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#1965521 - 09/27/12 10:16 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1974
Loc: Philadelphia area
How about glass with wooden bridge pins?

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#1965590 - 09/28/12 01:33 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1761
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: Robert Di Santo
Seems that the disrespect started with your continual slams.. and yet you keep coming back for more, how dumb are you? relaxe and try to digest what is the NEW technology to understand, like it or not, it is real.

Crackpot alert.

Kees

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#1965649 - 09/28/12 07:48 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Bob newbie,

We had access to a fazioli and wanted to compare a high end to a crude entry level piano. We didn't have another Story & Clark 1 was enough..
In person the results were obvious and we all heard the difference. The recording can't produce what was heard in person even tho this was 1 of dozens more tests we will be doing as more pianos are completed.
9' SD Baldwin is soon to be done by the new year. This grand will be the most accurate of all tests to date.
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965652 - 09/28/12 08:00 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Chris,

Glass is manufactured by man and cannot have the same or better qualities than the natural occurring mineral such as "STONE"



One other point to remember is that although you might expect an effect that is experienced equally in all directions, the piezoelectric effect is polarised.  In other words the quartz crystal might be struck from above(string vibration) but it gives out its charge horizontally and vertically, and vice versa.  Also, crystal is such a refined stone, refined in that its molecular structure – its atomic structure - is reflected in its outward pyramid shape, while granite is a composite stone. 

In fact the crystal shape suggests something of its inherent properties, for there are usually very well defined points and faces to a crystal and it is from these points that lines of power emanate from the stone as energy is transduced.

A quartz crystal transduces geomantic energy to chi, fire energy or prana or any combination of these.  It also transduces kinetic energy [being struck or vibrating] to electrical energy.  It can do all of these all at the same time, and all the reverse way round as well.  It never turns off.  If there is a difference in energy levels present then the crystal will transduce accordingly. 

A granite monolith, as it is partly comprised of quartz crystals, will do this as well. Similarities are easy.  Crystal is stone - granite is stone.  Electrical - piezoelectric effects and transducing effects in a crystal are the same with granite. Now let us turn our regard to stones.  The temptation is to liken a quartz crystal, just one type of stone, to another type of stone - granite.  Of course, having similar molecular properties there are basic similarities, besides being both ‘Stone’.  It would be most unusual otherwise, since granite is partly comprised of crystals.  The same kind of properties seem to be displayed so there is the obvious temptation to say that one can be used in a similar way as the other; the scale being the only real difference.

There is also the pattern that is established between the Earth body and the human body.  There are lines of power in both in that you have the ‘ley’ lines of the Earth body and ‘meridians’ of the human body - and the health of both bodies seem to be inextricably mixed with these lines.  The temptation is to equate the one with the other.  ( which has been noted when tuned to 444 )

Put those two together and you have a double temptation in that as you use quartz crystals on the human body so you may use granite on the Earth body. Our pyramid shape bridge can convert earth/ley line energy into seismic (acoustic) waves in a wide range of frequencies. Each pyramid shape or design has its own unique emitting frequency.


Edited by Robert Di Santo (09/28/12 08:01 AM)
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965657 - 09/28/12 08:09 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
We are in early stages of development and were not selling anything @ this time other than showing on a crude entry level piano this concept works and wanted to let others be aware of what's to evolve as we produce additional pianos of a better quality in the future. The next piano will be a 1965 Baldwin SD 9' concert grand recorded professionally.
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965666 - 09/28/12 08:32 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
http://youtu.be/Kr4gd7JWSzs < this clip has only 68 dampers (Clair de lune) compared to the other videos before Naples piano added 20 more dampers.

http://youtu.be/PFmEByS9Z0w Clair De Lune


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWiAbHCpKDg&feature=share&list=ULrWiAbHCpKDg Grieg Nocturne Op.54,No.4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JhOKO10ok&feature=share&list=ULn_JhOKO10ok Excerpt from Beethoven Moonlight


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCwKxCY6YhI&feature=share&list=ULyCwKxCY6YhI Excerpt from chopin Etude Op.10, No.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vk75CetScA&feature=share&list=UL4vk75CetScA Excerpt from Beethoven Adagio


