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#1958114 - 09/13/12 01:00 AM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Kreisler]
ScriabinAddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 333
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Romantic - Bombastic - Overplayed = Nothing Left.


Not exactly, but getting an orchestra to perform a Melcer PC or a Bortkiewicz PC might prove to be a challenge.

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#1958116 - 09/13/12 01:07 AM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
I'd go with Grieg.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1958136 - 09/13/12 03:08 AM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
But this is your first concerto, so a 'beginner' concerto is a good idea.

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#1958194 - 09/13/12 09:10 AM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Kreisler]
arpan70 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 99
Loc: Mumbai, India
The Strauss might be an overkill. For the orchestra as well as for the pianist. It would sound horrible with a student orchestra



Edited by arpan70 (09/13/12 09:12 AM)
_________________________
Beethoven: Piano Sonata No.23, Op.57 "Apassionata"
Brahms: Violin Sonata No.2, Op.100
Faure: Barcarolle No.5, Op.66
Grieg: Cello Sonata, Op.36

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#1958200 - 09/13/12 09:17 AM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
arpan70 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 99
Loc: Mumbai, India
And why not try Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. The audience will be impressed and it won't be too taxing on you like the other suggestions.
_________________________
Beethoven: Piano Sonata No.23, Op.57 "Apassionata"
Brahms: Violin Sonata No.2, Op.100
Faure: Barcarolle No.5, Op.66
Grieg: Cello Sonata, Op.36

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#1958220 - 09/13/12 10:13 AM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 711
Loc: Westford, MA
Originally Posted By: Gould

It isin't for a competition but it is for a performance with my teachers orchestra for next year. Though chamber music is wonderful I would rather prefer to learn a concerto for now. I didin't want to choose the Ravel or Beethoven because I am positive that it would be negatively received by the unfortunately less musically inclined audiences around my area. In other words i'm searching for a concerto that can be universally loved by the masses; i.e trying to promote classical music towards audiences that don't usually think highly of it.

There is an arrangement for piano and orchestra by Adler of Gottschalk's Union, which is subtitled Paraphrase de Concert on the National airs Star Spangled Banner, Yankee Doodle, and Hail Columbia. If you are in the US it hard to imagine an audience that would not enjoy this.

The original solo piano version is very difficult but the arrangement makes it much easier. I performed this in high school with the local youth orchestra. This arrangement also seems to be fairly obscure. I could not find it on Youtube and could only find one recording of it.

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#1958319 - 09/13/12 01:49 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5459
Loc: Orange County, CA
Gershwin, Concerto in F. The average non-classical audience will love it.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1958463 - 09/13/12 05:30 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2630
Loc: Netherlands
Schumann! (or maybe Saint-Saëns 2, Franck Variations symphoniques, Hummel, Weber Konzertstück, Alkan concerto da camera, Rimsky-Korsakov, Arensky) but Schumann!
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Couperin pices, Ravel tombeau de C

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#1959057 - 09/14/12 09:54 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17949
Loc: Victoria, BC
Assembling quotes from Gould’s posts in this thread in an attempt to understand what he really wants, leaves me somewhat at a loss to know what s/he is looking for and even more at a loss to know what to suggest.

After thinking about it, i've narrowed my choices to be down to the romantic era. Problem is, I CAN'T DECIDE. There are just too many beautiful gems to pick from!
It would be amazing if someone could share me an insight about this and perhaps even suggest some wonderful romantic concertos! (1957764)


Though I seriously adore and love listening to [classical concerti] being played; I don't really have much interest in actually learning a classical concerto. The only classical concerto's that I would have wanted to play would probably be far beyond my reach, cough Beethoven 4,5 Mozart 20, 24, etc.


Teacher suggested either Liszt 1, 2 or the Yellow River concerto (not romantic but still.) (1957792)

It isin't for a competition but it is for a performance with my teachers orchestra for next year. Though chamber music is wonderful I would rather prefer to learn a concerto for now. I didin't want to choose the Ravel or Beethoven because I am positive that it would be negatively received by the unfortunately less musically inclined audiences around my area. In other words i'm searching for a concerto that can be universally loved by the masses; i.e trying to promote classical music towards audiences that don't usually think highly of it. (1958097)

The Kabalevsky 3 had always been on my mind but... (don't kill me) it feels a little condescending and unimpressive to have that concerto in my rep., partially due to the infamy it received as being a "Youth"/Beginner concerto. (1958113)


First, there was a simple request for suggestions of a Romantic piano concerto, no mention of audience “requirements,” but then, after numerous suggestions were made, the rules of the game change to require something that must be “loved by the masses.”
1. He “seriously adore[s] and love[s] listening to” classical concerti being played, but has no interest in learning one, and seems somewhat dismissive of the cornerstones of modern piano concerti, although ...
2. he has nevertheless thought of the Beethoven Fourth or Fifth, or the Mozart No 20 or 24, but they would be “far beyond [his] reach. But then he admits that the Beethoven would be negatively received, as would the Ravel, because his audience is “less musically inclined.”
3. So, he limits his wants to a Romantic concerto “loved by the masses,” and his teacher suggests the Liszt E-flat major or A major. Mozart and Beethoven would be beyond his reach, but the two Liszt concerti wouldn’t be?
4. A beginner concerto is not appropriate because “it would [feel] a little condescending and unimpressive to have that concerto in [his] rep"! He wants to impress, but not with a work as difficult as a Mozart or a late Beethoven concerto. On the other hand, however, the Kabalevsky is “infamous” as a “beginner concerto”?
5. With no concerto in his rep, as of the present, he yet wants to be impressive with a “beautiful gem” of a Romantic concerto.

