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#1960568 - 09/18/12 09:27 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2370
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
I think you're spearheading the operation, Jeff. Hopefully some of the catcher-uppers will offer something we've missed in the previous pieces or join in wherever you are. There does seem to be a lot of views for the number of participants. Be careful, Jeff, they may just be waiting to pounce on your next mis-step!

What to expect?

Typically only the first movement will be in sonata form. Certainly with these sonatinas that's the case.

The final movement is likely to be fast but not as intellectually engaging as a sonata form movement. The middle movement should present a gentler contrast usually with a change of key but don't expect much modulation.

Typically, and in a very general sense, the first movement will present you with technical fingerwork (scale, arpeggio and broken chord work) and architectural passages, pointing out themes and so on. The middle movement will offer an opportunity to develop your cantabile and the final movement to test your velocity and articulation.

There shouldn't be any exposition, development and recapitulation in the sense of a sonata form movement but you are likely to see a simple ABA form where the middle will be a contrast to the beginning and end. In Haydn's sonata the double bar in the menuet signalled a binary form movement rather than sonata form.

For the sonatina to have unity there should be an overlap of material but it's more likely in the outer movements. The middle movement will offer more contrast and may not be recognisably from the same sonatina. Of course, you are free to find something you can latch on to. It may be a very simple thing like one of the four-note figures. If I were writing a middle movement I would look at the jump from B to G in M1 or the two G's after the B, or even all three notes together as food for thought or inspiration.

But I'm not Clementi. smile

There may be nothing more than that he felt the movements went well together or that he composed them on the same day or after listening to the same jingle on his local radio station. smile
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#1960597 - 09/18/12 10:25 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Registered: 05/29/12
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Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Be careful, Jeff, they may just be waiting to pounce on your next mis-step!


OK, thanks for the added pressure.

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The middle movement will offer more contrast and may not be recognisably from the same sonatina. Of course, you are free to find something you can latch on to. It may be a very simple thing like one of the four-note figures.


I shall gingerly pace along here and see if I can identify what Mr. Clementi was up to and will advise.

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

There may be nothing more than that he felt the movements went well together or that he composed them on the same day or after listening to the same jingle on his local radio station. smile


Yes, I am sure it was something like that. For some reason TV commercial jingles always stick in my head, so quite likely he had the same problem; "Buy ... Mennen"
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#1960694 - 09/18/12 02:19 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
Greener Offline

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I am surprised they call this movement Allegretto as it does not sound "lively and fast" to me.

We are in a new time signature 3/4 (here we go waltzing again. Well not quite but it does have a dancing type of lightness to it.)

We start off in C major and appears we move to G major (wait ... A minor again, sounds minor) just after the double bar and then until the middle of m16. Then back to C major for the duration.

Although we are in different time signature, the stepping down (M7) down, up, down, up, down (M8-m14), sounds like it may be coming from the same idea of M20 second half and M21 of first movement. He uses this again in M23 and M27.

Otherwise, everything else sounds and feels quite unique in this movement. Although M3 and 1/2 of 4 (and used elsewhere) reminds me of the theme from the Jolly Green Giant.

I knew I'd heard this somewhere before and turns out it was from my regular morning programming laugh .

Whoops. Scratch the A minor ... thinking more on this.


Edited by Greener (09/18/12 02:25 PM)
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#1960695 - 09/18/12 02:26 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Greener, how are you confusing G major and A minor? Or does it have sections of both? (Must.Look.At.Score.)
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#1960720 - 09/18/12 03:38 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: PianoStudent88]
Greener Offline

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Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Greener, how are you confusing G major and A minor? Or does it have sections of both? (Must.Look.At.Score.)


It must be G Major (F#). I was confusing with the G# to think A minor. But, G# right away goes natural again, so left with F# and clearly not A minor. Although, it sounds minor to me. But, no minor will fit, so I am now thinking it must be G major.
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#1960728 - 09/18/12 03:54 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Have now looked at score. Greener, it's A minor and then G major.

Clementi Sonatina 2, 2nd movement.

Mm. 1-8 in C major.

Mm. 9-10 in A minor. Confirmed by chords: E Am, E Am: dominant, tonic, dominant, tonic.

Mm. 11-16 (first beat) in G major. Confirmed by chords in m.11 D G: dominant, tonic, and by closing chords in m.15 (last 2 beats) into m.16 (first beat): G/D, D, G.

M. 16 modulates back to C major.

Mm. 17-28 in C major again -- an expanded version of mm. 1-8.

