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Emissary:

THANK YOU for your explanations of the history of the songs. I had NO IDEA!! I'm a Baby Boomer too, but did not realize about Scarborough Fair..nor Raisins. Makes me appreciate them all the more! I love SF--and melody and background harmonies in that song.

There is so much to learn and it is so exciting! That is one thing that I appreciate--the experience of the learning of the piano and/or songs is ALMOST (and I repeat ALMOST) as good as mastering a song.

I'm working on The Entertainer now, bought myself a digital recorder and will attempt to record myself. I find that learning the Entertainer gives me a greater insight on the rhythms--how both hands work together to give a specific outcome. It's pretty cool! I'm not looking forward to those triplets in Amazing Grace..but will carry on!

I CAN'T WAIT TO PUT THE GRADUATE SIGNATURE ON MY POSTS!!!! But I must be patient!! :-)

Enjoy!!

Nancy

nancymae - I find that when I know the history of the song, I tend to work on it more and end up playing it better. I worked on Raisins and Almonds as if Steven Spielberg was planning to use it in the soundtrack to Schindler's List.

I'm going to spend alot of time with The Entertainer and Amazing Grace perfect them, even if it means delaying moving on to Book 2 until sometime in mid-July. I've got The Entertainer almost there and can go through AG at a good pace. Those triplets aren't so bad, but are a little overdone! Poor Willard Palmer and the rest of the crew ...everyone's a critic! LOL!

I've tried recording my performances, my piano has it built in. But I get sooo nervous as soon as I hit the record button, that I make 100 times more mistakes. It's as if I found myself naked in Carnegie Hall with a broken Steinway Grand in front of 2300 people and Clint Eastwood is holding a gun to my head saying "You better not make a mistake, Buster!" Oh well, I'll just have to try it a few more times until I relax a bit. I played part of The Entertainer over the phone to my brother and he thought it sounded pretty good. So it's back to the piano or a partial NCIS rerun!

Emissary52--

Your recording is JUST THE SAME AS MINE!!! I feel like my hands are wobbly spaghetti when I hit the dreaded 'record' button! My hat goes off to GracieCat for being able to record.

That is such an awesome way to feel about doing the songs...like you are doing them for a soundtrack, not just trudging along, but putting some feeling into it. I practiced R & A last night..and it's amazing how, when your attitude changes, your playing changes as well.

I wonder how the stars deal with the fact that they play the same pieces for 20-30 years...like Elton John and Billy Joel? How do they keep the passion for the song? Off topic...I know. Just wondering.

Good luck on your recording adventures..if I ever get a recording I'll be sure to post!

Nancy

Nancy - I find that the more emotional "hooks" I can get into a song, the better I play it. Playing the piano is its own "internal passion" of sorts. The more "life" you can breathe into a musical piece, the better you can play it whether it's from Alfred's or one of Chopin's glorious creations.

Here's some motivational sources just for "Raisins and Almond"

Sung by Netania Davrath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdKkPupLiYM

Jane Seymour singing it to her son in "War and Remembrance"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b3hxYFB068&feature=related

Music doesn't really exist in an emotional vacuum! I suspect that the authors of Alfred's are as much influenced by popular culture as the rest of us. I doubt some of the selections in Alfred's that we are now working on wouldn't be in the book without artists that popularized them in one form or another.

Scarborough Fair - If Simon and Garfunkel had not sung Scarborough Fair/Canticle in 1968, I doubt we'd be playing it.

The Entertainer - Without Marvin Hamlish's piano version integrated into the movie "The Sting", it wouldn't be in the book.

Amazing Grace - If Judy Collins hadn't made it a hit in 1971, I don't think it would be played at every policeman's and fireman's funeral as well as Mr. Spock's and it wouldn't be in the book either!

Your question about keeping performances fresh is certainly relevant and not off-topic at all. I do it myself with our limited repertoire of pieces like BTMD and Can-Can. LOL! In the case of artists like Elton John and Billy Joel, I think they view their songs like "children" who must be constantly nourished and grow and change with time!