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I91cxjEhzeU&feature=share&list=ULI91cxjEhzeU Ode to joy Wood Vs Granite



Edited by Robert Di Santo (09/28/12 08:34 AM)
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965674 - 09/28/12 09:00 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2055
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Robert Di Santo
A quartz crystal transduces geomantic energy to chi, fire energy or prana or any combination of these.  It also transduces kinetic energy [being struck or vibrating] to electrical energy.  It can do all of these all at the same time, and all the reverse way round as well.  It never turns off.  If there is a difference in energy levels present then the crystal will transduce accordingly. 


Robert

This is very exciting as I had never considered these things before.

Can you explain how the geomantic energy affects the sound? Or is it to do with transducing of power between the ‘ley’ lines of the Earth body (I presume this is the natural granite) and ‘meridians’ of the human body that have such a profound effect on our appreciation of music?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1965678 - 09/28/12 09:19 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Robert, back to the subject of facts in regards to the granite bridges... because granite is quite different from traditional wood two things would concern me in its application as a bridge.

First of all the feldspar and quartz are both extremely hard on the Mohs scale, harder than the steel wire sitting on it. Will the wire not get deformed, abraded or notched as it gets drawn back and forth across the termination points with the angular pressure of the strings downbearing?

Secondly, granite can have a relatively high PH, and will this alkalinity not promote corrosion on the steel wire next to it should conditions of higher than normal humidity exist (which would promote it)?
_________________________
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George Brown College /85
Niagara Region

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#1965679 - 09/28/12 09:22 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Emmery]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2055
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Robert, back to the subject of facts in regards to the granite bridges... because granite is quite different from traditional wood two things would concern me in its application as a bridge.

First of all the feldspar and quartz are both extremely hard on the Mohs scale, harder than the steel wire sitting on it. Will the wire not get deformed, abraded or notched as it gets drawn back and forth across the termination points with the angular pressure of the strings downbearing?

Secondly, granite can have a relatively high PH, and will this alkalinity not promote corrosion on the steel wire next to it should conditions of higher than normal humidity exist (which would promote it)?


Why not use agraffes?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1965685 - 09/28/12 09:32 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN


Stoneway & Sons have mined these pianos for years.

The strings are spun using only the finest Roslau Silk Worms and the hammers are hand-forged by Nibelungen. In the Organic Completion of the Cycle of the Earth, the bridges are harvested from the Wapin Forest on the 4th day, of the 4th month, every 4th year, using crystalline saws tuned to 444Hz.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#1965701 - 09/28/12 10:18 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty


Stoneway & Sons have mined these pianos for years.

The strings are spun using only the finest Roslau Silk Worms and the hammers are hand-forged by Nibelungen. In the Organic Completion of the Cycle of the Earth, the bridges are harvested from the Wapin Forest on the 4th day, of the 4th month, every 4th year, using crystalline saws tuned to 444Hz.


Do they make a Coriolis model of it that propogates sound waves equally well to the east (for people living south of the equator)? I also notice that it does not incorporate any water into the design and that many of the sharp corners point towards the bench in front of it..not very feng shui-ish. I suppose some musicians would like the idea of sitting down to it and getting "stoned", without having to indulge in more toxic substances.
_________________________
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Niagara Region

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#1965705 - 09/28/12 10:25 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Withindale,

First of all the feldspar and quartz are both extremely hard on the Mohs scale, harder than the steel wire sitting on it. Will the wire not get deformed, abraded or notched as it gets drawn back and forth across the termination points with the angular pressure of the strings downbearing?

Answer: No. the 1905 Baldwin has been strung since 2008 and we've had no problems.

Secondly, granite can have a relatively high PH, and will this alkalinity not promote corrosion on the steel wire next to it should conditions of higher than normal humidity exist (which would promote it)?

Answer: The humidity.


Why not use agraffes? Answer: Not necessary and has no place within our designs.



