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#1950583 - 08/28/12 08:37 PM P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
Just wondering what people are thinking and maybe what you would do in my situation:

Got the PX130 in April, what I like about it better than the P95 is that it has the lineouts, 4 layers and better speakers. I do like the Rhodes better.

Was leaning towards keeping it and using it for open mics, etc..

*Likely adding the PX350 as I will be able to get it for $679.99. I like the idea of the simulated ebony and ivory, 4 speakers and more sounds to play with.

Now, I do not view myself as someone who will need 3 slab DP's.

So i put some feelers out regarding the P95. I could
a. Just sell the P95 and keep the stand and pedals and replace it with a 105 or
b. Try and sell the whole thing, but I would need to take the stand and pedals apart. Does anyone think it would ruin it?
I sell primarily on Craigslist and will not have any strangers in my home whatsoever.

I could probably get $200 for the P95 at GC, but haven't inquired about the stand and pedals:

*The big question is given I would get a PX350, and have a PX130, would I even want to play a P105? PX350 would be newer (not always better of course) sample, and would offer more variety than the 105.

On the other hand, my cost to upgrade to the 105 would be less than $300.
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#1950621 - 08/28/12 10:31 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2711
Loc: Atlanta, GA
The PX-350 is still a mystery. The P105 easy to imagine with the same GHS action but Pure CF samples from the higher Yamaha lines. The line outs and now 14 tones are a big plus over the P95 and strong competition for the PX-150, but the PX-350 offers a ton more. I'm excited about the option to record audio to usb thumb drive.

I don't think you can make plans until you play it, but the mystery of the 350 is exciting! That price is cheap, maybe some special pre-order deal?
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1950647 - 08/28/12 11:22 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: PianoWorksATL]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
Hi Sam, I'll probably have to end up waiting to play both; but GC/MF tend to have 15% off coupons. The logical thing would be to sell both current boards and then do the upgrades.

On a side note, I saw rolandconnect.com is claiming new product announcements in 2 days, but I do not know if they are doing any pianos
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#1956833 - 09/10/12 09:12 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
play-piano.info Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/10/12
Posts: 2
Hi,

where did you get this price quote from if I may ask?

I am seriously looking for a PX-350 as it looks like the perfect second board combining great action, OK sounds, absolute portability and an unbeatable price tag. I really loved the flexibility of the 330 only did not dig the key feeling, too shiny and slippery.
Really looking forward to the new Casio one!!! But your price looks awesome, way lower than what I saw.
_________________________
Piano lessons and tipps online: www.play-piano.info

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#1956863 - 09/10/12 10:20 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
This guy likes the P-105:
http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2012/07/review-yamaha-p105-digital-piano-very.html

And he seems to REALLY like the new Casios:
http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2012/07/review-casio-px350-px150-privia-digital.html

But he doesn't exactly put his finger on why the Casios sound better to him, so it boils down to something of a "trust me on this". He has pretty pictures of their corporate offices though.

I just downloaded the P-105 manual and it seems like typical Yamaha: no mention of layers (which can often mean a single layer) and not enough buttons / feedback on the panel which leads to very confusing unlabeled dual use combinations and awkward involvement of the piano keys. One may have to keep a dead tree version of the manual nearby, and it probably forgets the settings once powered off. Their generally horrible UIs are a big reason to stay away from their stuff. That, and their product development for the past several years seems to be in some strange kind of stasis - which in the DP world is really saying something.
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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#1956980 - 09/10/12 02:32 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
PianoWorksATL Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2711
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Possum P95
Hi Sam, I'll probably have to end up waiting to play both; but GC/MF tend to have 15% off coupons.
Officially and in the fine print, those 15% off coupons exclude Yamaha & Casio in all that I've ever read. Not that it doesn't happen with gear, but try to get 15% off a Mac now that they are Authorized Apple dealers and they'll happily read you the fine print.

More valuable reviews should be available in about a month once they hit the shelves. We'll display those models side by side among others. Until then, it's all IM.
_________________________
Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#1957179 - 09/10/12 10:47 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Dewster. It's really frustrating that Yamaha wants to straddle too many price points and ends up not giving their best features in their boards. They could have easily done a lighter and slimmer DGX 640 with their P-105 which would have the same GHS action, better sound? and speakers? as also better polyphony with line outs included.

