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986,

B986,

You have a more discerning ear than mine! I can hear a "night and day" difference when comparing the treble sustain in my piano with the videos of instruments with granite bridges, but not at middle C#.

Maybe pianos to come will have better treble sustain as a result of improved bridges, or the Phoenix and weighting approaches you have mentioned.

Robert, I guess it's time to wait and see what happens. This thread is overdone and all I can do is wish you the best of luck.

I just sent you a PM.

New Engineering Concepts on Sound Production
presented by the Piano Technicians Guild, Chicago Chapter


PianoForte Salon, 410 S. Michigan Ave., Studio 825
Open to the public

Stonetone® Music, Inc. has launched a revolutionary new concept in piano design, allowing for greater clarity of sound, sustain and register integration of the entire keyboard range. This is achieved by the direct and efficient transference of string vibrations through granite bridges to the soundboard.

Thomas Zoells president of Pianoforte Chicago has made this piano available for Artists, Technicians and anyone one who would like to play this prototype and witness this technology "hands on" this piano can be observed on the 3rd floor of the pianoforte establishment.


www.pianofortefoundation.org

©2012 PianoForte Foundation | 408 S. Michigan Ave. | Chicago, IL 60605 | 312.291.0291

I would like to thank all the folks here and throughout the piano forum who acknowledged and/or participated on this topic post or non post.
We will post further results as they arrive.

What is the date and time of the PTG presentation?

Marty, Can you contact the PTG Chicago chapter for more info? I'm not a PTG member.

Dave,

It wasn't directed to you. It was in the posting from R. D'S and I was asking him.

It was two Tuesdays ago.

Page 3 of the Wippenpost October issue. Chicago Chapter PTG

REVIEW of the SEPTEMBER
CHAPTER MEETING
by Jeff Cappelli, RPT


Dr Richard Bosworth (long ago a classmate at IU) and
Robert DiSanto of Stone Tone Music, came to Chicago
to show off Mr DiSanto’s solid granite treble bridge and
granite-capped bass bridge, which he installed on a Story
and Clark production piano. Thomas Zoells acted as host
at his beautiful Pianoforte Salon in the Fine Arts Building,
where Dr Bosworth drew interesting tonal comparisons
between a new Shigeru Kawai 7’6” grand and a production
model Story and Clark small grand, modified with the new
bridge material.


It was quite clear that for the Story and Clark, the before
and after samplings (the former recorded) were of vastly
different sound qualities—the latter being more in focus,
with greater sustain. The granite bridge did produce a
lovely, clear sound at lower dynamic levels. Mr DiSanto
commented that the project will require further R&D.


Many questions arose during the evening about how the
mass of the bridges and the sensitive nature of the piano
soundboard might coexist over long periods of time. This
made for energized conversation, with interesting
observations and comments from several of the
technicians present.


Future innovation is essential in all industries and we are
delighted to have had the opportunity to visit with these
two—now pioneers in piano technology. As this is the
beginning of their journey, there will undoubtedly be more
discovery and developments in the future. Perhaps one
day we will see more modifications intended to transfer
energy as efficiently as possible to the soundboard—and to
our curious, waiting ears.

Jeff

Hello Folks,
I am posting Novembers issue of the Slippery Rock Gazettes follow up article of Our presentation @ the Fine Arts Bldg. Chicago Sept. 18th.
Some pictures are available on the article itself.
We have some wonderful advancements to share soon 2013.




At Stonetone Music, the Granite Speaks for Itself

Stacy B. Williams

Special Correspondent

The Slippery Rock recently caught up with stone mason and inventor Robert DiSanto and pianist Dr. Richard Bosworth of Stonetone® Music, Inc. in Naples, Florida.

They have been quite busy over the last year and a half, but have made significant progress in the research phase of their granite piano bridge prototype.

This means they have been asking a lot of questions.

Being the meticulous artists that they are, Stonetone® is strategically making headway into the piano industry one question at a time. Although the experimental process is still in its inception, the response to the Stonetone® modified pianos has been overwhelmingly positive.

The two prototypes have performed extremely well in two recent experiments: one for a live audience of piano technicians and one for a Cymascope, an impressive scientific instrument that creates images of sound waves.

In September, DiSanto and Bosworth had an in-depth meeting with some of the top piano technicians in the Midwest at the PianoForte Foundation in Chicago. Their second prototype, the Story and Clark baby grand, was the showcase piece at the presentation. After three and a half weeks on the road from Naples, the Story and Clark finally arrived in Chicago ready for its debut.

“I think it stopped in every major city along the way and it didn’t go out of tune!” exclaimed DiSanto.

Thomas Zoells, Founder and Executive Director of the PianoForte Chicago, said the meeting was “a lively one with many questions.” It was an important learning experience for everyone involved.

