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#1954116 - 09/05/12 05:20 AM List (MSRP) price vs. sale price
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Two questions:

1) I wonder if anyone has ever walked into a piano store and bought their chosen instrument at the list price (i.e., MSRP), and, isn't this what the store would want the customer to do?

2) Or, if a customer points to a piano and says, "I would like to buy that [whatever model] for x-dollars"... at the listed (price tag) MSRP:

Would the sales person offer any discount of their own, even if the customer intended to pay the list price?

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#1954152 - 09/05/12 08:31 AM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
#1 - Has anyone paid MSRP? Sure! (But not me.)
#2 - Has anyone made an offer? Yes, of course!

If a google world has taught us anything, then we must conclude that any question of the form "has anyone done XYZ" will get some yes answers.

Perhaps you could rephrase the questions to elicit something more useful?

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#1954168 - 09/05/12 09:22 AM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
mrsneakyz28 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 26
Well MSRP is just what the manufacturer suggests. Which is why you first shop around to see if you can find that particular model under the list price, or if it can be found on sale. Even better so if it's on sale and you happen to have a coupon offer from an email or similar and can get an additional 10-15% off would be your best bet.

I bought a brand new Nord Piano 2 just when it was released for $300 off the list price this way. I bought a yamaha ydp-181 for $650 off the list price just because it was presidents day I think and the salesman gave me an additional $100 off to make the deal.

So yes you can make deals, or you can find them , just depends where you are shopping. The only reason I can see to pay msrp for something is if there is an incentive for doing so, or you need to shop at a specific store because of location, convenience, or financing. (I have financed several items at list price) just nothing over $1000.


Edited by mrsneakyz28 (09/05/12 09:23 AM)

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#1954319 - 09/05/12 03:07 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: mrsneakyz28]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
Originally Posted By: mrsneakyz28
So yes you can make deals, or you can find them , just depends where you are shopping. The only reason I can see to pay msrp for something is if there is an incentive for doing so, or you need to shop at a specific store because of location, convenience, or financing. (I have financed several items at list price) just nothing over $1000.


It appears that I will be buying from a local store since they are the only one that can handle a trade-in for two other pianos I am exchanging for the new digital. Also, they can carry out the trade-ins so I am not involved with trying to sell the stuff on my own, as one of the pianos is a heavy acoustic upright.

May have to succumb to their MSRP as the dealer ultimately makes their decision anyway, regardless of what the customer might ask for. I don't forsee a dealer discount of more than $1,000 (as this is what I had on the V-Piano) as I ended up paying $5,995 instead of $6,999.

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#1954326 - 09/05/12 03:15 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
The dealer does not set the price. Price is set when both parties agree.

I would never "succumb" to anyone's MSRP. That's a sucker deal. I don't ever HAVE TO do anything. If the deal is wrong, I won't do the deal. And MSRP is always wrong.

Also, there's always another party who can handle your trade-in. Make it a donation and take a tax deduction (which is what I did three years ago). Or set a selling price so low that anyone could afford to buy and haul away your acoustic.

BTW, you didn't say how much your selling that acoustic for. Has the dealer agreed on a price?

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#1954341 - 09/05/12 03:42 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
All I can say here is that the dealer is going to work both of my trade-ins towards the final invoice price, and, as long as its in the $4,500 to $5,000 range its okay by me. Less is always better, but I am not counting on it.

I am sure the dealer is going to offer some kind of discount on the MSRP, and, if this final amount falls below $5K then I take it. Whether or not that makes me out to be a sucker because I paid too much, I don't care.

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#1954375 - 09/05/12 04:43 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: pv88
All I can say here is that the dealer is going to work both of my trade-ins towards the final invoice price, and, as long as its in the $4,500 to $5,000 range its okay by me. Less is always better, but I am not counting on it.

I am sure the dealer is going to offer some kind of discount on the MSRP, and, if this final amount falls below $5K then I take it. Whether or not that makes me out to be a sucker because I paid too much, I don't care.


In the end it's your money for you to do as you see fit with, but the threads on this forum have given me the impression that the "normal" selling price of the piano that you're looking at (the new Kawai, correct?) sells in the $3,500 range without any trade-ins.

