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#1965125 - 09/27/12 06:33 AM CN34 vs CA65
ilovespud Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 6
Morning,

I have been perusing your forums for a while as have been looking to buy a DP for a while now. I DJ and got my Grade 5 when I was 14 so 30 years ago ! I have a budget of 1200 -1500 really but can stretch it if need be and would like to know whether you think it is worth stretching for the older CA65 over the brand new CN34 - I see the CN34 is out soon with a tonne of voices and an improved sensor but the CA65 has wooden keys etc...

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#2049534 - 03/17/13 07:28 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
I'm sorry to restart this post, but I have the same question.
For a beginner, what are the differences between those two pianos ?
CN34 : 1510 €
CA65 : 2270€
Well the first is the price, but when I see the features, I don't see a lot of differences.


Edited by doume (03/17/13 08:25 AM)

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#2049536 - 03/17/13 07:43 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
The main difference is the action. Also a better sound system. The rest are more sound, more options to modify the sound etc. I would suggest to play both if possible and then decide. The action on the cn34 is heavier like an upright where the ca65 is more like a grand.

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#2049538 - 03/17/13 07:47 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
For me the most important difference is the keyboard action. The GrandFeel action of the CA65 is quite superior to the Responsive Hammer II action of the CN34. If you are used to playing an acoustic piano you will probably feel the difference. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the CN34 has an 'improved sensor'. They both have the same triple-sensor setup, no?

If a realistic piano feel isn't as important to you as lots of features/voices etc then the CN34 is probably a better choice. They're both great digital pianos.

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#2049544 - 03/17/13 08:12 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: debrucey]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
thank you for your answers.
It's difficult for me because as I said before, i'm a real beginner and for the keyboard action, I can only listen yours advices.
But I know what I want for the piano :
I like music and now I have time enough for playing piano. ( 60 years old ....)
I only want the sound of piano and a good feel action, and I don't think that I'm going to play with others sounds.
If, as I hope, I can play piano, I don't want to change in 1-2 years.


Edited by doume (03/17/13 08:27 AM)

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#2049562 - 03/17/13 09:22 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Well , what about the new CA-15. A nice in-between ca65 and ca34. It has an excellent wooden RM3 action with third sensor and the same cabinet and speaker setup as the CA65 (though with less amp power). For the rest no bells and whistles, or tons of extra sounds. Piano sound is the same as on the CN34.

Of course the CA 65 is a better in sound engine, extra features + additional sounds and amp power, but the CA15 is a very nice basic no-nonsense DP with better action and speakers than the CN34. A consideration in case the CN has too much features you'll never use and the CA65 is above budget.

No budget constrains ? :
If you go for the best , consider a CA95 or even classier the new CS10. Bothe with soundboard.

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#2049572 - 03/17/13 10:01 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: doume]
floydthebarber71 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 178
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: doume
It's difficult for me because as I said before, i'm a real beginner and for the keyboard action, I can only listen yours advices.


Very wrong, actions are a personal preference so make sure you try it out for yourself. I have the RH action with my CL36 and I think it's gorgeous. I wouldn't just dismiss it, give them both a go and see if either is worth it.
_________________________
Zaahir

Self-taught renegade - Kawai CL-36

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#2049609 - 03/17/13 11:03 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: floydthebarber71]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
Yes I know that, but as I said before, I don't play piano yet.
And the choice is very difficult. I was in a shop, but I can try the keyboard, without experience.

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#2049619 - 03/17/13 11:31 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9341
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Which instrument did you prefer?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2049635 - 03/17/13 12:09 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
In terms of the overall experience, in my opinion, the CA65 is far closer to the experience of playing an acoustic grand piano than the CN34 is. If this is what you are most interested in, but don't have enough experience with real pianos to decide which is best, then I would recommend the CA65, or as JFP suggested, the CA-15 if budget is an issue.

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#2049652 - 03/17/13 12:41 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
I will probably never play a grand but I play the acoustic upright of my teacher. And there the cn34 is much closer to that than the ca65. Its very subjective to the player but both are great pianos.

