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#1962324 - 09/21/12 11:04 PM V chord to IV chord - how common is it?
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
On this page, you will find a piece that I wrote. It's an etude that focuses on bringing out the melody and playing musically. I would have to categorize it as classical. Please also read the material under "About this score" for more information about this piece.

But on measures 5, 13, 21, and 29, immediately after the half cadence (V chord) on each previous measure, I made the chord progression go back to IV. Looking at the big picture, the chord progression of the piece as a whole can be summarized as:

I-IV-V-I-IV-(V7/V)-V-IV-(V864-V753; cadential 6/4), I, V7, I, (V864-V753), I. (repeat three more times, with variations).

So my question is, how common is it in classical music (Common Practice Period) to have a IV chord right after a V?


Disclaimer: I only write music for the fun of it, and also to apply what I learn in my college music theory classes. Please do not leave harsh, non-constructive criticism. Thank you. smile


Edited by dlee1001 (09/21/12 11:30 PM)
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#1962933 - 09/23/12 01:01 AM Re: V chord to IV chord - how common is it? [Re: dlee1001]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5221
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Disclaimer: I only write music for the fun of it, and also to apply what I learn in my college music theory classes. Please do not leave harsh, non-constructive criticism. Thank you. smile
Ok.

You should actually find a nice place to crawl, because as a composer you suck bigtime and you should NEVER EVER compose again. When I listened to your piece 3 cats and 5 fairies died next door! Ok?!?!

grin grin grin grin

OF COURSE I'M KIDDING!

And while you may get some harsh comments from a few people, I don't think that the overall tendency is too bad here in PW. As opposed to say... youtube (which is filled with nastiness).

__________________________

On your work and question now.

The mechanical recording is doing little good, but I think that this actually is a lovely piece. And while I like to promote contemporary music and more pushy material, in this instance and the timid way you presented it offered me some peace of mind! So thanks.

On your question.

The V - IV ( - V) is actually quite common in common practice (pun intended). One could even argue that there are works where it goes V - IV and then I (the IV is treated like some kind of an appogiatura chord).

So as far as common practic is concerned as long as you resolve the IV to a V, or a I6/4 you should be 'fine'.

As far as the aesthetics of this work are concerned, I think you are most fine. In fact I'd recommend that you make a PDF out of this little etude and post it in the teachers forum. I think the people there would appreciate it (since most don't even look down here...).

Welcome and thanks for posting and sharing!
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#1963555 - 09/24/12 07:34 AM Re: V chord to IV chord - how common is it? [Re: dlee1001]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: London UK
There's no problem at all with going to IV after V. There are some other issues though.

In block chord style, we don't have to worry anout parallel 5ths so much as if we were writing 4-part vocal harmony. But you are very fond of using similar motion between melody and bass. It sounds "plonky". There are other chords than I, IV, V, there are other voicings than root position! For instance, in bar 1 the roots of both the Db and Eb chords appear in both melody and bass, and move at the same time! Parallel EVERYTHINGS!

In bar 4, that Db strongly suggests a. Eb7 chord, but it doesn't follow through. If you want a change of colour on the second beat of that bar, you could step the G down as well.

I'd suggest that, as you want constant legato pedalling, you de-clutter the score by throwing out ALL the ped. markings. A simple "con ped." at the beginning will suffice.

But no fairies died, and my cat is content :-) Keep at it!

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#1967369 - 10/01/12 03:43 PM Re: V chord to IV chord - how common is it? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
There's no problem at all with going to IV after V. There are some other issues though.

In block chord style, we don't have to worry anout parallel 5ths so much as if we were writing 4-part vocal harmony. But you are very fond of using similar motion between melody and bass. It sounds "plonky". There are other chords than I, IV, V, there are other voicings than root position! For instance, in bar 1 the roots of both the Db and Eb chords appear in both melody and bass, and move at the same time! Parallel EVERYTHINGS!

In bar 4, that Db strongly suggests a. Eb7 chord, but it doesn't follow through. If you want a change of colour on the second beat of that bar, you could step the G down as well.

I'd suggest that, as you want constant legato pedalling, you de-clutter the score by throwing out ALL the ped. markings. A simple "con ped." at the beginning will suffice.

But no fairies died, and my cat is content :-) Keep at it!



Sorry for my lack of replies; I didn't get any e-mail notifications, so I thought no one replied to the post. I fixed that problem. smile

Anyway, 18th century voice leading rules do not apply in piano compositions, though I do my best to avoid open fifths, because they sound terrible. But where I did omit the third of the chord (on some of the V chords), I at least put a seventh on each of those instances to give them that dominant feel.

The reason why I included the pedal markings is because there are some people who put the pedal to the metal and make the piece sound too muddy. I'm one of those people who needs to be specific about everything when it comes to someone performing my compositions (which, BTW, I really want someone to do), because I'm afraid that there'll be people who won't use the pedal at all due to the score not having any pedal markings, or that they'll pedal at all the wrong places.


Edited by dlee1001 (10/01/12 04:10 PM)
_________________________
Steinway grand pianos for the win

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#1967385 - 10/01/12 04:12 PM Re: V chord to IV chord - how common is it? [Re: Nikolas]
dlee1001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Originally Posted By: dlee1001
Disclaimer: I only write music for the fun of it, and also to apply what I learn in my college music theory classes. Please do not leave harsh, non-constructive criticism. Thank you. smile
Ok.

You should actually find a nice place to crawl, because as a composer you suck bigtime and you should NEVER EVER compose again. When I listened to your piece 3 cats and 5 fairies died next door! Ok?!?!

grin grin grin grin

OF COURSE I'M KIDDING!

And while you may get some harsh comments from a few people, I don't think that the overall tendency is too bad here in PW. As opposed to say... youtube (which is filled with nastiness).

__________________________

On your work and question now.

The mechanical recording is doing little good, but I think that this actually is a lovely piece. And while I like to promote contemporary music and more pushy material, in this instance and the timid way you presented it offered me some peace of mind! So thanks.

On your question.

The V - IV ( - V) is actually quite common in common practice (pun intended). One could even argue that there are works where it goes V - IV and then I (the IV is treated like some kind of an appogiatura chord).

So as far as common practic is concerned as long as you resolve the IV to a V, or a I6/4 you should be 'fine'.

As far as the aesthetics of this work are concerned, I think you are most fine. In fact I'd recommend that you make a PDF out of this little etude and post it in the teachers forum. I think the people there would appreciate it (since most don't even look down here...).

Welcome and thanks for posting and sharing!


Thank you for the information. But that website where I can post a PDF, what is the address to it?
_________________________
Steinway grand pianos for the win

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