How does one come up with a work that fulfills all of these requirements?

I'm at a loss. How about Addinsell's "Warsaw Concerto"? Your unwashed, uneducated masses should love that one! I rather like it myself; what does that make me?
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1959071 - 09/14/12 10:54 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: BruceD]
ScriabinAddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 333
Originally Posted By: BruceD
I'm at a loss. How about Addinsell's "Warsaw Concerto"? Your unwashed, uneducated masses should love that one!


Oh God, no!

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#1959263 - 09/15/12 02:22 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: BruceD]
Gould Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 429
Loc: Earth
Thank you so much for that very detailed analysis. Is there really that much to think about seriously?

All I asked for were suggestions for a romantic concerto that appeals to all and is not too notorious for it being overplayed. I happen to live in country in south east asia( I shan't specify) where most people do not appreciate classical music yet, hence I am trying to find a concerto that would appeal to non-inclined musical audiences.

Yes I do admit that I feel that the Ravel would not be appreciated here. So what? Considering that most of the population around my area consists of middle and low working class people ranging from little restaurants to hawker stalls and to tiny offices why can't I think so? I certainly see no reason not to speculate that.

So in the end what is wrong with being a little ambitious and taking on a harder romantic concerto instead of a starter? I'm not exactly a complete greenhorn so I don't think I would be missing on THAT much if I were to skip a "beginner" concerto.

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#1959294 - 09/15/12 03:59 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
arpan70 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 99
Loc: Mumbai, India
Based on some of your past repertoire, as seen from your posts, it would not be reccommendable by any standard to play either Liszt concerti, especially a year and a half after doing fur elise. Again, I believe, which I assume many others would as well, that you should do a 'beginner' concerto. It would be fine to be a little ambitious if you were playing only for study purpose. However, it is not advisable to be extremely ambitious when you will be playing with an orchestra and for an audience. Furthermore, since the audience is not well versed in classical music, giving a not so great performance would just steer them away from classical music.

You must also consider the limitations of the orchestra. I am assuming that the orchestra is small and not very good because of the fact that they have taken a non-professional to play with them. Perhaps the orchestra might not be able to play a large romantic concerto well. I doubt the audience would like such a performance. Thus, I urge you to play a classical concerto. Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 23 would work very well with the audience. It is the kind of piece that is immediately attractive. It doesn't require repeated listens to appreciate. It won't be taxing on the orchestra and it won't be too hard( though still hard) on you as well. This will ensure a better performance and a happier audience than you would get playing an overly-ambitious romantic concerto.

Lastly, when you are playing for an audience, please think about the performance as a whole and of how the audience would feel trying to increase your self-esteem by completing a romantic concerto( though in an incomplete manner). Your aim should be to make the audience happy as well as they are giving you their time and money(?) to watch you play. And please pay heed to the advice givenby the members of the forum or else put yourself at risk of turning into a mazurkajoe in the Beethoven Sonata Advicee post.
_________________________
Beethoven: Piano Sonata No.23, Op.57 "Apassionata"
Brahms: Violin Sonata No.2, Op.100
Faure: Barcarolle No.5, Op.66
Grieg: Cello Sonata, Op.36

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#1959400 - 09/15/12 10:00 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
Gould Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 429
Loc: Earth
Thank you all for the amazing advice. I have listened to all those suggested pieces and suggestions but for the first time I shan't listen to the advice of picking a "beginner" concerto and shall delve quickly into a bigger concerto. I shall see my progress in the upcoming year. Thank you again.

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#2016699 - 01/18/13 12:18 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
jdott Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 34
Loc: Colorado, USA
Since you nixed the Grieg: avoid Liszt and Rachmaninoff; you'll only get discouraged. A romantic era? Saint-Saens maybe, or possibly Schumann. I agree that both Chopin are difficult, but the orchestration in both is horrible. Some great music in them, but both should have been sonatas, not concerti.

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#2019851 - 01/23/13 06:58 PM Re: Help! Picking a first concerto! [Re: Gould]
celegorma Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/08
Posts: 103
There are many ways of looking at this choice. What is your main goal of learning the concerto and what will you be doing with it most of the time? If your main goal is to get an orchestra to play it with you, then of course the Chopins are bad. But if your main goal is to play with a pianist or even just to play it as a solo piece, then the Chopins are great choices and you will definitely enjoy the process of learning them because they sound great already on their own.

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