Only certain topics and questions I can discuss rather than divulge teachings of pertinent scientific facts we have discovered that are in direct relation with the patent pending on file as well as jeopardizing my international application as well. Once these files mature then I'll be able to directly converse on any level.


For now there is allot of information on this topic that you can explore to get a clear picture what is occurring using stone in the Bridge as I will try to answer as many questions as possible for anyone who finds this topic interesting.

Dr. Robert Youngquist and Dr. Stanley Starr Geological physicists Nasa applied scientists has directed us to the private sector of science that helped me understand a plethora of knowledge using granite in the bridge and how the degree of mass used relates to the excitement of the atoms within the stones matrix that responds to the down bearing pressure caused by the vibrating strings.





Edited by Robert Di Santo (09/28/12 10:26 AM)
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965713 - 09/28/12 10:51 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
DoelKees Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 1761
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: Robert Di Santo
A quartz crystal transduces geomantic energy to chi, fire energy or prana or any combination of these.  It also transduces kinetic energy [being struck or vibrating] to electrical energy.  It can do all of these all at the same time, and all the reverse way round as well.  It never turns off.  If there is a difference in energy levels present then the crystal will transduce accordingly.


LOL.

Don't forget that it changes you into a nine-year-old Hindu boy.

Kees

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#1965715 - 09/28/12 10:53 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2055
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Robert Di Santo
Why not use agraffes? Answer: Not necessary and has no place within our designs.


Richard Dain explains why agraffes are superior to pins in his patent.

The way you mount the pins can compromise the crystalline integrity of the granite at the point you need it most.

This may be the reason for a tendency to the stridently piercing quality to the sustain that is evident in your recordings.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1965725 - 09/28/12 11:16 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Roger Ransom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1281
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
If you want people to take you seriously, you need to drop the silly new age stuff. Fire energy, chi, prana, earth body etc. are not science in any way.

Try again.
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

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#1965731 - 09/28/12 11:21 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Withindale,

We have a process unlike the normal bridge pins that work great so far. Doesn't mean down the road we won't explore another process. Thank you for that information.

The ideas we've explored one way or the other are all a result of (Research and Development) and a stringent "process of elimination" we are involved with many assumptions that could produce more exciting results..

As far as the recording goes, Our intent was to see how the added mass and pyramid design compared to the stock baby grand with the additional dampers installed.

We posted the video for people to hear what was happening without saying THIS IS IT FOLKS.. not at all was that the intent as others draw there own conclusions.

This was recorded on a high end JVC video camera. We haven't completed a piano yet that warrants a professional recording as many have stated. But we intend to asap.


Edited by Robert Di Santo (09/28/12 11:22 AM)
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965733 - 09/28/12 11:24 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Roger ,

New age you say?.. This is not the forefront of my technology but interesting to see the relativity.

References to concepts analogous to the qi taken to be the life-process or flow of energy that sustains living beings are found in many belief systems, especially in Asia.

Philosophical conceptions of qi from the earliest records of Chinese philosophy (5th century BCE) correspond to Western notions of humours and the ancient Hindu yogic concept of prana, meaning "life force" in Sanskrit.

The earliest description of "force" in the current sense of vital energy is found in the Vedas of ancient India (circa 1500–1000 BCE),[7] and from the writings of the Chinese philosopher Mencius (4th century BCE).


Edited by Robert Di Santo (09/28/12 11:44 AM)
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965749 - 09/28/12 11:57 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Robert Di Santo
Chris,
Glass is manufactured by man and cannot have the same or better qualities than the natural occurring mineral such as "STONE"


Soapstone is natural too. So is sand. So is water. What about any of these things make them unsuitable to make bridges out of? And conversely, what intrinsic properties of granite make it better than glass to build bridges out of?

Natural does not automatically mean better. Anybody equipped with the ability to think critically can see that. You, sir... well perhaps you don't have that ability?
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1965751 - 09/28/12 11:58 AM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Roger Ransom]
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2481
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Roger, some of it is new age and alot of it is a bunch of malarky, but some of it isn't, or at least its not fully understood yet to make an assesment. This lack of clarity can be used in both ways, both to promote something, or to bring negative impact on it.