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#2049724 - 03/17/13 02:23 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
Hey

James, it's difficult to say, because the seller was playing for me. But for my ears, the CA65 sound better.
He says that the CN34 was better than the CA15, even if the last one has wooden touch.
I have about 2000€ for this piano.

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#2049732 - 03/17/13 03:20 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I guess he didn't have the CA15 then and was eager to sell a CN34 which he DID have. For the AP sound, the ca15 and cn34 are the same (James correct me if I'm wrong), but the CA has a better speaker system. If he meant that the cn34 offered more features and sounds for the money, that is correct. If he implied that the pure AP sound coming of the DP was better, I doubt that.

Either way, the CA65 beats them both. As always you should play them all three, cause they each have their own keybed (RH II, RM3 II, GF) and whether you like a key touch is a all personal preference.

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#2049791 - 03/17/13 04:56 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
I just made a little excel (a simple classic but effective decision tool) 'cause I am agonizing in same situation for half a year. (No hurry, I have a Kurzi PC88 at my disposal and have just the excellent acoustic alternatives.)

I picked my main aspects like price, portability, cabinet, sound quality, features, 3-sensor, wooden key, escapement, general keyboard action, pedal, and a column for my "sympathy" for the instruments, gave a weight to them, normalized the weights to percents (for getting consistent and comparable scores.) and evaluated every aspect with numbers from 0-10. After the resulting scores the CA65 seemed to be a clear and consistent winner (if price range was varying between 30%-50%) - but based on my evaluation and weighting.
My previously narrowed list of models I compared contained Fatar Acuna73, Casio AP450, And from Kawai: VPC1, CN34, CA15, CA65 and CA95.

I'll publish it with some toughts and a little documentation probably next weekend, but if somebody interested, leave a short PM and I could mail it directly perhaps erlier (no promise, I am now extremely busy for the next 3-4 days).


Edited by Temperament (03/17/13 11:48 PM)
_________________________
Acoustic: own clavichord!, Burger&Jacoby,Biel (nice vintage vertical)
Digital: CA65; Pianoteq; Sampled:Galaxy VintageD+Vienna(Bösendorfer)
Sampletekk Black,PMI, etc...
Harpsi: Beurmann Dutch+Sampletekk, Clavichord:PMI+Wavelore+organs

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#2049934 - 03/17/13 09:14 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: doume]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9341
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: doume
James, it's difficult to say, because the seller was playing for me.


I would strongly recommend also playing the instruments for yourself. Even if you're lacking in confidence, it's important to get a 'feel' for the piano's keyboard action.

Originally Posted By: doume
He says that the CN34 was better than the CA15, even if the last one has wooden touch.


In terms of features, the CN34 is certainly stronger. However, for 'pure piano', the CA15 is superior.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2050036 - 03/18/13 03:11 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: Kawai James]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3697
Loc: Northern England.
The CN34 has a huge range of voices, I`m told. But only a two track recorder except for the SMS stuff on USB. You might be just the guy to explain in simple terms, James! It sounds like a suitable replacement for me . . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2050046 - 03/18/13 03:49 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9341
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Peter,

The CN34's internal song recorder is limited to two tracks per song. However, by connecting a USB memory it is possible to create standard MIDI files (.mid) that can have upto 16-tracks.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2050055 - 03/18/13 04:23 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
An excel list will only help you to limit the amount of pianos to test. But can't help for choosing. It is a simple matter of personal needs and what your gut tells you.

If you want a very good action and a lot of features and a good sound take the CN34.
If you like the grand like wooden action of the CA65, a lot of features and an even better sound, take the CA65 (I'm waiting for the CA95 crowd to start promoting the soundboard :-)
If you want a wooden action but don't need a lot of features take a look at the CA15.
If a console style piano is not a must, there's also the ES7 as an alternative.

But beware, these are three different actions. I tried a lot of pianos and for me the CN34 was
the perfect package within my budget. The wooden actions (i tried CA65 and CS9 i think) were to soft for my taste but as a beginner i have absolutely no experience to rate an action.

One hint for dry testing. Read the manuals of the pianos.