They could have added the ensemble features and a smaller screen from the DGX 640 (which gives it a better UI) and had a PX-350 competitor at $799. The P-105 already has a few rhythms and pianist styles. Adding an ensemble board / features would not have taken much more space or weight.


Edited by bsl100 (09/10/12 11:03 PM)

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#1957187 - 09/10/12 11:03 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: bsl100]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3226
Originally Posted By: bsl100
They could have easily done a lighter and slimmer DGX 640 with their P-105

It is very possible that, as designed, the P-105 will already be a better piano than the DGX-640.

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#1957214 - 09/11/12 12:26 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
I would say it's very likely the update to the YPG-640 will have the CF piano sample along with all the rhythms and accompaniment. The P105 seems like it will compete more with the Casio PX-150. Interestingly it does not look like Casio is interested in bringing back something similar to the DGX-640 unless the PX-350 is that answer.

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#1957225 - 09/11/12 01:29 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
The PX-350 is the answer to the DGX 640 in a lighter chasis. The UI of the DGX is much better though. Whereas, the PX has better connectivity and polyphony.

The P-105 could have been given a small screen and the bells and whistles of the DGX. The chasis would have still been light. It could then have been priced at $799 and would have been a great alternative to the PX-350.

As it stands it still seems a better alternative to the PX-150 (key action being acceptable).

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#1957270 - 09/11/12 04:05 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2401
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom


He's just selling but pretending to be an impartial source of advice - ignore this rubbish.

Possum, you say you sell via Craigslist but won't have strangers in your home. How does that work?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1957288 - 09/11/12 05:01 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: EssBrace]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
Originally Posted By: EssBrace


He's just selling but pretending to be an impartial source of advice - ignore this rubbish.

Possum, you say you sell via Craigslist but won't have strangers in your home. How does that work?


Hello, for 4 or 5 things, I would bring the items to Starbucks and plug them in (always with a power strip to protect them) and also bring a video of the item I took the day before.
It worked for some monitors,a digital recorder and a Fatar keyboard (the last one I just showed the video of where the red light was and had the person try the action before taking it out of my car).

I admit I did take less money on my Motif and Triton LE by going with them to GC directly, but I didn't have potential buyers for those.
Also, when dealing with craigslist you are able to tell who is legit and who isnt and you can google names etc.
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#1957290 - 09/11/12 05:03 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: EssBrace]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
Originally Posted By: EssBrace


He's just selling but pretending to be an impartial source of advice - ignore this rubbish.
\\

I agree- he says Yamaha is good but then goes on to push Casio. does this for every piano
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#1957291 - 09/11/12 05:09 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2401
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
For what it's worth the P105 looks like a very decent product to me. If I was in the market for a stage piano in this price range it would be at the top of my list to try out. The new Casios look very good too though. I just think there is an inherent trust or faith in Yamaha quality. We read of almost no problems with their main-stream products like P95, P155 and the Clavinovas (by problems I mean unreliability issues, I'm not saying it it isn't possible to be disappointed by them for any number of reasons!).
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1957339 - 09/11/12 09:14 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
One of the big things that bothers me about the P-105 ad copy is the term "Pure CF Sampling". What is it? I mean other than an indication that they sampled a CF piano? It says nothing about layers (which Yamaha used to mention in the past, and when they didn't it often meant single layer), or stretching (which only Kawai seems to mention), or sample lengths (which no one mentions).

Going by the flagship models CP1/50 data, the best we might hope for is 4-5 layers, 2:1 stretching, and really short bland sounding loop lengths. But looking at low end portable Yamahas like the P95 and NPV60/80 we might get one or two layers, 3:1 or 4:1 stretching, and short attack samples to go with those short loops.

Plus no display - is a $1 single line LCD display really too much to ask for when spending $600? Casio can do it at this price point, why can't Yamaha?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1957340 - 09/11/12 09:14 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: EssBrace]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Yamaha reliability has been a big plus. Also, the Yamaha universe is bigger and hence if you are using styles / rhythms, it becomes easier to share music.


