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I think I didn't like it (in the trio) because it wasn't jazz. The song itself is nice.
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Back to our regular discussion...Sorry for the KJ interruption.
I understand what you mean about technique and having control of the groove. This has been and still is a big obstacle for me, but it's getting better I think. It's interesting what you say about practicing classical music for this purpose. I've recently started taking more of an interest in getting back to classical after not touching it since starting with jazz. But I feel like my technique has improved enough just playing jazz that it doesn't hinder me as much in classical as it used to. Makes it more enjoyable now, and you're right about being able to focus on developing technique in a musical way. It's helpful not being distracted by the improvisational process. I can see the benefits more clearly now.
I also agree about the importance of good ears. Only in the last year or two have I really started noticing improvement here, especially in keeping my place in the changes of tunes. It's as if they are more implanted in my mind and I'm more able to move around without the fear of losing the sound. Of course, I too only wish I could find half of what I'm imagining! I've worked a fair amount with Bruce Arnold's ear training method, and I try to practice singing melodies using numbers from time to time as well as humming along with myself while playing quite a bit.
One other thing I've always struggled with is remembering tunes. How are you with that? I can get the changes down more easily than the melodies for some reason. I am always astounded by the guys who seem to know every tune you throw at them and can play them well on a moments notice from memory. I somehow doubt I'll ever be very good at that. I guess maybe that comes from playing the same tunes on gigs night after night for years... something I'm just not doing.
Scott, I tend to relate your posts because of course I experience the same issues because of the gigs. But on the memorization side, some of the tunes I've done, I've repeated a zillion times and played in different keys. Seems to get easier. So even when I have to look at the changes, I really use it more as a security blanket. I think putting my feet to the fire forced me to memorize a lot of it. Then on melodies, I fear having a gig and missing one of the players so no one would play the head. Happened at the last gig last week. We said, who's playing the head. Sax said, I don't the head and I play it in D-. I said I can play the head in A- but heck if I'm going to try it for the first time live in a different key. So we ended up SHELVING it until the Singer took it in F-. This was actually one of the few I didn't know. Serves me right. I played with my teacher today in a duo. We jammed on Solar (uptempo) for a long time. I think I just crossed another Plateau. Teacher was grinning. Time was good and solo was really good he says. I was even doing 16ths! He gave me a new challenge today related to the content of the solos. We'll see if it's noticed. Gotta practice it first. All we can do is chip away. Chip. Chip. Chip. Hopefully it will all add up. Here in this thread, we can be all kindness to each other, but between you and I Scott, let's be detailed as we have always been in critique and I think we'll learn faster. A lot of what you say about me is right on.
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All we can do is chip away. Chip. Chip. Chip. Hopefully it will all add up.
...let's be detailed as we have always been in critique and I think we'll learn faster. Agreed. 
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Great report on KJ. I've only seen him solo. I'd love to see the trio, but they play Symphony Center in Chicago, and I'm reluctant to see jazz there. (I may make an exception this Spring for a Brad Mehldau/Joshua Redmon duet concert).
This Saturday we're going to see Herbie Hancock, who's playing solo. I'm a little dubious because I'm not a huge fan of most of his recent projects; don't hate them, but just not that exciting. I have the box set of his complete BlueNote recordings, which I HIGHLY recommend. It just doesn't get better than that stuff. Jjo, I'm curious why you don't want to see jazz at the Symphony Center? I'm hoping to catch Mehldau and Redman there in the spring also. Give us a report on the Herbie Hancock concert tomorrow. Being that it's solo, I'll bet it's pretty good. I wanted to go but just can't swing the tickets right now, since I'm still rather under-employed.
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I think I didn't like it (in the trio) because it wasn't jazz.  What was it then? Sounds like jazz to me.
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I think I didn't like it (in the trio) because it wasn't jazz. What was it then? Sounds like jazz to me. You know KJ, he sneaks in pop/gospel. Doesn't swing and it's not latin. BTW - Scott, must be a challenge to uproot yourself and restart building students again from scratch. I hope that picks up soon for you.
