the point where I tried to bow out. NONE of what I wrote was ever an "attack".

Next a teacher gave feedback. Your response there not only appeared to be a joke, you even berated someone who took you seriously for not being smart enough to see it was a joke. This type of behaviour can destroy discussions and that is not fair to anyone. Those who take time out to try to help in a matter should not have that time wasted by mockery. Nor should anyone have to follow a carefully thought out post with much longer posts, re-explaining everything due to distortions.

I would have discussed the various ideas you put forth, but at that point I doubted your sincerity. I expected the same selective picking of my words which I am guessing is some kind of debate style. I find it disheartening. Some find debate invigorating: I suppose in competitive game scenarios it might be so for participants. If I feel anything it is not belligerence, but disappointment. There are things I would have written - did write - and deleted unposted in the conviction of not being heard.

Yesterday's post, where a competent senior teacher was being lectured on his practices did shock me. This time I did point out my observation. Your response was as above - not addressing the issue, but turning into the idea of attacks by me, and turning it around, period. I do not believe that what I wrote was disrespectful. I don't know what your profession is, so I don't know whether we are colleagues.

What I don't know, where I may give the benefit of the doubt, is where someone with such a gift for words, a high vocabulary, and obvious intelligence, could at the same time be blundering into the virtual world and genuinely not know what is offensive. I do think it's possible.

This whole thing saddens me. I don't often give up on things.

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#1955210 - 09/07/12 03:32 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
I personally like email a lot to communicate with students or with parents. Here is some benefit of email:
1. I can work on it only at the time I like, not in the middle of shopping, cleaning house or teaching
2. I can have some time to think about how to response to concerns or request of students or parents instead of being put on the spot.
3. I can look at my google calendar side by side when schedule a rescheduling so that I won’t make mistakes. If student calls me and I happen not have my calendar with me, I might remember the wrong time or dates.
4. I can keep a record of what has been told to parents in black and white in case of miscommunication happen. For example, when I take my Labor Day off and I like to make sure my students won’t show up and see no one at studio, I email them instead of calling them or remind them the lesson before. Guess what, one student did show up and the mother is not happy that I am not there, so I kindly remind her to read the email I sent out August 20. After reading the email she realize that I did remind her once during the lesson and again with email, then she knows that she forget and she won’t blame me for that.
_________________________
http://ezpiano.org
Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

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#1955223 - 09/07/12 04:01 AM Adult transfer student [Re: keystring]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
I joined this thread with . . .
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
LoPresti's Rule #1: Nip eMail communication in the bud! Communicate only face-to-face, or if necessary, voice-to-voice on the telephone.


Originally Posted By: keystring
Keystring's Rule #1:
Don't make rules.
-if tempted to make rules, be aware of the many possibilities, beyond what your own experience might be.


Even if I pay you a compliment . . .
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: keystring
. . . When I tried to talk about it in lessons, I would come out with an incomprehensible stammering jumble of words.

KeyString,
I can not picture this from you, under any circumstances, ever!

. . . there is a rebuttal . . .
Originally Posted By: keystring
. . . You have known me only in writing, and never in oral communication. I am able to compose my thoughts in writing much better than in person. . .


Originally Posted By: LoPresti
I stand by LoPresti's Rule #1. Communications between students and teachers are an on-going challenge, as evidenced by the discussions on these Forums. eMail adds to the problem. Simple.

. . . and gain-say . . .
Originally Posted By: keystring
Or SOLVES the problem. smile



Gary joins in the festivities:
Originally Posted By: Gary D
My number one rule:
Don't listen to people lecture on the Net who continually talk about how useless the Net is.


I try to have a little fun:
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
LoPresti’s Flow Chart for correctly using the Unspoken Aspects of eMail

. . . . . Do I have it about right so far?


And it is met with thinly-veiled insults, masquerading as analysis -
Originally Posted By: keystring
"Reductio ad absurdum", literally "reduce into the absurd". . . Sometimes a person of low intellect, or an intelligent person who is totally unfamiliar with a subject will appear to be doing this, when it is simply lack of knowledge showing through. The above appears to be reductio ad absurdum.


Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Gary,

I am eternally grateful to you for bringing me back to this thread. I see now exactly what I have been missing in regards to eMail, and its use.

