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I like piano.

Sometimes I prefer forte -- but I digress.

I have notified the moderators! Kindly stay on topic in the future! Piano indeed!!!

Before I make my egress from this thread, I think I must digress for a bit, and as much as I hate doing so, steer this thread (temporarily, at least) back to the OP .

Because Mark raised some very good points that deserve discussion.


I agree with all of Mark's points. This is an internet forum, not a conservatory. And while no one would suggest we are friends, there is, for the most part, a spirit of camaraderie and levity that surrounds our discussions. This is as it should be. I'm sure all of us would probably agree that we have learned a great deal at PW, but I don't think learning is necessarily the primary goal. Speaking for myself, I come here primarily for the diversion and entertainment. The learning is a bonus. Then again, I'm sure there are others who prefer to explore the most arcane aspects of music, and never deviate from the topic. And that's fine too.

But as with any live discussion, topics come and go. And as much as I may want to discuss a specific topic of interest to me, I've found that my fellow PW members often have different ideas. And while I may be disappointed that a thread I've started quickly veered off course, I accept the fact that the marketplace rules. Maybe the topic was previously exhausted on other threads, or maybe only a tiny handful of people have any interest in it. So be it. Let my thread die a peaceful death, and let me live to start another one.

PW needs to be a welcoming place. If people sense that their contributions will be labeled rude, obnoxious, trollish, off-topic, etc. they will not contribute. Feeling uncertain about what the rules are, they will simply retreat into the shadows rather than risk being publicly chastised. (This is why the ratio of Views to Replies is so high). What makes these threads lively and interesting is the diversity of opinions, contributors, and writing styles. If the threads meander, let them. The longest lived threads (and the liveliest) are often those that meander the most. It is simply the nature of free and spontaneous conversation.

And I thought I was borrowing part of it from Dickens !!

^ THIS.

You raise several good points. I am in agreement with you. Old Man, Piano *Dad, and Beet have also raised several good points which I am in agreement with.

Well, obviously I wouldn't agree with most of your points. For example, one could just as easily say that:

1. To be a "welcoming" place, interrupting and cutting off another person with a private conversation should be not be considered a positive. In a non internet conversation, if I brought up a topic for discussion and in reply two people started talking back and forth about essentially something else, I wouldn't consider it appropriate. The internet is sometimes described as a place where people behave in a way they couldn't get away with outside of cyberspace, but I don't consider that a positive.

2. There is a difference between letting a topic "meander" after it has had a chance to stay on topic and going off topic immediately. One can assume that eventually many/most threads will meander but meandering after two posts I think is not good.

3. People would be less likely to "contribute" if they feel their topic will be cut off quickly.

4. "Diversity of opinions, writing styles" as something good seems unrelated to hijacking or digressions or whatever one wants to call it.

5. The ratio of views to replies is, I would imagine, typical of most forums. While it's possible that some viewers do not want to post because they think their posts will be labelled in some negative way, I think that is almost a non issue at PW or at least no more of an issue than on any other forum.

6. The longest lived threads are sometimes the ones that meander the most and sometimes not they are not that way. And whether length makes them livelier or in any way better than other threads is personal opinion.

7. "Friends" usually don't cut one another off in conversation.

8. There are no "market place rules" at PW about hijacking threads so there is nothing to "accept". A thread should IMO die a "peaceful death" after it had had at least some chance to live.
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I have started many hundreds or perhaps even thousands of threads at PW. I cannot recall another one where I felt those posting replies were acting in such an unwelcoming way(for the 11 posts I quoted earlier)as I felt they were in the thread under discussion.

If you had made a friendly comment in your thread trying to refocus the discussion on the topic of your original post instead of calling Mark_C, Lady Chen, and others on the carpet, you could have achieved your intention without causing a kerfuffle. You had some wise words in the Stores valedictory op. 81a thread:


All of us should try to follow this.

Very true.

And really, not even such a thing would have been needed; we weren't getting the thread off the topic. We were just having a slight digression and a little fun in the midst of it.

And how about let's talk for a second about FUN.

It seems to me that those who object most to the digressions seem (pardon my saying) not to be that much into having fun on this site. That's fine of course -- but it would be good for them to recognize that others do come here in part for fun, and that it's a reasonable thing.

Maybe even good.

Putting something in italics doesn't make it any more true. One of the posters in the part I objected to apologized for the hijacking even before I responded.Of course, one could just as easily say that those who don't come here for fun should be respected for their approach also. And if one reads my posts I think that saying I don't come here for fun becomes ridiculous. I just don't think fun has to or should mean interrupting/hijacking.

Yes, but if one feels offended to a high enough degree, diplomacy is not always the first thing on one's mind. As I mentioned previously, I cannot recall a single thread I've started where I felt as strongly about being cut off. I also think one should consider that Mark has by far the highest posting rate of anyone at PW. Does that mean his need to post should be considered the norm?

I think the stores situation is also quite different because he was well known for routinely posting in the way I described and without anything to provoke him(except that he thought someone's musical idea was incorrect).

I won't reply to most of what you said, but I'll just point out that you mistook what she meant by the apology, as has been noted here. You're taking it and running with it for your own purposes, in a mistaken way.


I hope you are not failing to grasp the basic answer here: People are largely (and actually it seems uniformly) in favor of allowing the kinds of digressions you dislike, and many if not most even seem to feel it's good to encourage a feeling of freedom to engage in them. What are you trying to do here? Convince us that our view is wrong, and that the site should follow your standard about it? That's not going to happen.

If you're trying mainly to make the point that your view is reasonable, you needn't worry: I don't think anyone feels it's not reasonable as a personal view and preference. Heck, even I think it's reasonable -- but as a personal preference, not something to expect the rest of the site to share, and not as a justification to consider it improper or rude if people do otherwise and (to use Otis's phrase) to call them on the carpet for it.

Hmmm...

Threads are like living organisms. It's impossible to hold back others! It's not nice sometimes, but it can happen, as it happens in real life. PLV haven't you ever been interrupted by others in a discussion? This is what happened in the other thread.

Now, on something much more serious: My wife left for Azerbaijan on the 21st of August, thus OF COURSE I didn't notice stores departure. Then and pretty much until now I've been buried either in work or in my taking care of my kids... :-/

I somehow feel responsible for this thread, but this and all the other discussion following was pretty much some unique interest about something that elluded me (and was just some 'pub discussion really'). There's hardly a need for a new thread about this.

I think I just found a thread where everyone stays on topic.

Its on a peugeot 306 turbo diesal maintenance forum and the thread title is "how do I change my oil filter?"

there are two replies and they both agree with each other ( fortunately for the mechanically inept OP)

I'm surprised anyone would see brief digressions like what happened on the other thread as "interruptions."

Internet threads often have multiple things going on at once, without any of the things "interrupting" the others. And in this case, the digression was even closely related to the main topic, and clearly didn't interrupt anything; the main topic was continuing.

is being "surprised" a digression in itself?

Hmmm. I just refreshed my screen, and the latest score I have is:

Mark C 15,850
pianoloverus 15,645

I think if you and Mark were running for mayor of New York, you would have a pretty strong case for demanding a recount.

I think that with "rate" he means "posts per day".
(There are boards where if you click on a profile you can indeed see the average number of posts per day of that person.)

Does it say who has stayed on topic the least?