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All we can do is chip away. Chip. Chip. Chip. Hopefully it will all add up.
Won't it just add up to a pile of chips? That can't be good, unless you're watching the game on TV. I make myself laugh, and that's enough for me.
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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Yeah Scep, why do we do this? Even Beeboss spends hours a day and he doesn't translate this into performing live and making big bucks. I suppose it's better than putting our energy into thinking about robbing banks or invading countries.
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Yeah Scep, why do we do this? Even Beeboss spends hours a day and he doesn't translate this into performing live and making big bucks.
It's obvious for me that I don't have a choice, and perhaps many others don't either. You either have the desire, passion and drive to create music or you don't. I do envy those that have musical talent, but choose to allow their lives to unfold without having to be a slave to music. For me, I can't imagine not being able to play everyday. Creation takes it's toll, as we all know (or will find out).
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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Well usually, we develop our music skill to demonstrate it in performance. But what's funny is, and as proven in this thread, we develop are skill as the end-all in itself. It's almost like performance is just a side benefit. Of course, we share among ourselves here so in a limited since we do perform but the payback is some limited acknowledgement by peers. Amazing actually. I still practice 2-3 hours a day. I still have organized practice activities. I pretty much forget WHY I am doing it. 
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Scott:
Years ago I subscribed the the Chicago Symphony Center series, but I find it too formal an atmosphere. Partially, I don't like the big space. I also think the musicians sometimes play stiffly. If you've got two sets a night for several nights, you can play loose and try things. But in symphony center, it's different. Don't get me wrong; I've really enjoyed some concerts there and they get great artists. But I found that if I spent my money there, I was less likely to go to clubs or smaller venues, which is where my favorite concerts take place. I recently heard Pat Metheny and Larry Grenadier at the Old Town School of Folk Music, for example, and it was transcendent, in part because of the intamacy of the space. Herbie Hancock is playing a medium sized concert venue where I've been before, and it's big, but still much more intimate than symphony center. I'll be sure to post a report.
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Yeah Scep, why do we do this? Even Beeboss spends hours a day and he doesn't translate this into performing live and making big bucks.
It's obvious for me that I don't have a choice, and perhaps many others don't either. You either have the desire, passion and drive to create music or you don't. I do envy those that have musical talent, but choose to allow their lives to unfold without having to be a slave to music. For me, I can't imagine not being able to play everyday. Creation takes it's toll, as we all know (or will find out). We feel an urge to be creative so we create. Playing music is enjoyable, and what better way to spend your time than doing something enjoyable. There can't be many who play jazz for the money or the fame.
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There can't be many who play jazz for the money or the fame. Is this an observation or a rule? Either way, so true. Yet I among other music teachers consistently push the jazz program in schools because we feel that the music has such value compared to pop, rock or other 'less serious' music. Of course, if you want to be a star, best to avoid jazz altogether if you have musical talent. The few like Diana Krall (singer) and Michael Buble (singer, and both from Canada, btw) have managed to cross over somewhat and appeal to the fringe crowd that wants to say they like jazz, and in the process have made more money than many jazz musicians from this era. These guys are similar to Dave Brubeck in the 60s. Let's none of us bring up Kenny G lest the thread become locked.
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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Kenny G - no chance of getting locked because who would disagree? LOL... Well, you know what, I'm really glad we this little oasis to exchange thoughts on jazz. My family doesn't particularly enjoy jazz so I would feel really bad about not being able to exchange thoughts. But can't just be thoughts. Let's do music..so here's another try at Solar at a faster tempo. A bit more of a challenge. I felt better in control of the tune but the faster tempo raises the stakes again. I may study this more closely to see what it is that causes me to lose control when I increase the tempo. Maybe I'll use a slowdown-program. Solarhttp://www.box.net/shared/qmlcn7rjtdxfm3nv3bhjI may try to record a lower tempo version for the recital.