For you email would be merely another place for you to be as condescending and arrogant as you are here, but without having anyone to witness it. . .


Originally Posted By: LoPresti
"Reductio ad absurdum"
Occasionally, the subject itself verges on the absurd, and that can be confusing, too. It looks like it has been transformed, but it did not need to be.


Originally Posted By: keystring
Ed, the people in this forum are trying to find solutions, better ways of doing things, etc. It is a practical forum. There are teachers here trying to teach, students trying to work with teachers, parents trying to do the same, and people learning to teach. It is not the place to spread confusion for the sake of making a point of how silly it is . . .


Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: keystring
Ed, the people in this forum are trying to find solutions, better ways of doing things, etc.

So am I.

I am simply attempting to offer a suggestion to EZPiano (whose sincere thread I am afraid we have destroyed), put forth my opinion on a tool that is all-too-often an instrument of MIS-communication, and have a little fun in the process.


I wrote a note back to Malkin . . .
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Originally Posted By: malkin
It is interesting that you consider the person who pays your wages to be your "underling."

Seriously? From many of your other posts, Malkin, you seem like a pretty smart individual. Do you actually think my Flow Chart is real?

. . . that you needed to criticize:
Originally Posted By: keystring
What for?
A young teacher shared what she knew, and it was turned into a joke. To what end?


I responded to AZN’s question to me . . .
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Hi AZN . . . And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.

. . . and got a response from (guess who?) again:
Originally Posted By: keystring
The question is not obvious, and it contains a number of assumptions. Do you know personally how this teacher works? In fact, in a discussion where so much has been said about formality, I find it disrespectful. I cannot even imagine colleagues who are fellow teachers questioning a top teacher's (or any teacher's) procedures like this.


Originally Posted By: LoPresti
Ah, KeyString, but you seem fine in attacking virtually everything I write. Where is your self-righteous respect for this "colleague"?


To which Gary answers . . .
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
The topic is not about the value of emailing, in general, so LoPresti is going to insist that we adhere to the exact points of the OP. Anything you have to say that is an off-shoot from that, going in another direction, will be ignored, distorted or ridiculed. . . .
There is incredible irony in being instructed in how to use technology by technophobes.


But that isn’t quite insulting enough, so he immediately follows up with :
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Keystring is one of the least combative people I have ever known. . . . .Again and again you twist other people’s words and cherry-pick comments out of context.

You are asked to respond to a specific question, then you ignore that question and hammer home a point that has nothing to do with the question. And when challenged, you claim that you have no patience with the rest of us because we do not agree with you.

If you want respect, start treating other people with respect.


If I did not know better, I might think I am being double-teamed.
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1955226 - 09/07/12 04:16 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Ed, I'll put it down to lack of understanding somewhere for some reason. Obviously what I have tried to say in most of my posts is not coming across, even if individual isolated sentences are. Since my attempts to communicate via the forum are failing, I will cease to do so and consider that it's nobody's fault. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

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#1955235 - 09/07/12 05:03 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: LoPresti]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4814
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
We were discussing theory, as I recall, and you asserted, without qualification, that one could correctly spell a C7 chord with C, E, G, and A#.

To set the record straight, once and for all.

1. C E G A# is the traditional spelling for what is called a German 6th chord.
2. This traditional spelling is often used, but not always, when the next chord is E/B, a I 6/4 chord in the key of E major.
3. It could also resolve to Em/B, a I 6/4 chord in the key of E minor.
4. And it could, conservatively, move to a B7 if the 5th is left out of the B7, the V7, thus avoiding parallel 5ths, so that C-E does not move to B-F#.
5. In general, there is a split in the music world between those who use Roman numerals and those who use “letter chords”. Thus it is likely that a conservative, classically-trained musician will label the German 6th chord as such and not use a letter. BUT:
6. There are people who use letter chords AND Roman numerals, BOTH, to label progressions. In the key of E major or E minor, the German 6th chord, C E G A#, could conceivably be written as C(#6), indicating spelling. This would, theoretically, show that an enharmonic spelling is used in place of the normal C7 spelling.
7. BUT: This same chord, German 6th in traditional and conservative analysis, will show up in highly sophisticated music that is not “classical”, and IF a chord symbol is used, most likely it would be C7. Because unless we accept an unorthodox spelling, something like C(#6), we have two choices. We can either say it is impossible to use a letter chord to show the SOUND of the chord or we can live with the chord symbol that represents the sound but not the spelling.
8. A student who is unable to recognize that this chord – the German 6th – sounds exactly like a C7 but must be SPELLED differently, because of its FUNCTION, has a lot to learn, Period.
9. Since I blanket cover this whole concept, making sure that students know all the info I know, there are two logical conclusions: the first is that I myself would be laughed at, because of my “ignorance”. The second is that I have taught great flexibility, covered spelling conventions and several ways of possible analysis.

