Or, is it that the bass is extremely powerful in relation to the rest of the piano?

In my limited experience, it seems to me that the tenor/treble is no louder than any other pianos I've played, and perhaps I'd even say that the treble is softer (gentler? more intimate?) than some others.

Any constructive input welcomed.

One can play very softly, very loudly, and anything in between in any region of the keyboard on a BB. When people say a BB has a big bass I think this means one can play very loudly without the tone becoming unpleasant.

But it's your opinion that counts if you're interested in buying one. If you think it's too loud or too soft or too "anything", than my opinion of the tone should mean nothing.

Your describing uneven voicing. It's impossible to tell without hearing and playing the piano. Have your tech check it out or ask the seller to have it voiced.

Many pianist over play their right hands while working for expression. (known as the Steinway syndrome to techs here in the mid Atlantic area). It can be a very difficult adjustment for players who have played Steinways all their lives.

Actually, I was referring to what many people have said about BBs. The piano I'm considering can be played softly and loudly. I do have some issues with the tonal range (other thread) that may be what you're referring to though.

And unfortunately, the seller will do nothing to voice it because he believes it sounds great as is. And it does--but without the range. I do have the opportunity to have a tech look into this concern though.

I am unclear about the comment that many pianists overplay their right hands if they are used to playing Steinways all their lives. I have just bought a Mason-Hamlin BB (not delivered yet, though, so little experience playing it yet) but formerly played only on a Steinway for the last 6 or 7 years. I do know that I felt the upper section of the Steinway was not very clear or strong compared with the meaty middle or bass. Is that what you are talking about? When I auditioned the BB, I found the treble and tenor very nice.

I had the chance to play a used Mason and Hamlin AA (~ 6'2") at the Steinway Dealer in Tysons the other day. That sumsaıˆˇÇÓ is loud, even when playing normal mezzoforte/forte. Awesome, clean tone (not to mention very light and responsive ), but loud. I'm not familiar with the B/BB, but I'd imagine it's a similar can of worms.

Could be.


With respect, I don't agree at all.

I've played good Steinways; I've played good Mason & Hamlins.

In my experience, the Steinway treble projects above the bottom of the instrument in a way that the Mason does not.

As to whether or not that's a "good" thing, or a "bad", well, that's a matter of personal taste, aesthetics, the repertoire being played, and, of course, the pianist's ability.

Yes, a good tech can do a lot to voice an instrument, but at the end of the day, a Mason sounds like a Mason, and a Steinway like a Steinway.

GOOD pianists, ones who play at professional levels with experience playing different brands of instruments in different sizes of venues with different acoustics, understand these things - and part of the work that is done when preparing to play a concert is playing on a particular instrument in a particular venue so the performance can be tailored accordingly. On a good day, it all comes together : )

I've rarely experienced having to overplay the treble on Steinways. The "singing treble" is one of the Steinway hallmarks.

Also, when you play your BB, or any piano, recognize that the sound coming at you may differ from what a listener may be hearing out in the room.

I agree heartily with Andrew and Joe. Steinway has amazing projection in the middle to upper register and doesn't require much work from the soloist to achieve a singing melody line. If you find a Steinway that isn't able to thusly project, I would submit that the hammers are too soft and need some remediation. Many other brands can be made bright, but rarely do they project like a Steinway. This may be obvious in your living room, but it is ever so obvious when you routinely hear stage pianos in concerted repertoire in a large venue. For years, I had season tickets to the symphony and you could blindfold me and I could tell the difference between Steinways and everything else. I was always in the same seat, so that is not a variable. I have owned Steinways and presently I own an M&H and Knabe.

As is well known agmonst the forum membership, I dislike the new Masons, not because they aren't good pianos, but because they don't sound at all like Mason & Hamlin pianos, at least as we've come to know them, c.1900-1985. They are good pianos but are the productions of a mentality that is focused on Steinway tone. To me, they're the piano maker's equivalent of Labradoodles.

Having said that, I agree completely with those that have written that what you've experienced with this and other instruments is poor, uneven voicing. Personally, I dislike any piano that isn't slightly treble-ascendant. In particular, a concert grand ought to have a significant treble, but avoiding any suggestion of brittle hardness. Big but round, not always easy to achieve, would be my ideal. Steinways excell in this.

The temptation to overplay the small fingers of the right hand can very quickly lead to an injury. The piano should be ready to help the player here.

You can get what you want from your new Mason without any problems. After all, it's already ALMOST a Steinway so pressing it a bit shouldn't be an issue.

When I transitioned to my current piano I noticed that I have to make a conscious effort to play the left hand softer. Couldn't really play the right hand any louder and it wasn't easy to hear the treble over the bass. Could be voicing, could just be the piano, could just be me!

Having been going through an exhaustive hunt for a new piano I've had a chance to play a number of M&H including some BBs as well a large number of Steinway Bs. I find that the Mason's are not well balanced or consistent from bass to treble - they sound like two different instruments, with the bass more prominent. While the bass has some immediate appeal I found the unmatched sound disturbing. While there is a larger variety in S&S ranging the better ones have a powerful bass complemented by a projecting treble. They sound more coordinated to my ear.

so to answer the OP - are BB loud - in the bass I'd say often, but I think the issue is highlighted by the contrast from bass to treble.