After the presentation, many of the audience members (some of whom are pianists turned technicians) had the opportunity to test the entry-level Story and Clark against a handmade 7 1/2-foot Shigeru Kawai, known in the industry as a luxury piano. DiSanto said that this comparison was not ideal because it was like comparing a Corvette and a Pinto, but the difference was still incredibly pronounced.

“There were a lot of wide eyes,” said Bosworth, “It was just one Kodak moment after another.”

Piano tuner and technician Daniel Koehler, agrees, along with his colleagues, that granite bridges are superior in their sustaining quality. What the granite bridge can do for the piano sound pattern is the key to its success.

DiSanto explains that the sound pattern of wood bridges is attack, decay, sustain, release (ADSR). But with a granite bridge, the pattern becomes attack, sustain, decay, release (ASDR). So by sustaining the initial attack of the notes in a chord, one is able to hear all the tones for the same length of time rather than the treble range dying out first.

“The finest pianos have this laser-beam kind of tone, with a clean crisp sound, much like a vocal, dolce sweet quality,” says Bosworth, an acclaimed pianist.

StoneTone®’s exciting mission to create this kind of tone by using a modified granite bridge has passed several tests with flying colors, (specifically a purple hue) as seen in a Cymascope test (see photo).

They commissioned this Cymascope test with six different piano samples: four of them with wood bridges and StoneTone®’s two prototypes.

The Cymascope still image of the middle C-sharp note on the Story and Clark looks like a pretty fractal, but it actually represents all the harmonic overtones associated with that string as shown by the sustainability of the note.

The outer edges of the imprint express the principal sounding tone (middle C-sharp) and the center shapes express the overtone series (secondary pitches vibrating in fractional ratios, which add the color to the sound), DiSanto explains. Therefore, the granite is capable not only of sustaining the note, but it also allows the “full bouquet” to be heard more clearly.

Stonetone® deservedly feels confident moving forward as they are able to hear and scientifically see the difference between the traditional wood bridge and their granite bridge. There are numerous advantages to the increased presence of partial tones in each key, allowing more intricate pieces like polyphonic music to be heard in a refined manner.

Polyphonic music is composed of several independent voices or instruments constructed in a simultaneous manner. Johann Sebastian Bach is famous for these polyphonic compositions, and with a modified granite bridge, people may actually be able to hear them as they were written.

Bosworth admits that he has become more interested in playing polyphonic pieces on the Stonetone® prototypes because of the multilayered sound quality.

“Think of it like a can of worms… you follow one worm and there’s another one on top of that one,” says Bosworth, “so you hear these different musical lines, where one is going and you can hear another one underneath it, and all these subtleties of how the different tones relate to each other.”

The research team will continue to use volcano absolute black granite in their prototypes until, by process of elimination, they can conclude what the most superior granite may be for sustaining sound quality in the test pianos. Absolute black granite, with its amazing strength and high level of density, is an ideal benchmark because of its unalterable qualities.

“Whether I purchased a slab today or forty years from now, it would still be the consistent mineral that it is,” says DiSanto.

DiSanto knows a thing or two about stone, but Stonetone® is interested in networking with experts across related fields. He has been in communication with Dr. Stanley Starr and Dr. Robert Youngquist of the NASA Kennedy Space Center about the energy of sound and its relationship to stone.

Both experts (a physicist and a geologist, respectively) agree that granite is the best transducer to get the string energy to the soundboard, which is the amplifier of the instrument, says DiSanto. Youngquist and Starr have been encouraging of the Stonetone® technology.

Moving forward, Stonetone® agrees that one of the biggest challenges will be re-educating the public on the preconceptions of what is an optimal musical material and why. Traditionally, the piano maker’s mantra is “If it’s not wood, it’s not good.” And as StoneTone’s concept development continues to defy that statement, they may also want to prove to the stone industry that granite is ideal for sound.

If any people are prepared to tackle this project, it is the team of DiSanto (inventor), Bosworth (media relations and performer) and Koehler (piano technician). Their combined expertise and passion for stone, music and mechanics creates the perfect recipe for this musical mission.

At this point, a myriad of possibilities await the Stonetone® crew, and they all agree there is a long process of elimination ahead.

“That’s where the exciting part comes in, because there’s a lot to discover,” says DiSanto.

As for the modified Story and Clark piano, it will sit humbly on display in Chicago waiting for someone to play its keys. After all the questions that have been posed, the granite continues to speak for itself.

Zoells has shown the Stonetone® modified Story and Clark to select pianists and technicians. Soon the piano will be moved to the main showroom next to a similar entry-level wood bridge piano to order to truly exhibit the differences. The Stonetone® modified piano will stay on display at the PianoForte Foundation until February 2013.

Zoells believes that with a little more research and development to refine the granite bridge design in a higher quality piano, it is likely that manufacturers could adopt this technology to enhance their pianos.