Although this movement is marked Allegretto just like the first movement, in the recording it is played more slowly and meets the aural expectation of fast-slow-fast for the movements.
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#1960744 - 09/18/12 04:39 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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I see we have our harmony whizz kid back again! smile

Whenever you see a sharped accidental, Jeff, it's usually the seventh or a passing chromaticism. As we're in C the next sharp we can expect will be F# (the seventh of G major) or G# (the seventh of A minor).

Allegretto is between Andante, walking pace, and Allegro, running speed. So this is a jaunty pace like a child skipping through a forest. The posted recording drags far too much for my liking.

This is a touch too much but closer to my preference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t37NIFEJX8E

I see no real connexion with the first movement. If I play the first note of each pair, E-C-G, E-C-G it reminds me of the figure in M1 of the Allegro but it's distant.

We have the antecedent in M1-4 and the consequent in M5-8, a middle-8 at M9 and a reprise at M17.

After the first three measures of the middle section we start a climb to the climax of the piece on the G then begin the stepping top and bottom in M16 to the return of C major in M17. M24 is a nice touch before a repeat of the consequent to close.
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#1960750 - 09/18/12 04:58 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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There is perhaps a harmonic link to the first movement: A minor then G major in the middle section.

I've looked at the places at the beginning and end of the Development in movement 1 where I heard curious things, and I'm not sure now if I was hearing key (beginning) and cadence (end), or if I was hearing chord quality. The beginning gives us a dim7 chord when the LH comes in. The end gives us a dominant 7 chord (open, as Richard points out). Both of those are curious things, so I'm glad I heard something curious at those points: one as an odd chord, and the other as an odd cadence.
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#1960767 - 09/18/12 05:41 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: PianoStudent88]
JimF Offline
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I'm still poking my nose under the tent when I get a chance.

Right now my problem is that my teacher has my plate very full (partly thanks to my mentioning the Moonlight thread to her...bang...assigned) You can bet I won't be mentioning Clementi 2 at my next lesson smile
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#1960877 - 09/18/12 09:47 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Glad to see everyone still milling about.

Afraid I need to disclose more of my elementary understanding; This time re: time signatures. I never really knew what they meant. Just pretended I did. I figure it is about time I close yet another gap.

We just had 3/4 time, so three beats to a bar, but not quite sure what the 4 is all about at all. Now we are heading into 3/8 time. So, still three beats to a bar, but no clue of what the 8 is all about.

In first movement we had 2 beats to a bar, and is over 4 so understand this is cut time.

Any quick insight appreciated.

No more digression though ... promise.
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#1960884 - 09/18/12 09:54 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Offline
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Time signature. There is simple time, and the "other one" which I learned as "compound time" but apparently that name is in dispute. Erm?

Simple time is like 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 2/8, 3/8, 4/8

The top number means how many beats there are in a measure. The bottom number means which note value gets a beat. So in 2/4 time there are two beats to a measure, often getting a rhythm of [STRONG weak]. The quarter (1/4) note gets the beat. 3/4 time has three beats to a measure, again the quarter note gets the beat, [STRONG weak weak]. 3/8 also has three beats to a measure, but the eighth note gets the beat. 4/4 or 4/8 has four beats, typically [STRONG weak Middle weak], with the quarter note, and the eighth note, getting the beat, respectively.

The relationship of the other notes relative to each other still stays the same. So in 4/8 time, if the eighth note gets the beat, there are 4 eighth notes to a measure, 2 quarter notes to a measure (they're twice as long), etc.

The other kind of time: 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 often goes in triplets and I learned to call this compound time. For example:
6/8 (1-2-3) (4-5-6) eighth notes = 2 beats of 3 sets of triplets.
9/8 (1-2-3) (4-5-6) (7-8-9) = 3 beats X 3 sets of triplets.
12/8 has four sets.

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#1960888 - 09/18/12 10:09 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: keystring]
Greener Offline

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WOW, and I thought it was going to be a simple explanation.

Thanks KS. I will do some pondering on this and see if it starts to gel as I think of it in terms of how it sounds.
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#1960894 - 09/18/12 10:20 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Offline
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Fire away with questions if they come up. Actually I can make it simpler. For the time signatures in question, the top number says how many beats per measure, and the bottom says which note value gets the beat. End of story. smile

Wikki article


Edited by keystring (09/18/12 10:32 PM)

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#1961081 - 09/19/12 11:34 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Originally Posted By: zrtf90

I see no real connexion with the first movement. If I play the first note of each pair, E-C-G, E-C-G it reminds me of the figure in M1 of the Allegro but it's distant.

We have the antecedent in M1-4 and the consequent in M5-8, a middle-8 at M9 and a reprise at M17.