As far as an emotional hooks in a song, here is an example by Judy Collins singing a song she composed about the suicide of her 33 year old son in 1994. I don't see how she can perform it without crying through it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK6FWx675m4

- Craig

Doug, you on vacation?

Nancy, do you have any recordings to share? Can't wait to hear something. It doesn't have to be perfect. We all make our share of blunders on the keys.

I like seeing a bunch of people posting here.

DayDreamer, just hang in there with the kiddie songs. You'll be past that quickly enough. I'm not crazy about the songs either, but frankly, I can't begin to play anything that I actually do like. Seriously, who over the age of 6 like "When The Saints Go Marching In"? It's just getting the basics under your belt. Find a good easy supplemental book that you'll enjoy. Not something hard that you'll get frustrated with though.

I've been playing piano for 6 months and I couldn't begin to touch Marriage D' Amour. Maybe after another 1-1.5 years.

I don't remember where I was before I left on vacation. BUT, I've finished The Stranger and Go Down Moses. I'm polishing Scarborough Fair as I can't seem to get the 9th measure down, and I've been neglecting the pedal for the most part. Only 3 more songs left till I'm finished the book! (I'm almost done with Amazing Grace too.)

I also started "Beauty and the Beast" from Alfreds Greatest Hits book. It's easy enough for me to learn and polish in about 4 days with not much practice. Well, it's still choppy so maybe it'll take a few more days. I don't even like this music, but between you and I...I enjoyed playing it.

Nope, just hanging around enjoying the conversations between everyone while I plug away at the last bunch of pieces in the book. We don't take our vacation until after school resumes in September.

I just got back from my lesson and am happy to report that I have finally got passed on O Sole Mio!. That one took a long time, teacher was being a real stickler on the pedaling and dynamics and each lesson seemed to reveal a new flaw. Glad to be past that one at last. I also got passed on The Stranger. I would have to say that was probably the toughest one in the book so far; it has so many things going on - melody switching hands, dynamic changes between hands and on the repeated lines, changing rhythms, and on and on. I liked all of the pieces from the jazz rock book so far but that one didn't do much for me. I probably won't play that one again.

I also got passed on Greensleeves as it is written in the book but he has me trying an arpeggiated chord instead of the block chords. When he demonstrates it it makes this piece sound WAY better. It goes like this - 1-3-5-3-5-3 1-3-5-3-5-3 and needs to be played softly compared to the melody.

I have been working on Go Down Moses and need to polish it a bit more in the dynamics and am almost there on Scarborough Fair. GracieCat, I know what you mean about the 9th measure. Sometimes I get it right and other times I have to stop and think about it. Gotta smooth that out. Still working on adding the pedal too. I really like this piece.

I have also started Raisins and Almonds and should get that one pretty quickly since it's very similar to Scarborough Fair, rhythmically. He assigned He's Got The Whole World (we need pieces with shorter titles!) and wants me to be able to do it with straight eighths and swing eighths.

We also decided I should pick a new supplemental piece to work on since I have lost interest in What A Wonderful World. I still work on it but only a couple times a week. I will return to it in a few months. I am looking through the Greatest Hits book for something to work on.

Oh, and I finally bought the Level 2 book. It felt quite satisfying to get to the point where I felt it was time to order it.

Thanks for the idea on Greensleeves. I just tried it and it's MUCH more interesting to play like that! I wasn't going to polish this one until Christmas, but I'll go ahead and work on it with broken chords. It's kinda tricky but with some work it'll be worth it.

Started that video course today that I bought a little while back. Didn't learn anything during the first session as it was just the basics, but I did teach my child to play When the Saints Go Marching In.

Haven't bought book #2 yet. If I do I know I'll start working ahead in it.

Welcome back Doug!