Edited by bsl100 (09/11/12 09:21 AM)

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#1957352 - 09/11/12 09:37 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Possum P95
I agree- he says Yamaha is good but then goes on to push Casio. does this for every piano

I don't disagree that he's probably not impartial. But it's getting harder to recommend low-end Yamaha DPs, particularly with Casio's continued innovation and Yamaha's stasis. Yamaha could probably bat Casio away like a fly with a well designed loss-leader down there (but it would likely compete too heavily with their own products - the main reason we can't have nice things it seems).

Pianoteq could murder everyone (in their sleep) by putting PT4 on a small ARM Linux board. Has anyone been watching the small tablet market in China? Check this out:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/363163101/cheapest_and_latest_9_inch_tablet.html

A 9" touch tablet with 1.2 GHz ARM Cortex A8, 512MB DDR3, 8GB Flash, etc. for $60. Those Allwinner ARMs seem like a winner!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1957388 - 09/11/12 10:53 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: EssBrace]
badbob001 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: EssBrace

He's just selling but pretending to be an impartial source of advice - ignore this rubbish.

I have to admit that his seemingly favoritism for Casio over Yamaha has made me hold off on purchasing a Yamaha and waiting to see how the new Casios compare.

I am strongly turn off by his usual response to any questions via his blog or email: call me to discuss. It smells like the preamble to a sales pitch.

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#1957399 - 09/11/12 11:13 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Yamaha can really frustrate you with their product differentiation.

Imagine the 76 key NP-V80 with GHS keys and a lesser layer P-155 sound. Maybe give it a 3 layer sound. Add line outs / MIDI connectors. You'll have a killer combination. Slim, lightweight board which will not cannibalize the P-155 which would have their premium 88 GH keys and 4 layer sound.


Edited by bsl100 (09/11/12 11:16 AM)

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#1957402 - 09/11/12 11:17 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: dewster]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3226
Originally Posted By: dewster
Plus no display - is a $1 single line LCD display really too much to ask for when spending $600? Casio can do it at this price point, why can't Yamaha?

I believe your premise is wrong, I don't think Casio has had a $600 piano with an LCD display A $700 model is not at the same price point. Raise the price of the Yamaha 15+ percent to match, and I'm sure they could add a bunch of stuff. But I wouldn't hold my breath for a Yamaha to come out and have more features at a lower price than a Casio.

Though in general, as I said in the Krome thread, I always think "if X can do it, why can't Y" is a poor argument, as there can be many reasons for such things. And if Casio is quicker to put LCDs on their boards than other companies, there could be a number of reasons for that (including, for example, that I believe Casio is actually a manufacturer of LCD displays, where Yamaha is not).

And is the LCD really just a dollar, at the quality and reliability that we would expect to see from Yamaha? I'm not sure. They do have a certain (and well deserved) reputation and can't put the cheapest junk in there.

Regardless of any of that, how useful would an LCD display be on a P105 anyway? The thing has very few functions, and most of them have direct-access buttons. I mean, if you can store and recall different combinations of splits and layers and do other such things, sure, an LCD is helpful for navigation, patch naming, and such. Or if you can edit sounds, so you can view various parameter settings. Or all kinds of other things you can't do on a P105. On such a simple board as this, I just don't see much need for it.

And a dollar is still a dollar. If you want to add a one dollar component to an item that has been designed to a price, you may need to cut a dollar somewhere else, engineers do face those kinds of scenarios. To us, it's a $600 keyboard, but for Yamaha and their dealers and distribution channels to make money on it, I would guess that they have to manufacture it for well under $200, and so even a dollar component may not be entirely insignificant.

Obviously, I have too much time on my hands this morning. ;-)

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#1957445 - 09/11/12 01:00 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4345
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I believe your premise is wrong, I don't think Casio has had a $600 piano with an LCD display A $700 model is not at the same price point.

Oops, you're right, I thought the PX130 had an LCD and I see now that it doesn't. Been a while since I saw one in a store.

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Regardless of any of that, how useful would an LCD display be on a P105 anyway?