Forgot about the antecedent, consequent and reprise connotations so will try to keep these in mind moving forward. PS88 raises an interesting point regarding the keys transition and harmonic comparison to first Allegretto. Otherwise though, seems Mr. Clementi was in a new frame of mind and the only clear common thread is that it was written by the same hand.

Lets see what 3rd movement has in store for us. Much larger it appears, but again no repeats. In 3/8 time now and lots of triplet use is apparent.

What happened to your performance posting Keystring? I liked it too and was about to go back to it for this further analysis, but ... see no longer there.

Any tips, cautions or general things to keep an eye out for in 3rd movement?

Or, is there any more we should discuss on 2, before we move along?
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#1961090 - 09/19/12 11:58 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Get straight on with the third movement, Jeff, and we'll have a look at the three together at the end.

What you should be looking out for is everything on the checklist and anything else of interest. Keep an open mind, but an active one! smile
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#1961167 - 09/19/12 03:33 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Having a go at the Allegro:

I believe this movement is in Sonata format;

Three themes;
1) M1-m8
2) M9-m12
3) M13-m16

M1-m11 repeats in M17-m27, then we have a tie taken from theme 3 in m28-29.

Overall I think we have
Exposition M1-M48 (G Major)
Development M49-M74 (D Major)
Recapitulation M75-end (G Major)

Correction: D Major begins at M35 or perhaps even sooner at M32.

I wanted to do a little more comparison on the measures M32-M48. I was thinking of starting the development here, but this material I believe is just a re-work from earlier exposition themes.

At any rate, kind of rushing to get this in now, as I need to skip out and will not see what you think of this until later this evening.

Hopefully, I'm not totally out to lunch again.


Edited by Greener (09/19/12 03:42 PM)
Edit Reason: Key change sooner then previously posted
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#1961221 - 09/19/12 05:29 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greener

What happened to your performance posting Keystring?

I listened to it to the end and changed my mind at the third movement. What seemed expressive at first created doubts in my mind later on.

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#1961227 - 09/19/12 05:42 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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I don't think it's in sonata-allegro format because there is no tonic to dominant movement in what might be called the exposition, mm.1-31.

I see it in ternary form: ABA. Or more precisely, ABA', since the second time through A changes a little bit at the end.

A: mm.1-31. G major.
B: mm.32-74. D major.
A': mm.75-111. G major.

A few chromatics thrown in for interesting effect.

Unlike Greener, I count mm.31-48 as part of B rather than A because this material is not repeated in the final A' section.

Parts A and A' include a few A harmonic minor scales, reminiscent of the A minor to G major moves in the previous movements.

Part B includes some G#'s, flirting with the secondary dominant key of A major, but I think it remains a flirtation and never establishes the key.

Part B, like the middle section of the previous movement, ends on a D7 chord. There is a big pause before the resolution to G at the beginning of part A.
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#1961257 - 09/19/12 07:09 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Not totally out to lunch, Jeff, but still having conceptual difficulties. From my post at the top of the page:
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
The final movement is likely to be fast but not as intellectually engaging as a sonata form movement...There shouldn't be any exposition, development and recapitulation in the sense of a sonata form movement but you are likely to see a simple ABA form where the middle will be a contrast to the beginning and end.

We don't need much analysis to determine where the exposition ends and the development begins. We just look for the double repeat bar.

There we can expect to see a final cadence in a contrasting key, usually the dominant so in this case we can expect to see a final cadence in D. At the double repeat bar.

And the development section begins at the double repeat bar.

Beethoven's sonatas do not repeat the second half but early Haydn, Mozart and Clementi sonatas do.

How can we tell Sonata form from Binary form? In sonata form the material heard in the contrasting key, all of it, will be heard again in the tonic key in the recapitulation, usually preceded by a restatement of the tonic material as well, albeit slightly modified.

What you do have is the keys, themes and main sections.
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Yes, PianoStudent88, this is simple ternary form, ABA. The showmanship finish is hardly grounds for the extra apostrophe in my book however.

The first verse is four lines, M1-4, slightly modified at M9-12, all tonic-dominant harmony, a third line in Am - D and a fourth line on the dominant returning to the second verse at M17.

Verse two closes with a V-I cadence at the end of a seven measure line 3 (or 2+5 for lines 3 and 4).

The B section begins at M32. M40 serves to break up more of the four squaredness. I agree that the G major in M33 is the dominant of D not tonic as the A7 in M35 reveals. M49-74 is the second half of the B section and again M73/4 breaks up the four-square feel.

All the accidentals in A are pure colour.

The first two lines remind me so much of the second movement. Play the first note of each pair in M1-4 of the Allegretto and then the first 8 measures here. Also the rhythm in M41-48 recalls the skipping feel.