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JW, it seems that there are two things that are making you lose control. The first (which I'm always guilty of) is not having the technique for the faster runs in real time (2:50ish) as opposed to practicing them outside a tune, and the second is playing some wrong note choices and having to adjust the line accordingly, which throws off the timing a bit. I notice it especially when you are doing a very large leap of an interval that doesn't compliment the chord you're on or the chord you're going to. Listen to those sections and see if you agree. One thing that I tell my hot shot guitar students who can play licks a mile a minute is to sing something that they are playing at the same time to see if the hands are doing something or the ears are leading the hands. In most cases when people try to hear in real time, rather than listening to the last thing they did, the results become much more melodic. And perhaps the leaps you are doing will have proper intervals, (or resolutions/cadences) so they don't sound out of place.
Last edited by scepticalforumguy; 10/29/11 12:44 AM. Reason: additional thought
Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.
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Those are true but I think there's more. When I don't come in to the beat at the moment when my ear expects it, it throws everything off. I don't have this problem when I played it a tad slower like 180bpm. It affects my hearing of the phrase. It's all about the ear, and you're confirming it.
I'm just associating it with a different thing. That's why I want to slow it down with software. It could mean that my ear wanted to start the phrase at a specific point and my fingers hesitated.
I do like increasing the tempo to identify issues like this. This particular tune is hard to do uptempo for some reason. Never been comfortable with it. I want to solve this because at the last gig, my bassist played Solar too fast and I felt the same issues so this nails the problem area. I just have to figure out how to attack it.
There's a different phrasing and syncopation for uptempo and my ear is a bit confused on how to attack it. Probably less confused at 240bpm since there are less choices. There's a no man's land of tempo that is difficult. Hard with triplet sixteenths, but too slow on eighths. I think this is the no-mans land.
I'm going to record this again this weekend and see if I figure it out.
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Well played JW. Your single line improvising is sounding better and better. I think you could easily improve the overall with a bit more attention to the left hand. Basically it just does the same thing throughout without much rhythmic or dynamic variation. Even the voicings barely change. I know you are focusing on the RH but it shows. I would suggest when you practice you experiment with some different approaches to the LH. Try ... - no LH - very very sharp quiet staccato LH only - try just using 1 note or 2 notes in the LH, just to get away from using the same voicing all the time - experiment with more different voicing - get a few juicy alt dominant voicing in there and reinforce them with the RH line These are not complicated and you should be able to focus almost entirely on the RH lines while experimenting with these.
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Well played JW. Your single line improvising is sounding better and better. I think you could easily improve the overall with a bit more attention to the left hand. Basically it just does the same thing throughout without much rhythmic or dynamic variation. Even the voicings barely change. I know you are focusing on the RH but it shows. I would suggest when you practice you experiment with some different approaches to the LH. Try ... - no LH - very very sharp quiet staccato LH only - try just using 1 note or 2 notes in the LH, just to get away from using the same voicing all the time - experiment with more different voicing - get a few juicy alt dominant voicing in there and reinforce them with the RH line These are not complicated and you should be able to focus almost entirely on the RH lines while experimenting with these. Very helpful Beeboss. Frankly, I'm not paying attention to my LH. These are so specific that I actually can practice that. Yeah I know how to do all of them so it's just a matter of execution. I think this is the first time I've heard anyone say something specific about the LH so this is great. Thanks!
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Years ago I subscribed the the Chicago Symphony Center series, but I find it too formal an atmosphere. I see what you mean. I don't think I would go there for alot of things either for the same reasons you mentioned. Some of my favorite concerts were at small venues for sure, like Kenny Werner at the Green Mill and Ahmad Jamal at Blues Alley in DC. I don't worry about it with Keith though, simply just because he's just great no matter where he plays, and really I don't have a choice since there aren't alot if any opportunities to hear him at a smaller venue.
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