Well, there's this (from the P105 manual):

"To turn on/off the Damper Resonance:
While holding down [DEMO/SONG] and [METRONOME/
RHYTHM] simultaneously, press the
G4 key (on; default) or G#4 key (off)."


Quite cumbersomely implemented IMO. The P105 is chock full of this kind of thing. Even a 3 digit seven segment LED display could be a big help here.

[EDIT]To be fair, the PX130 is full of this too, and both have markings above the keyboard to make it a little easier.


Edited by dewster (09/11/12 01:13 PM)
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1957510 - 09/11/12 04:13 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]
xorbe Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/12
Posts: 572
Loc: Mt View, CA
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I believe your premise is wrong, I don't think Casio has had a $600 piano with an LCD display

Costco was selling the Casio CDP200 with LCD display (plus bench and stand) for $450.

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#1957513 - 09/11/12 04:17 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
BrokenChord Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 288
Loc: Michigan
I stopped reading that guy's blog after he continuously recommended the AP620 after practically every DP review he did. Its like "Look at this new model. It looks nice..but...contact me to find out how to get the Casio AP620 at a good price".

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#1957589 - 09/11/12 06:58 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
Sometimes I like not having a LCD on a piano- in some instances it seems more appropriate on a workstation such as a Juno Gi or Motif type board.

Sometimes if I am playing in the dark at night, I don't mind not having a glowing LCD coming from the piano. Its like a break from the computer.

I think it makes more sense to have it in an item with 100-200 sounds, but not as necessary in a 12-15 sound piano.

On the other hand you have these silly type features like holding down keys and pressing other keys to change reverb.

The one pet peeve I do have sometimes is having to use a piano key to change a patch-
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#1957661 - 09/11/12 10:25 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: anotherscott]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: dewster
Plus no display - is a $1 single line LCD display really too much to ask for when spending $600? Casio can do it at this price point, why can't Yamaha?

I don't think Casio has had a $600 piano with an LCD


The now discontinued Casio PX-575R had an LCD display and retailed for $599. The display was about the size of the older WK series workstations that this model was based on. The CDP-220 is a cheaper version of the 575 based on the now discontinued WK-500 keyboard.


Edited by galaxy4t (09/12/12 12:43 AM)

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#1957680 - 09/11/12 10:59 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
I haven't come across any weighted action DP with an LCD screen in the $600 price range.

But I agree that a simple LED display would have offered a better UI in the P-105. They have changed the chasis design anyways.

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#1957698 - 09/11/12 11:56 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
bsl100, I expect an update to the Yamaha P155 will be announced at NAMM or Musikmesse, and will likely include an LCD display to compete with the Roland FP-7F and Kawai ES7.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1957706 - 09/12/12 12:32 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Thanks James. The ES7 and FP-7F are two really great boards and Yamaha is really missing out in this segment. These two boards offer a lot of features, whereas the P-155 is priced at a lower category and does not offer the bells and whistles which come with the other two boards. I feel the ES7 is going to be the one to beat in this segment.

I have been considering the P-105 as a lighter option for church use. The few pianist styles and rhythms and line outs are added benefits along with rounded speakers and tweeters.

The P-155 as well as the ES7 and FP-7F are pretty heavy in comparison.

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#1957722 - 09/12/12 02:36 AM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: bsl100]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
I would be inclined to go with the ES7 myself, as I already own an EP3 which has very good sounds and action, even as an older model from 2008. Looks like the ES7 has the best response (with a triple sensor action) and improved sounds.

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#1957965 - 09/12/12 05:08 PM Re: P105 or PX350? Advice and input needed/welcome [Re: Kawai James]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3226
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
bsl100, I expect an update to the Yamaha P155 will be announced at NAMM or Musikmesse, and will likely include an LCD display to compete with the Roland FP-7F and Kawai ES7.

For your employer's sake, I hope Yamaha does not come out with a $1000 P155 replacement that can really compete with the $2000 Rolands and Kawais. ;-)

At the moment, I guess their FP-7F/ES7 competitor is the CP-300. It has been a while, I wonder if they will come out with a new high end portable with speakers.

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For sale: stand & monitors (used with MP11)...
by mrmacmusic
10/01/14 07:38 AM
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