Quote:

Around that same time, still discussing theory, you wrote that there were only three diminished seventh chords in total. Your decades of teaching not withstanding, I simply could not let that misinformation stand.

Again, I have to set the record straight.

1. When a diminished chord is stacked in minor 3rds, the result is, among other things, the textbook spelling of a VII°7 chord, an example being B D F Ab.
2. In conservative Roman numeral analysis, one way of writing this would be vii°7.
3. This assumes that in a minor key, a chord based on the harmonic minor is allowed to be expressed this way. This kind of analysis is in many textbooks, so obviously I am on solid ground.
4. B D F Ab can theoretically be inverted three times and remain that same vii°7 chord. Thus B D F Ab, D F Ab B, F Ab B D and Ab B D F could all be looked at as one single chord, the same vii°7.
5. Following that logic there are as many different dim7 chords as there are possible keys, including keys modulated to that do not have conventional key signatures – and that number is obviously greater than 12
6. BUT: in all the fake books and jazz charts I’ve seen, B D F Ab is labeled as Bdim OR Bdim7
7. D F Ab B is labeled either Ddim or Ddim7
8. F Ab B D is labeled either Fdim or Fdim7
9. Ab B D F is labled either Abdim or Abdim7
10. I used both dim and dim7 for the fully diminished chord because many fine jazz arrangers assume that dim will cover the four-note chord, and that the simple three note chord, OFTEN but not ALWAYS spelled as a triad, is covered by the dim label. Other arrangers prefer to use dim for three notes and dim7 for four.
11. Since using these very common and very accepted system labels the same pitches with four different names and more – many musicians group all the potential dim7 chords that sound the same, regardless of spelling or theoretical inversion – as being in the same SET of notes.
12. Viewed in this manner, dim7 chords, in any inversion that use these pitches, are grouped as one set by SOUND: B#/C D#/Eb F#/Gb A. And of course A could potentially be Bbb or Gx.
13. Therefore, all inversions of any dim7 chord can be viewed EITHER as different chords, with different roots, or the same chord with the same sound, with spelling only chosen by where the chord goes to next.
14. Using this exact logic, explained in this exact way, I had straight As in theory. And one of my teachers was John Boda, who apprenticed as a conductor under George Szell.
Quote:

Here again from memory, my comment was something like, "If you actually teach that to your students, they will be laughed out of any music school in the country."

I went to FSU. No one laughed at me. Other students came to me for help when they were not able to master what came effortlessly to me, and I had lively discussions with several of the members of the faculty who taught theory. Then, as now, I was able to analyze music using several different methods, and my flexibility was admired.

My point, then as now, is that for a reason I can’t fathom you appear to be too socially inept to understand why what you said “then” and what you are repeating “now” is highly insulting.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1955286 - 09/07/12 08:32 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
I hope I can get this across.

1. The most difficult and important task is that of creating foundations in students. This involves shaping physical playing, developing the ear, and an understanding of musical concepts through the senses and body as well as the mind all as one unit. It is not done by reading out of a textbook to students, but through activities and interaction. If you observe a lesson, you may not know what is being formed as you see random activities. It is subtle and cannot be described directly.

2. While what such teachers do may appear concrete (student claps out a rhythm, counts, learns Mary Had a Little Lamb), their choices are governed by underlying concepts. You dismantle the thing, know what it's about, and then build from that.

3. Brainstorming underlying concepts does not equate teaching them literally to students. Also, one cannot know how a teacher teaches by reading about underlying concepts, especially when taken literally. However, other teachers facing the same challenges may well understand what is meant.