It sounds like you found a good teacher! He gave you a great hint of what's to come in Alfred's using that left-handed accompanyment for Greensleeves. It's call Alberti Bass and is used extensively in many classical and pop pieces. Everybody and their grandmother from Mozart to Carole King has employed it! So if you can master that you'll be ahead of the game. Alfred's doesn't even mention it until Book 3!!! I must be an optimist - I bought all 3 books at the same time. Whenever I play Greensleeves I change that F# in the third measure to an F. That F# just sounds "off" to me!

Doug - I think that one of the problems with measure 9 in Scarborough Fair is, that after playing all those D minor chords, your brain is just primed to keep playing another one. From a left-handed point of view, its just a second inversion of a G chord DGB. I think the authors used it because if you had to play a regular G chord GBD from our famous "G home position", it would screw up the repeating D bass line and make it sound clunky without that repeating harp-like arpeggio effect. I've noticed alot of non-Alfred songs also use this chord inversion technique so you don't have to have your hands flailing about, to find a "distant chord". Think G chord when you hit that spot! I hope this long-winded explanation helps.

- Craig

Yup, that's what he called it! I couldn't remember the name of it.

It's interesting that it doesn't come up until book 3. It's something I have heard often and like the sound of. Getting the hang of it will be a challenge but as you say definitely worth it.

Thanks for the explanation of the chord changes in SF. Makes sense.

I think it helps that they know those songs are what keeps people coming to their shows and paying their bills..

How true AimeoO! Familiarity is a kind of comfort!

Hey guys,
New to this thread nice to meet you. I started playing piano a couple weeks ago, and am also using Alfred's book I.
I'm really surprised it's such a popular book! I just went to the music store and liked the diagrams and such inside the book and arbitrarily picked it up.

I am on the alpine song now. I have been here for a couple days now- not because I find the song difficult, but rather I don't like the following "middle 'C'" position. I was already thrown off when they switched from "C" to "G" but I figured they would link them together or something. Instead they introduced this awkward position where you have two fingers on the same key!! I think I will sharpen my note reading skills before moving on, as I find these different positions greatly confusing.

Anyways thats my introduction and my thoughts on the book so far It is pretty easy to follow and enjoy it way more than my "learn and master piano" DVD (in which I think the instructor has an ego which is way too big).

Also, I was wondering if I should seek an actual piano instructor. I was going to wait until I hit a road block in my book learning, but on the other hand I don't want to damage technique and have to repair it later. What are your thoughts?

xiangjiao

*edit: I also have the Alfred's greatest hits level one book, which is supposed to go with the learning book, but I find the songs in there much more... awkward to play.
I think the songs in the book seem familiar because they correspond with the lessons and seem to be in a progressive order. Contrastively, the greatest hits book seems much more unfamiliar, and I find myself unable to play the songs in it. Anyone else have similar trouble?

xiangjiao, I was thrown by the "C" position too, figuring that I had enough trouble remembering where to put my fingers with C & G, but you are right - it does all tie together and the "positions" are just a beginner thing. There's no hurry, so don't move on until you are comfortable.

As for the "Greatest Hits" book, yes, the pieces in there are more difficult than the lesson book, and I had a hard time playing them at first. But since most of the pieces are familiar to me, it is fun learning how to play them. Maybe just get a little further in the lesson book before going back to them.

A teacher would surely help, although I don't have one myself.

Welcome to the thread xiangjiao!

Just "play along" with the hand positions thing. Like mom3gram said, it's only a temporary thing to get you familiar with starting positions on the keyboard. Before long they won't refer to them any more.

I also have the Greatest Hits book and am not a big fan of it. They are greatly simplified versions of the pieces and to me they don't sound very good either. Some of them are harder to play than others and even when Alfred's says you are ready to play them they might be a little harder than expected.

I highly recommend a teacher if you are able to do so. There have been more times than I can count that I would have sworn I was playing something correctly (even after comparing it to the CD rendition) and my teacher showed me that I was not. He has also been a great source of motivation and encouragement. I can honestly say that I probably would not have made myself pay as much attention to the details (like dynamics) as he has made me do. I was very lucky to find a good teacher that makes lessons something I look forward to.