These were all recorded on a 2003 BB. Does the piano sound unbalanced or inconsistent from bass to treble???

Brahms - Rhapsody Opus 79 No. 2
http://youtu.be/6wjReIxzfuo

Chopin - Impromptu Opus 51
http://www.box.net/shared/fz2odrk02q

Schumann - The Prophet Bird
http://www.box.net/shared/l7zsopcuot

NOTE: There's no denying that the piano is LOUD - particularly in the Brahms - but I don't think that the sound is unbalanced from bass to treble. Of course, every piano is different......

carey, It's really not my place to criticize anyone's playing, but I can't figure out another way to answer your question. Please understand that I fully appreciate and respect the players work.

To me the Brahms just seems overplayed, missing the sublime joy of the composition. The Chopin has the same choppy rhythm and transitions but there were a few glimpses into what the piano can do. The Schumman is an interesting selection. I'm guessing its fun to play? The M&H damper system is nothing to be hesitant with. Just let it do its job. It will impress.

Again; my intent is not to criticize anyone's playing.

The M&H "BB" is a wonderful instrument. In my humble opinion, it is one of the great designs. Yes it is a very very powerful instrument. To me its like hopping into a formula 1 race car. With a little practice down shifting you can take turns at over 100 mph and not even hear the wheels.

I know a few percussionist who can walk up to a snare drum and you think a gun went off. And there isn't a dent on the drum head. You can imagine what the drum head would look like if I tried to do that.

So to answer your question. There is an assortment of powerful pianos to play; but I doubt it's the pianos that are loud.

.

I have a BB in a room 12' by 18'. I don't have any problem with the piano being too loud or not being able to play at a soft dynamic level in any register.

Dave - I must admit that I've never felt the Rhapsody to be a "sublimely joyful" work.

I can't play the Brahms nearly as well as you but it does belong in that sublimely joyful category (I guess especially if I can do it right).

Anyway the piano sounds great and even throughout!

Carey; I am not sure why the comments about the playing. I thought it sounded very good. Wish I could play that well. The piano sounds different in each piece, but isn't that what the original poster wanted to know? If the tone range is wide? Of course, the acoustics, recording setup, etc. make it hard to judge. Would be better to hear the pieces live, of course. Still, the piano sounded good, especially the Schumann. Just my opinion and I am not an expert, of course.

Those are about the last words I would use to describe it.

Thanks - that's what I was trying to demonstrate by posting the recordings in the first place.

Thanks Chopinlover49 !! If Dave felt the rhythm and transitions in the Brahms and Chopin recordings were choppy, so be it. I'm an amateur after all. And yes, I chose these recordings because the piano does sound different in each. Of course, the placement of the mic, the recording level, position of the piano lid, etc. varied - but all recordings were made with the same equipment.

Dave implies that the loudness of an instrument is more the function of the pianist than the instrument itself. I can assure you that I've played my fair share of concert grands in my life - but my own 2003 M&H is the only piano I've played where I felt compelled to rely heavily on the una corda pedal just to keep things under control. In fact, when I practice I prefer to keep the piano lid fully closed.

I do agree with Dave that my Brahms recording is "overplayed." I remember having trouble achieving the dynamic contrasts I wanted (with the lid fully raised) so I decided to go with the flow, give in to the power of the beast and bask in the glory of the sound.

For several years I found the touch of my Mason to be quite heavy. (Even started a thread about it on PW.) As a result, I had to work harder than usual to play certain pieces. Recently, I had my tech re-weight the keys and make other adjustments to lighten the touch (a long, complicated process). As a result the touch is now within a normal range - and guess what - I'm able to do more with color and dynamics. I hope that will be reflected in my next round of home recordings.

I know of a local piano teacher who has a M&H BB and a 7 foot Schimmel in his studio. I'm told that he prefers to keep the lid of the M&H fully closed much of the time because the Mason overpowers the sound of the Schimmel.

An acquaintance of mine sold new Masons. In conversations he admitted that the primary challenge with the BB is its overall loudness.

So yes - the Mason & Hamlin BB is a powerful instrument - but it definitely can be tamed !!

And my piano is in our living room, which although carpeted, is 20'x 28' and has a 20' cathedral ceiling. The sound really carries.

I know you're going to love your new BB !!!

It's difficult to judge piano tone from a youtube video, but from what I hear, I would have to say yes - it does sound unbalanced between bass and treble. The bass is big, rich, complex while the treble is thin and transparent. It's not bad - it's just different and I don't like the contrast from top to bottom. Some folks do and they will get years of enjoyment from their Mason's. The more I played on the BB that was first on my shortlist, the more annoyed I got with the contrast, so I moved on. But from what I hear on these recordings, the sound is similar to the experience I've had with Masons. I understand the appeal for some, but not for me - that's why we have different brands of pianos to choose from!

Vive la difference !!!!!

Almost no one likes a treble that's "thin"(that term is almost always used negatively). Many and perhaps most people, including me, wouldn't agree with your description of the BB's tone which your post somehow takes as a given. On my BB I don't have a problem with the balance between the bass and treble.

I would suggest that you try a Mason-Hamlin AA to see the difference. I have heard that it is better balanced than some other models of Masons, so maybe that's what you're looking for? I tried one when shopping for a piano and it was very fine, but ultimately I chose a BB.