To Ed in particular: A while back you suggested that a student listen for certain things, and that student would need certain foundations to be able to do that listening. You knew what he ought to do if had those foundations, but not how to get them. This area of giving foundations is what you stumbled on. It is tied up with points 1 - 3.
-----------------
I was involved in the thread in question and took the time to understand what it was about. It involved such underlying ideas, from which teaching can be built in various directions. I think this was in the teacher's forum and meant for teachers meeting those challenges.

The dim7 idea:
If you start with a Cdim7 generically as a series of pitches or piano keys, and build more dim7's chromatically, once you reach Eb (or D#) you will have played every possible note in the sense of pitches (i.e. Eb and D# are the same pitch). In this sense there are only three. the Dim7 is absolutely symmetrical.

Many things can be built out of this, including all the spellings you might ever want. It is a core idea. The question would be "What can we do with this?" "What directions can we take it?"

Conclusions should not be made too soon. That is the main point.

It is time consuming to wade through all the material on the Internet. Maybe it takes too much time to really understand a situation, or really find out what someone is trying to say. But in that case, why pass judgment or make statements? Why not find out more? These are not casual hobbies. Some of the people here have dedicated decades full time to what is behind their words.

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#1955289 - 09/07/12 08:34 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
I personally like email a lot to communicate with students or with parents. Here is some benefit of email:
1. I can work on it only at the time I like, not in the middle of shopping, cleaning house or teaching
2. I can have some time to think about how to response to concerns or request of students or parents instead of being put on the spot.
3. I can look at my google calendar side by side when schedule a rescheduling so that I won’t make mistakes. If student calls me and I happen not have my calendar with me, I might remember the wrong time or dates.
4. I can keep a record of what has been told to parents in black and white in case of miscommunication happen. For example, when I take my Labor Day off and I like to make sure my students won’t show up and see no one at studio, I email them instead of calling them or remind them the lesson before. Guess what, one student did show up and the mother is not happy that I am not there, so I kindly remind her to read the email I sent out August 20. After reading the email she realize that I did remind her once during the lesson and again with email, then she knows that she forget and she won’t blame me for that.

Ezpiano, these are many of my own reasons. The number one thing that e-mail gives me is the freedom to use my time as I choose, and formulate my thoughts. Well stated, and thank you.

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#1955315 - 09/07/12 09:21 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
bajabill Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 86
Loc: mid USA
Can I summarize where this has gone - paralysis by analysis

sorry to interrupt, carry on.... shocked

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#1955350 - 09/07/12 10:25 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: Gary D.]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
We were discussing theory, as I recall, and you asserted, without qualification, that one could correctly spell a C7 chord with C, E, G, and A#.

To set the record straight, once and for all.

1. C E G A# is the traditional spelling for what is called a German 6th chord.
2. This traditional spelling is often used, but not always, when the next chord is E/B, a I 6/4 chord in the key of E major.
3. It could also resolve to Em/B, a I 6/4 chord in the key of E minor.
4. And it could, conservatively, move to a B7 if the 5th is left out of the B7, the V7, thus avoiding parallel 5ths, so that C-E does not move to B-F#.

But Gary, none of this elaboration was present in that post of yours. Had you prefaced your comment with any of this, I would not have called you on it. I'll go back and find those threads if you really want that. Maybe you would be smarter to just let it go?
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#1955360 - 09/07/12 10:50 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2691
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Good grief.

Maybe this thread is what that ad about "...the first step into 1000 years of darkness..." is really talking about.
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A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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#1955457 - 09/07/12 02:38 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: LoPresti]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5558
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.

Ed,

I have not the slightest idea how this thread became what it is now, but I must say the above paragraph does come across as rude. I don't know you. You don't know me. So I don't get how you would want me to reflect on how I conduct my business.

And, FYI, even e-mail has become an outdated mode of communication. Things change rapidly. I use e-mail because I can save what I send and keep a paper trail of everything I wrote so I have PROOF in case somebody accuses me of doing or not doing something. I can also attach documents and receive documents. These are all very important things in my line of work.

Have a nice day.
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#1956020 - 09/08/12 04:26 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
saerra Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 842
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
How can I have my new adult transfer student stop saying bad things about his previous piano teacher?
It has been six lessons I taught, after every lesson, he has to send me email and explain to me how bad his previous teacher are and how good I am. The first two emails are fine, and it get worst. I have to start to worry now.