For instance, granite contains radiation. Would you be better off without it around you, or in your home, the answer would be yes, since any exposure to radiation is not good for you unless your undergoing chemo therapy or something that outweighs its negative effect. In perspective to other things however, it probably does not matter in the case of 10 lbs of granite in your home. So scientific evidence indicates one thing, yet our interpretation of the evidence in perspective to other things makes it almost meaningless....unless your purpose is to put a spin on it and target the fears/emotions of people. To the same extent, a spectrum analyser may pick up on additional partials or different spectrum using a granite bridge on the soundboard. A claim can be made that it does indeed change the sound we hear. But if the average person can't tell the difference on a double blind test, what is the practical purpose of venturing away from tradition.

I personally would not bother to partake in a test where I am already told beforehand what to expect. The power of suggestion is so strong that it totally defies the underlying principles of a proper test. This is why I stopped listening to sound files of unusual temperaments where it is accompanied with paragraphs of descriptive lauding gobblygook.


Edited by Emmery (09/28/12 11:58 AM)
_________________________
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#1965758 - 09/28/12 12:03 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Phil D]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2055
Loc: Suffolk, England
Originally Posted By: Phil D
Natural does not automatically mean better.

Phil, natural materials give a natural sound, synthetic materials give a synthetic sound. If you want synthetic sound why not not go for a digital instrument and then you can have as much sustain, or even swell, as you like?
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#1965760 - 09/28/12 12:05 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21818
Loc: Oakland
Wood is natural, too. Glass can be, like obsidian.
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Semipro Tech

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#1965763 - 09/28/12 12:16 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Isn't steel synthetic?

Edit: Maybe we should use spider silk instead. Or is animal-made not natural enough?


Edited by Phil D (09/28/12 12:18 PM)
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Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1965776 - 09/28/12 12:42 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Phil,

Glass is not a natural.
Sand is natural and is a derivative of stone.
Heated with a process by man to produce glass unlike granite.
Granite works exclusively for the important function of the bridge in the Piano.
Granite has more densities and variables to search out which is best for bass mid and treble registers than wood because of such stringent qualities limited sources.
Fazioli uses boxwood for the cap on there treble as the best source for that function.. I'm sure there was an extensive amount of tests to determine that.
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965786 - 09/28/12 01:21 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Please talk more about the intrinsic qualities of granite that make it more suitable than, say, boxwood. I'm sure Fazioli spent a lot of money on R&D to come up with that wood as the best material, researchers presenting facts, doing experiments.

But please understand that whether your material is natural or not is entirely irrelevant.
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1965787 - 09/28/12 01:21 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2445
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Lightning glass is natural.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
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#1965788 - 09/28/12 01:23 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2445
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Why not basalt? It's hard, has a more consistent crystalline matrix.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
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#1965794 - 09/28/12 01:39 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Maybe you need to research some more into this Phil since you have such a quick determination on a this technology.
You would understand this better if I could divulge more scientific facts other than the www.cymascope.com findings.
John Stuart Reid is in England, email him and see what he tells you.

As for lightning glass, it is natural from an "act of nature" and doesn't qualify it to be used as a material for a bridge in any piano.
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965797 - 09/28/12 01:46 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Phil D Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 551
Loc: London, England
Granite may be an excellent material for piano bridges.

But I'm not interested, because of the style of your presentation, as I believe a lot of others are too.
_________________________
Phil Dickson
The Cycling Piano Tuner

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#1965805 - 09/28/12 01:58 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Per the Density/specific Gravity: Basalt solid is @ 3011 Kg/cu - cm where granite is @ 2691 Kg/cu - cm

Example maple wood is 755Kg/cu - m

The properties of basalt isn't preferred for this use based on the mineral composition.
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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#1965806 - 09/28/12 01:59 PM Re: New Engineering concepts on Piano Sound production [Re: Robert Di Santo]
Robert Di Santo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 92
Loc: United States
Have a nice day Phil, isn't it tea time?
_________________________
Robert B. Di Santo
StoneTone®
Music of the earth®

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