“What effect it might have on high quality pianos remains to be seen,” says Zoells.

Like the strings of the Stonetone® modified Story and Clark, I guess we’ll just stay tuned.

For more information, contact Dr. Richard Bosworth, Media Relations for Stonetone® Music, Inc. at richard@richardbosworth.org or 239-919-6414.

Watch the Cymascope middle C-sharp test on www.youtube.com

I am in Chicago right now. I took the time to go and look at this piano with a granite bridge. Here is "MY opinion of it."

I listened to it carefully. I played every single note many times going up and down the scale listening closely, how a technician would listen, listening to the sound, the tone, the evenness of the tone and the projection of the tone, and of the piano itself all of which I thought was lacking. I listened to the power from the hammers and thought that too was lacking.

I found erroneous nasally nasty sounds and buzzes here and there.

The over all tone of the piano was not even, especially when the bass turns into the tenor. I thought there was a very noticeable clash from the bass going into the tenor. Not a nice, smooth evenness as it enters the tenor section.

Not to mention, the piano was out of tune.

I was most unimpressed with the fact that the dampers go all the way up to C8! Making it virtually impossible to use mutes of any kind up in that section of the piano. The dampers are smack dab in the way up there. It would be miserable to tune up there.

I was not impressed at all with this piano. I did not think it sustained any better with a granite bridge.

Also, many of the bass dampers are not shutting off.

Over all? I was not in the LEAST impressed.

Again, that is my personal opinion of that piano.

Thanks for the report Jerry.

So the tone was somewhere between a ROCK and a HARD PLACE? hehee

Ok now that was funny!

Jerry,

This is a Indonesian made piano... REMEMBER?? 1st off, thank you for taking your time to observe this new cutting edge technology. Were you expecting the performance of a high end Yamaha or another quality piano? This prototype was never intended to be that in any way, That's why it is called a PROTOTYPE.

If the identical was present you would hear the significant difference in improvement... either way, YOU, of a select few will always see the black dot on the white pc. of paper no matter.. The piano is not there because it doesn't work it is there because it does, and that has been clarified by many folks starting with the owner of the Pianoforte. Are you saying Thomas is wrong along with Richard Bosworth ? I have my opinion as you do, and you're inaccurate and not understanding the purpose of this project and probably never will.... Happy Holidays !!! Stonetone® Music of the Earth®

?????

I don't think one person's opinion is more valid than another's, and I see this kind of response as an intolerant reaction, which is not helpful for your cause.

Mr. Di Santo, you surely understand that you are fighting a bit of an uphill battle with your concept. The musical instrument world is somewhat conservative. Many good pianos inventions have failed to break through on the market - not because of any lack of merit, but because they could not muster the critical mass required to become mainstream or even enter into the mainstream. I believe capturing hearts and minds is key here. Antagonism will only lead to closed minds and closed doors.

Jerry - I have to disagree with you here. I am extremely curious how they managed to install dampers up in the top treble. Normally there is no space at all up there for damper wires because the hammer arc is so close to the belly rail. Did you see how they did that?
PS: I realize that your "being unimpressed" had to do more with servicing the piano....

"prototype" comes from the greek.... "proto">first and "typos">impression. I believe Jerry gave us his. I'm not sure why an Indonesian piano was chosen for a first impression, scape goat maybe? I wouldn't think a new concept like this would be at its full potential unless it was voiced properly afterwards.

Jerry, do you think some good voicing could better blend the piano more evenly?

If you are trying to impress me or anyone here with your pianos I would think you would stop using excuses and stop treating us as if we were fools.

I stand by what I stated in my original posts with my opinion of it. If you don't like it, well, tough. If you want respect, give it. Otherwise, expect what you'll get in return.

How do you expect someone for example to tune the piano way up by C 8 with those dampers in the way?

I have a very open mind with almost all things. I had a very open mind going into look at this piano. I was actually looking forward to seeing it. However, I walked away with a different opinion than I thought I would have.

I most certainly was not expecting to hear buzzing and other erroneous sounds that it should not have regardless of make or model or quality. Fortunately, their technician was there with me and also heard what I heard.

Yes Jurgen,

All of the strings from A-0 to C-8 have dampers on them. I did not remove the action to look at it so can't tell you how they are in there. I wasn't about to "touch the thing." Don't want to be blamed for something you know...

You bet Emmery. A good tuning and a good voicing would most certainly improve the quality and evenness of the "tone." I plucked the strings and there is certainly room for a great improvement in that area. I was just quite surprised that the piano was not more evenly voiced when I got there. I would think that it would be. Why not try to get the best out of any prototype...

Is there an explanation for the 88 dampers?

The only thing I know about it is that the technician in the store told me that there is so much additional sustained (excessive) ring through in the treble where dampers normally stop that in order to supress it enough, they had to put dampers all the way up to the top.