And the first two phrases of the opening movement and this ending with that same rhythm using here the four note figure from M9 of the opening movement.
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#1961312 - 09/19/12 10:02 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Not totally out to lunch, Jeff, but still having conceptual difficulties. From my post at the top of the page:
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
The final movement is likely to be fast but not as intellectually engaging as a sonata form movement...There shouldn't be any exposition, development and recapitulation in the sense of a sonata form movement but you are likely to see a simple ABA form where the middle will be a contrast to the beginning and end.

Yes, I recall this note for expectations on 2nd movement, and wish I had read this again for this movement. I actually went searching for insight that might help me avoid doom, but somehow missed this and rather came across another note somewhere in this thread that led me to think that we could very well come across a full sonata form movement again. That is what I thought I was seeing.
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

How can we tell Sonata form from Binary form? In sonata form the material heard in the contrasting key, all of it, will be heard again in the tonic key in the recapitulation, usually preceded by a restatement of the tonic material as well, albeit slightly modified.

OK, rules are good. So, should be able to know when we are seeing a true Sonata form now (albeit not likely to be overly obvious) when it is encountered.
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The first verse is four lines, M1-4, slightly modified at M9-12, all tonic-dominant harmony, a third line in Am - D and a fourth line on the dominant returning to the second verse at M17.
.
.
Play the first note of each pair in M1-4 of the Allegretto and then the first 8 measures here. Also the rhythm in M41-48 recalls the skipping feel.
.
.
And the first two phrases of the opening movement and this ending with that same rhythm using here the four note figure from M9 of the opening movement.

Not sure I am totally getting what you are meaning in the first phrase here. At any rate, I am past my piano curfew now, but will come back to this, at the keyboard in the AM, to review everything and be sure it comes clear.
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#1961421 - 09/20/12 06:17 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
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Originally Posted By: Greener
Not sure I am totally getting what you are meaning in the first phrase here.

My first phrase that you quoted, "The first verse is four lines..." or Clementi's first phrase?

My first phrase:
I see this like a sung verse.
Line 1 = M1-4, line 2 = M5-8, line 3 = M9-12 (or two short lines?) and line 4 = M13-16. The end of lines 3 and 4 are modified in the second verse for leading into the B section.

Sidebar: If this were sonata form the end of the first 'verse' would lead into the second subject in D major. If I were composing this I would change M16 from A-B-D-C-B-A to A-B-A-G-F#-E and lead instead to D major probably with a reverse/inverse of M13-14 leading up to the inverse of M41-48.

Clementi's first phrase:
This would be so much easier on a piano but...

Look at the first movement and consider the bars now in 3/8 time and drop the last quaver in each bar (including the upbeat before M1).
M1 is now D (1/4 note) B (1/8 note)
M2 is now G (dotted 1/4)
M3 is now D-D-D (1/8 notes)
M4 is now B (dotted 1/4)

D---B, G, D-D-D, B;
D---B, G, D-D-D, A;

Or play it like the Allegro:

D-D-D, B-G-D, D-D-D, B

Or with the four-note figure:
D-D-D, B-G-D, D-GABG-A
______________________

For the second movement replace the paired notes with crotchets:
E-C-G, E-C-G, E-A-D, B-C.

Or add the figure:
E-C-G, E-C-G, E-A-DCBD-C

Or try the figure inverted:
E-C-G, E-C-G, E-A-BCDB-C
_______________________

Now play the final Allegro M1-4 and replace the four-note figure with a single G (1/8th note):
G-G-G, A-D-C, B---G, A

Now play it like the second movement as above:
G-D-B, G-D-B, G-D-B, G-A.

Are you getting it now?
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#1961468 - 09/20/12 09:06 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Registered: 05/29/12
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It took me awhile (was not from a lack of trying) to get this. But, yes I believe I get in now. At first I felt more commonality with these measures to the first movement. My trouble I think, was interpreting and applying everything correctly. Yes, sorry I am a little slow. After re-reading and also previous quote below (to make sure I was on correct movement/measures) I believe I've got it ... I think I've got it ... "The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain"


Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The first two lines remind me so much of the second movement. Play the first note of each pair in M1-4 of the Allegretto and then the first 8 measures here. Also the rhythm in M41-48 recalls the skipping feel.
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#1961493 - 09/20/12 10:43 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Richard, I don't get what you're getting at in your last post. It seems like there are only so many ways to put together notes if you're going to deedle about on basically the notes of a chord, so some similarities are going to happen just because there aren't very many combinatorial possibilities. Even so, I don't even see the similarity between the different sequences of notes you're highlighting.
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#1961494 - 09/20/12 10:45 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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There's more, of course, that I hear but it's so hard when I can't just sit at the piano and play it for you.