Hi ezpiano -

Can I make one suggestion?

You could gently mention (in person!) that you've noticed a recurring theme in his emails about his old teacher, and that you realize that must have been a difficult situation. However, by continuing to invest his energy in exploring/discussing that situation, which is now in the past, he is perhaps limiting his ability to progress musically now, in the present.

That energy could be so much better spent practicing, studying, learning, and exploring!

You might try to get him to understand that, as terrible as it is to waste time and money with a bad teacher... it's even WORSE to continue wasting time, money, and the opportunity to progress with a good teacher, because you can't let go of the past.

I think if you go this route, you need to be careful to provide some empathy, and to take the stance that you're looking out for his interests, as his teacher. You don't want to come across as if you were saying he should just quit whining and forget it already wink (for example).

Good luck, I hope it works out for you!

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#1956250 - 09/09/12 07:49 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
manyhands Offline
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Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 129
Loc: Md
As a piano student I see my teacher as my well educated PARTNER in learning. She is not an employee , judge or superior but a mentor facilitating my enterprise. Her services are duly compensated and valued.
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#1957004 - 09/10/12 03:49 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
I talked to the previous teacher, I believe her instead of my adult student. Yes, according to the description of previous teacher and my experience, this student will be a problem down the road. However, he really is a good student who will work very hard for his goal, I can tell he is a very enthusiastic person who is sincerely wanted to learn piano but lack of skill in communicating with people around him. I would say lack of proper social skill, cannot differentiate how to maintain a professional relationship with his teacher.
So, thinking at a teacher's side, which I want the best in my student, willing to accept who my students are, I like to set some common rules with him, in another word some boundaries. I am going to create a policy and have him sign and stated that once he cross the boundaries, I have right to refuse service to him.
Sounds good?
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#1957020 - 09/10/12 04:22 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
Para Otras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
I talked to the previous teacher, I believe her instead of my adult student. Yes, according to the description of previous teacher and my experience, this student will be a problem down the road. However, he really is a good student who will work very hard for his goal, I can tell he is a very enthusiastic person who is sincerely wanted to learn piano but lack of skill in communicating with people around him. I would say lack of proper social skill, cannot differentiate how to maintain a professional relationship with his teacher.
So, thinking at a teacher's side, which I want the best in my student, willing to accept who my students are, I like to set some common rules with him, in another word some boundaries. I am going to create a policy and have him sign and stated that once he cross the boundaries, I have right to refuse service to him.
Sounds good?
ezpiano,

I am amazed this isn't already in your policy. This should not be something given to one student. This should be a standard part of your policy!

I wouldn't go out of my way to create a specific one and only have him sign it. That could create a lot of problems. However, I would be direct. Simply tell him that you are uncomfortable being told about the old teacher and want to focus on helping him to the best of your ability. If it continues, it may not be worth the effort.

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#1957023 - 09/10/12 04:26 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
No Para Otras:
You misunderstand me. This student need extra rules about common sense. I think none of my students will go to details of their personal lives in emails, I mean, details, according to the previous teacher. Apparently he is innocence for his age that do not know what kind of things should be say and what should not be say to maintain a teacher-student relationship.
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#1957025 - 09/10/12 04:30 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
Para Otras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 309
ezpiano,

I did understand. My personal opinion is that creating a something for him to sign will not make the problem go away.

You should already have a statement in your policy that discusses your rights to terminate lessons.

For his age, he is still an adult. I can't think of one adult who wouldn't be offended by a paper saying: "You can't do this this and this or lessons will be stopped." I just think speaking to him about this would be a better alternative.

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#1957031 - 09/10/12 04:44 PM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
I see you point about offending him. I talked to him today, he seems alright. I mention that our two months of trail lesson is coming to end soon, so, I will be sending him a policy and only if he agrees to follow the rules, then we will continue our piano lessons together. He did ask if it is the policy he found online, I answer it as yes, it is the same but cater to an adult student. It is true that I do have a different policy for all my adult students, in fact I also have a whole set different one for teenager students which I did not post online because it is irrelevant to most of my students.
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#1957216 - 09/11/12 12:38 AM Adult transfer student [Re: AZNpiano]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Hi again, AZN,

I have no intention of stirring up the hornets’ nest again!