Edited by MagicK (03/18/13 04:24 AM)

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#2050169 - 03/18/13 10:35 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
thanks to all for your answers.
I think i'm going to choose between CA65 and CN34.
For that, i'm going tomorow in the shop.
What must I try for the test ?
I'll tell you my final choice.

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#2050189 - 03/18/13 11:10 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
Take some headphones with you, if you have good ones. One thing i did was to play around on the keys with the piano switched off to get a feel for the action.
If you can, bring sheet music and play something you already know. With head phones no one can hear you play ;-) Otherwise play scales and chords. Usually it is very difficult to get a good impression of the on board sound in a crowded store.

As said before, the action and the sound system are the major differences. Everything else is not so important with these two models.

P.S.: You mentioned the tons of voices on the CN34. Don't get mislead by marketing. The CA65 has more quality voices (if you want/need them). Most of the voices on the CN34 are standard GM2 voices. Nice for playing around, handy for playing midis but nothing to base your decision on.

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#2050192 - 03/18/13 11:22 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
good idea, the headphones !
For the tons of voices of the CN34, i'm not interested...


Edited by doume (03/18/13 11:23 AM)

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#2050269 - 03/18/13 02:14 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: MagicK]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Originally Posted By: MagicK
An excel list will only help you to limit the amount of pianos to test. But can't help for choosing. It is a simple matter of personal needs and what your gut tells you.
Far from it, in a decision calculation You just comprise your personal needs and what your gut tells very effectively. The process of filling in a decision table enforces You to think about the manyfold aspects and not let deceive yourself and may save you from the consequenses of a purchuse out of impuls.

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#2050305 - 03/18/13 03:34 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
MagicK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Germany
But isn't music all about impulse and emotions? I had a list too, and the cn34 fulfilled all requirements but what if it hadn't felt right?

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#2050307 - 03/18/13 03:37 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
If you are inexperienced with pianos, you may not be best equipped to decide what is best for you or whether or not your intuitions are accurate. Just because something feels nicer or easy to play now, does not mean that it will be best for your progress or easier to play once your technique has improved.


Edited by debrucey (03/18/13 03:39 PM)

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#2050316 - 03/18/13 03:55 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: debrucey]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
So ? I think it's true, but how can I do ? Exept listen advices?

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#2050320 - 03/18/13 04:02 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
Exactly, listen to advice.

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#2050764 - 03/19/13 11:19 AM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
So I went in my shop today.
I try with headphones the CN34 and the CA65, and also a Roland HP505.
I try with the poor music I can do, but for me there is a big difference and for me the CA65 give the best sensation.
After sommebody play the same music on three, and it's the same report.

I think i'm going to buy the CA65, but there is two price :
2220€ without headphones, but with a good chair.
2270€ with a heaphones prodipe pro 580
In both cases, the piano is delivered gone up and tested.

Is this headphone good ?

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#2050786 - 03/19/13 12:04 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
Clayman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/13
Posts: 300
Loc: Prague, Czech Rep.
Never heard of these. A quick search suggests they are pretty standard circumaural headphones.

I would pick a pair from the Sennheiser stable but then again, I'm the one listening to FLAC instead of mid-rate MP3, which is what most of my friends settle for quite happily.


Edited by Clayman (03/19/13 12:05 PM)
_________________________
-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown

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#2050796 - 03/19/13 12:18 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: doume]
dmd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1891
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: doume
So I went in my shop today.
I try with headphones the CN34 and the CA65, and also a Roland HP505.
I try with the poor music I can do, but for me there is a big difference and for me the CA65 give the best sensation.
After sommebody play the same music on three, and it's the same report.

I think i'm going to buy the CA65, but there is two price :
2220€ without headphones, but with a good chair.
2270€ with a heaphones prodipe pro 580
In both cases, the piano is delivered gone up and tested.

Is this headphone good ?


Well, I googled those headphones and the reviews were bad.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2051003 - 03/19/13 05:29 PM Re: CN34 vs CA65 [Re: ilovespud]
doume Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 19
Loc: France in LYON
Yes i have seen that the reviews were bad.
It's for that reason than I want without headphones.
What do you think about this one : Grado SR-60i

doumé

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