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#1955910 - 09/08/12 12:46 PM Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
I'm interested in getting opinions on the 4th movement - which is the fourth piece in the playlist

www.myspace.com/swaypiano

live in concert
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1956074 - 09/08/12 06:14 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
Is this from the performance you gave in April, when you also played the Brahms and Medtner?
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#1956085 - 09/08/12 06:55 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
No it's from a concert a few weeks after that!
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1956185 - 09/09/12 12:30 AM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
Ok this will be easier:
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#1956374 - 09/09/12 12:21 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Tim Adrianson Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1123
Well, my overall opinion is that this is one of Prokofiev's finest efforts in his "late" period -- along with his Piano Sonata No 8. IMO, they both are wrenching emotional responses to the events of Russia in WW II, where SO many lives were ended brutally, either by starvation or in warfare. One is the obverse of the other, however: the Piano Sonata really ends quite optimistically and victoriously after walking you through gruesome terrains of brutality and decadence, but the Violin Sonata begins and ends in truly agonizing sadness.
I hear the 4th Movement in contrast to the second, although they're set up quite similarly. The Scherzo movement is for me Prokofiev at his sarcastic, sneering best throughout, evoking the spirit of early Shostakovich. The gruff march and galumphing lyrical material is for me just outright humorous, and intended to be just that. The polyrhythmic material of the last movement, however, is for me straightforwardly dance-like and celebratory, at least at first; and the lyrical material is, I believe, intended to be guileless and sentimental; i.e., no sense of irony. However, the return of the "dance", clearly forecasted in the piano, moves from celebratory into a sinister devil's dance, which transmogrifies relentlessly and culminates in the screaming (but still melodic!) massive chords, which I hear as just outright sobs of agony. This, of course, sets up the reentry of the eerie "graveyard" material so eloquently established in the first movement: millions of ended lives, in a wasteland of desolation. Just a shattering conclusion to a magnificent statement.

Overall, incidentally, I was very much taken with the violinist's and your interpretation -- I thought it captured the gravity and emotional wallop of the composition very well.

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#1956398 - 09/09/12 01:11 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
Wow, this is pretty much exactly what we were thinking as well...! We had to work hard to not make this movement's beginning motif sound angry or aggressive...... It's the opposite, like you said. And the ending phrase, it's so cool where it's taken from!
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1956606 - 09/09/12 08:24 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Tim Adrianson Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 1123
Well, it's nice to know that great minds indeed run in the same track (I like to think that great hearts, in fact, DO) -- you certainly deserved the "whoops" at the end of that performance. I always find that especially gratifying -- you know that THOSE whoops are the real thing, from a knowing audience!

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#1956610 - 09/09/12 08:31 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Pogo's an A+ talent with a work ethic to match.

Needs to finish school and start pro career ASAP.

BTW...you looking at any academic jobs in the US for next year? I got my eyes and ears open for myself and a few other people...
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1956642 - 09/09/12 10:01 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Kreisler]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Pogo's an A+ talent with a work ethic to match.

Needs to finish school and start pro career ASAP.

BTW...you looking at any academic jobs in the US for next year? I got my eyes and ears open for myself and a few other people...


Seriously? Yeah..!!! If I can get a job I like, to helll with school. Unfortunately I don't have DMA yet though... doubt I'll even qualify for anything.
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1956657 - 09/09/12 10:18 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Tim Adrianson]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Tim Adrianson
Well, it's nice to know that great minds indeed run in the same track (I like to think that great hearts, in fact, DO) -- you certainly deserved the "whoops" at the end of that performance. I always find that especially gratifying -- you know that THOSE whoops are the real thing, from a knowing audience!


Thanks =) Next time hope it's at least a little cleaner.. and louder... (string players ALWAYS think we're too loud)
That audience was filled with some of the most amazing people I've ever met, and absolutely amazing (and supportive!) musicians, great minds. It's not a perfect performance, but I'll always remember the circumstances, such an inspiring atmosphere.
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1957749 - 09/12/12 07:00 AM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Pogorelich.]
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8027
It's amazing music, and you served it extremely well.

You are right about the loudness thing - there are a couple of spots where I think it would be fine if the piano overwhelmed the violin in ferocity.

To me, the utter desolation of the "wind over the grave" music and the epilogue after it is a unique combination of poignancy and a kind of existential horror. There's nothing else like it in music, as far as I know. It was interesting to hear you add just a tiny hint of warmth to all the bleakness, right at the end. At least that's the way I heard it.

A little side-note: Oistrakh said that when Prokofiev first had him come and look over the piece, it was immediately clear to him (Oistrakh) that it was a masterpiece, one of the great violin sonatas. But he said that Prokofiev himself didn't seem to understand that what he had written was something extraordinary. That's an interesting thought to me - that a composer might not really understand how significant their own music was in the larger context. But then, how would they know?

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#1958373 - 09/13/12 03:00 PM Re: Prokofiev violin sonata in F- op. 80 [Re: Tim Adrianson]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Tim Adrianson
Overall, incidentally, I was very much taken with the violinist's and your interpretation -- I thought it captured the gravity and emotional wallop of the composition very well.


And I thought it was exceptional !!!!! thumb
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