I did not intend my response to your question to be rude, in any way. You did, however, ask for my opinion:
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
What may not be quite so obvious, however, is this: When a teacher encourages student communication through eMail, that teacher is self-undermining a certain degree of her/his authority. S/he has metaphorically begun to socialize with her/his students.

. . . I keep e-mail correspondence with several students, and they're 20-25 years younger than I am. Am I "self-undermining" by e-mailing them their assignments?

So, what should I do instead? Use postal mail? Call them and leave a voice message?


With my afterthought here:
Originally Posted By: LoPresti
And I can not help asking the obvious question: Why would it be YOU who calls THEM for their assignments? Why wouldn’t the Student phone the Teacher? Not looking for an answer - it is a rhetorical question, which might warrant some reflection.

. . . I make a couple of assumptions, which could be incorrect.
First, since you are eMailing some students, I assumed they were either adults or young adults.
My second assumption was that, since the students in question are either adults or young adults, why are THEY not responsible for knowing (or finding out) their own assignments?

If that is an area you do not wish to explore, it is completely up to you, obviously.
Ed
_________________________
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#1957217 - 09/11/12 12:42 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 1304
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
I talked to him today, he seems alright.

Bravo!
_________________________
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

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#1957238 - 09/11/12 02:12 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
EzPiano, I wrote a series of possibilities that can happen with a transfer student at the beginning of this thread. I don't know if it was ever read. The thing I have wondered all along because I think it is important is whether this student simply says his former teacher is bad, or whether this student talks about things he was taught (or not taught) which may now need to be straightened out. It goes back to my first post.

My thought was also that if things need to be addressed that a student was formerly taught, that the teacher will see that in his playing or answers to questions the teacher asks him. Therefore the student does not need to tell the new teacher about the old one, because the new teacher will be able to know what he has been taught or mistaught, and hasn't been taught.

The underlying thought is that if a student knows that his teacher can find this in his performance, then he can settle down to his work because there is no need to talk about what went on before.

Does this make sense?

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#1957262 - 09/11/12 03:28 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
Thank you keystring.
In fact, his previous teacher is a great teacher. After my assessment during interview and 7 lessons, all I can say is that he do not have problem in learning piano, putting effort into practice at home. He has good aptitude when it comes to piano.
When he said bad things about his previous teacher, it is also unrelated to piano or music. It is just basically trash talking her personality, dress, house etc...I am not sure why are these matters.
The problem now is that he is offering too much information not related to piano or music to me. He is doing that during lesson time and outside lesson time through phone calls, emails, and text message. During lesson time I have mostly under control because I keep on teaching and there is nothing he can do. After lesson time, I feel that he should know what kind of information should present or not.
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#1957263 - 09/11/12 03:37 AM Re: Adult transfer student [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: Irvine, CA
I mean, something has to be done by email, something has to be done by face to face. For example, if I email him about my talk of the policy, he would probably feel offend. However, I did talk to him in person today saying that I will be sending a policy to him, I hope he can evaluate the policy and my teaching and decide if he wants to continue with me or not. I also emphasis that since it is my studio, I like my students to obey my rules and if he break the rules, I will give him two weeks notice to terminate our lessons.
For example, there are three communication paths after lesson between teacher and student, they are: email, text message, and phone call. He did call me just to tell me that he will wash his hand before lesson from now on. (Hello? really? you need to call me to tell me that?) I did not pick up the phone, then he immediately leave three text message to tell me that. I mean, he he really needs to tell me that, I really prefer in the form of email instead of phone call or text message. Phone call is really for real emergency such as he has accident on the way here and he cannot make it, so he call me to inform me he is not coming. Text message is for communication that need response less than 30 minutes, for example, if he is in the piano bookstore now and he is wonder if he can get a book name XYZ. Email is for everything, I do not mind knowing that he will wash his hands before lesson, but seriously, calling and texting me to tell me that? I think is too much.
What can I say? I think he is serious about his piano studies, but too serious? Ah, confused!
_________________________
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Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Watch the introduction video on YouTube
@ http://bit.ly/Ready123

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