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#1954392 - 09/05/12 05:21 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: ONfrank]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
@ONfrank,

Thanks for your reply, as do you think the new Kawai CA95 can be sold at $3,500?

The best I could do anywhere (online / retail store) was a $1,000 discount for the Roland V-Piano, just as an example. That is, I paid $5,995 versus the list price of $6,999.

I doubt that there are any dealers that would offer $3,500.

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#1954414 - 09/05/12 06:05 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
ONfrank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 98
The V-Piano seems to be a different beast as it is sold at regular online outlets thus already discounted. It is listed online at many retail shops in Canada for $6100.

I'm just looking at the prices paid thread that is stickied and the predecessor CA93 has a low of $3,000 but with most settling in the $3,500 range. It can't hurt to ask, the worst they could do is say no.


Edited by ONfrank (09/05/12 06:08 PM)

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#1954435 - 09/05/12 06:57 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
The only way to find ANY piano for $3500 is to OFFER $3500. No one "finds" discounts. No dealer "gives" discounts. You have to make your own. The only way to make a deal is to make an offer.

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#1954516 - 09/05/12 10:40 PM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
Jadis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/12
Posts: 24
Here was my experience:

I walked into the store one day I asked what the MSRP of the piano was. The salesman replied $5500. I then specifically asked how much he would actually sell it to me for; he said $5000. I thanked him and left. Two weeks later I returned with my family to check the piano out again and without me asking the salesman said he would sell it to me for $4680.

Finally, I came in 4 weeks after that and told him I wanted to buy the piano. I said, "So about the price..." and before I even finished the salesman said $4000 was the lowest he could do. I accepted and I don't think I could have gotten a lower price anywhere.

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#1954557 - 09/06/12 01:11 AM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: Jadis]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2474
@Jadis,

Nice story there, as you did really well to get a $1,500 discount. As that would be just about right, if my dealer did likewise.

$1,500 is $500 better than most online discounts I have seen.

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#1954607 - 09/06/12 05:32 AM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3667
Loc: North Carolina
I don't think about "discounts". They don't really exist. The only number that DOES exist is the selling price.

Example: I bought a piano four years ago. The dealer said the MSRP was $3600. He offered $2900. I offered $2300. Sold. So, was the "discount" $1300? Nope. Here's why ...

Suppose, instead, he said the MSRP was $4600. And suppose the agreed price was still $2300. In this case have I done better, getting a $2000 discount? NO! It's still $2300. There is no such thing as a discount. There's the selling price ... and nothing else.

So I don't play the discount game. It's a fiction planted by dealers to appeal to customers. But in the end, discounts don't exist. The only figure that matters is the final, total price.

IIRC, at issue is the Kawai CA95. Larry Fine's "Piano Buyer" guide says the MSRP is $5745, and the "estimated price" at $4536. The latter is a sample (fictitious) un-negotiated price. It's 21% below the MSRP.

But what will the dealer accept? He might say $4500, or any other number. But you cannot take his word at this point. You'll only know for sure what he'll accept if you make an offer. A lower offer.

Since you can often get a piano at 30% to 35% below MSRP, I'd offer $3750 (35% below MSRP), and accept a counteroffer of $4000 (30% below). Why pay more?

It's sometimes said here that dealer X is the only dealer in the area that sells a particular brand or model. And the conclusion reached is that the dealer enjoys a monopoly status, and that the price will necessarily be higher than might otherwise be the case.

Not so! A dealer always has a competitor. That competitor is SOMETIMES another local dealer. But lacking that, there's still (and always) another competitor in town. That's you. The dealer has to compete for your business. If the price is wrong, he's not competing. And he loses the sale.

Always be a competitor!

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#1954754 - 09/06/12 11:04 AM Re: List (MSRP) price vs. sale price [Re: pv88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
That's true. I was tempted to say that the only real discounts that apply are in piano stores that are liquidating and going out of business, but one just went out of business near me and even in their final days open they refused to consider any less than $9,850 for their AG N2. So I guess even in that circumstance there are no real discounts.

Maybe if a relative owned the store...

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