Hi xiangjiao!

I'm finding that finger positions are something you should definitely just go along with. Sometimes they're to help maintain your form, or to help you play a piece smoothly. Sometimes it's just not apparent at the time

I agree with Doug and mom3gram on the teacher - if you can, get one. Like Doug, sometimes I'll be off on a piece and not even know. I waited until I hit a wall (which was Little Brown Jug, by the way), but I wish now I'd gone to one sooner. Not only have I been moving along at a faster pace (being ready for that next lesson is a great motivator), I'm getting exposed to different pieces.

Regardless, welcome and congrats on starting piano!

Aimee

Emissary52, I also think the F# (3rd measure) in Greensleeves does sound a little off. I would go as far as to say the whole song sounds off played in A minor. I went and searched to find other scores written in the same key and found one the same except they don't sharpen the F in the 3rd measure treble line, but they do sharpen the other F's in the score. Interesting. Link here.

I agree with everyone else. Hand positions are just a starting point to get you familiar with what keys are what notes.

xiangjiao, welcome! I agree with your thoughts on the Greatest Hits book. I'm now on page 138 of Alfred's All-In-One book (Raisins and Almonds) and have just now started to play in the Greatest Hits book. If I go slowly and concentrate, I can play through several songs (with several errors and with a slow uneven tempo). But none the less, I can get through them. For me, the songs are uninspiring, but at this stage in the game I don't have the skill to play anything I think is inspiring. Know what I mean?

I found the song on page 18 is relatively easy. Take it slow. You mostly only use 10 fingers without moving, with the exception of 3 spots. No pedal, no dynamic change, and when one hand is moving, generally the other hand is not.

I know what you mean. How can they possibly play the same songs 75,000 times without feeling totally bored with them. Maybe the inspiration is money. I'd smile all the way to the bank. Hope to hear some recordings soon.

:-) Graciecat!! Yes, I'm going to work very hard this weekend not to freak out when I hit that dreaded RECORD BUTTON!! I signed up for that Box.net..so I'm set! Just need my fingers not to act like spaghetti!

I do have other news though.....I work for a family that owns a ranch in NE Wisconsin. I work and get to live here as well. We are 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. I see more animals than I do people in the winter. Today one of the family GAVE me a GRAND PIANO!!! (No more dining room...now it's a MUSIC ROOM!) It's a Chickering & Son's, from approximately 1918. I will need to get it in tune--it hasn't been tuned in quite some time..and the action on a couple of keys is a bit off...but the Piano Forum told me about this online place where you can get certified technicians.

Soooooo....I practiced during lunch...what a difference it is from my keyboard...you really have to hit those keys! I will work at it this weekend. I did play Greensleeves, Can Can, Ole Sole Mio, Scarborough Faire...it was AWESOME!!!

WHAT A WONDERFUL GIFT!!!!!!!

Just wanted to share with everyone!

Nancy

Wow! That IS an awesome gift. Enjoy!

Congratulations Nancy! That's a great gift and something you will enjoy for years to come.

When I started learning piano last year I bought my digital piano and told myself it would be all I would ever need and I had no interest whatsoever in an acoustic. I read post after post in the forum of how once you played an acoustic the digital would never feel the same. I said hogwash, I love my digital and would never consider an acoustic.

Well now that I've had about 6 months of lessons on a Yamaha Studio Upright I can say, they were right. The acoustic has a much different feel and now I find myself looking at ads for acoustics every week just to see what's available. We don't have room for one right now but maybe someday the pool table will find itself looking for a new home to make room for an acoustic.

You're very lucky Nancy.

Enjoy your new piano Nancy!

Doug, you know what we did with our pool table? We put our table up on heavy duty casters so we could move it. It's in our basement and the kids have their train table there too. There isn't quite enough room for both so the pool table is moved some when we want to use it. (We don't play that often.)

Probably not something I'd do to a nice new table though. Ours is old.