These movements belong very much together but it's very difficult to point out the unifying features when you have to massage the notes so much to explain it.

The thing to take away from this is that there's a lot of unity in the work. The three movements belong together. You might have to sit down with some of the elements and work on the first note of each bar, the notes on the beat or some such alteration to hear the main linking ideas and play around with them, improvising and such. You may pick up what the composer didn't intend but it all helps to present the piece in your own interpretation.

Sometimes I feel More familiar with a work when I've tried to re-compose it on my own or in my own way. It also helps me understand what the composer has gone through and mostly see what he probably came up with and rejected. Typically my ideas will be the ones the composer left on the cutting room floor, but still it helps me see.
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#1961503 - 09/20/12 11:12 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
[...]when you have to massage the notes so much to explain it.

Sounds like Rorschach ink blots to me. I will look/listen closer, though.

You know what this means? It means I'm going to have to go back to the discussions of Clementi 1 and the Haydn and see if I can understand how to find this thematic unity there also, to get practice in this. Rats.
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#1961504 - 09/20/12 11:19 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2370
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Richard, I don't get what you're getting at in your last post. It seems like there are only so many ways to put together notes if you're going to deedle about on basically the notes of a chord, so some similarities are going to happen just because there aren't very many combinatorial possibilities. Even so, I don't even see the similarity between the different sequences of notes you're highlighting.

Do you hear any unity between the three movements?

My notes aren't to manipulate the notes to fit but to help you hear what I'm hearing in them, isolating what are, for me, the unifying characteristics.

What I hear is:
1st Movement:
D---B, G, D-D-D, B = B-G-D

2nd Movement:
E-C-G, E-C-G, E-A-D, B-C = E-C-G, B-C

3rd Movement:
G-G-G, A-D-C, B---G A = G-D-B, G-A

The themes in these three movements are variations on the same skeleton. I hear it. I'm having difficulty conveying what I'm hearing.

Not to worry. It needn't detain us.
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#1961510 - 09/20/12 11:30 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1201
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The thing to take away from this is that there's a lot of unity in the work. The three movements belong together. You might have to sit down with some of the elements and work on the first note of each bar, the notes on the beat or some such alteration to hear the main linking ideas and play around with them, improvising and such. You may pick up what the composer didn't intend but it all helps to present the piece in your own interpretation.


Agree. I hear the unity and they work nicely together.

Working through these exercises I have actually needed to play by reading. It helps me immensely of course, to have a clear recollection of how it goes in having listened to it so much.

My experience is that once I become really entrenched in a piece (for me this only comes with playing it) will I start to hear more things/similarities (likely plenty more) come to light.

From what I have gone over so far, this one does not appear like it would be too tough to tackle. And will probably be even better practice for my reading then Bach, where I truly need to go at a snails pace until I memorize it.

Of course, I will need to be selective on the ones I choose, as will never keep up with all of them. But think I will add this one to the list as the Bach is under control now and just bringing it up to presentation standard.

From an analysis stand point, at least for me, I think his one was a good one to do. I did not feel as far out of my element as I had with others. So, feeling good again. Albeit, confidence is not full steam yet.

Is there any more to discuss on this one? Or, is everyone still game to move along?
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#1961513 - 09/20/12 11:34 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
I don't hear any particular disunity, but I don't hear anything that ties these together more than just being in the general genre of music deedling about up and down in a fairly conservative harmonic language.

ETA: Greener and Richard, in addition to hearing the unity between the three movements of the Sonatina 2, do you hear these as being different from the Sonatina 1? I have the feeling that if I jumbled up the movements of these six Sonatinas, this type of picking out of notes could find similarities between any two chosen at random.


Edited by PianoStudent88 (09/20/12 11:37 AM)
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#1961514 - 09/20/12 11:42 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: PianoStudent88]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2370
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Sounds like Rorschach ink blots to me.

In a lot of ways, it is. But there is definitely stuff there to hear.

If you spend more time listening to how the composer has manipulated the exposition material in the development section you will have a better chance at hearing 'between the lines' in the other movements.

Even if you don't always hear it, just trying will improve the ability to hear.

Twenty years ago they started producing pictures of what looked like geometric patterns but they had other images concealed within them. Some people could see the other images, others couldn't. I guess this is a similar situation.
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Richard

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#1961521 - 09/20/12 11:50 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
Oh yes, those. I could never see the pictures.

I'll give this a try, though, looking for patterns and relationships.
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Ebaug(maj7)

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