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You are absolutely correct !!! I recently found a 17 year old seven foot Baldwin that was in the ballpark price-wise. The instrument played very well and was equipped with a Baldwin Concertmaster system. Two speakers were attached to the bottom of the piano - along with two other "boxes" and lots of hanging cords. And due to the installation of the system, the Sostenuto pedal was non-functional. Visually, it simply wouldn't work for us to have a piano up on the alter with all of those gizmos hanging from it. Removing the system would be an option, but I was concerned that the piano had already been structurally compromised due to the installation. Any insights anyone might have about this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks !!!

Carey, I removed that system from my SD10, mainly because I would never use it and it certainly wasn't working. The only issue that I found was that long cutout in the keybed. That said, the keybed is made of the same laminated material used for the pinblock and it is tougher than the usual typical domestic keybed of the days of yore. I wouldn't think that anything was seriously structurally compromised by its removal. The contest is between the RX6 and the Yamaha. Since the Kawai is newer, I would go with that. Six years of typical home use for that piano shouldn't be a big deal.

Hi John - Good to hear from you !! I just discussed the Baldwin with my tech, and he said pretty much the same thing - so we are going to continue to explore that. Your observation about the Yamaha versus the Kawai is helpful - THANKS !!!

Yup I was going to say the same. A nearly new Kawai for around half price is good (is that half price over there?).

Think about, not just how the piano sounds now, but how long it will retain it's sound. With the Yamaha, you may be looking at replacing it in 10 years or so. Perhaps not, but a it's probably on the downward slope. That said, if you have the budget to recondition it, well, Yamahas turn out pretty well. These pianos are well built and once you add a new set of strings and have the action rebuilt, then I'm sure the piano will be good for another 50 years.

The Kawai will be good for another 20 to 30 years probably, providing it isn't being practised on for hours a day, and providing you keep it under good conditions - not too humid/dry etc. In fact, you might get more out of it. Kawai pianos are built extremely well, especially the new ones, and they have one of the best actions on any piano - incredibly fast (if it's not fast, it isn't set up well, your tech can fix it). Also the tone is workable, suitable for all types of music, more middle of the road than Yamaha, which is perhaps a bit cleaner or brighter. The Kawai has a bit more harmonic to it I'd say.

If the pianos were new, I'd go for the one I liked the best, but since there is such a huge age gap, I'd go for the younger.

You might find with the Albert Weber and the Young Chang, that they sound nice now, but they're not perhaps the workhorses you need in an institutional setting. Also, if you have visiting pianists, you want a piano that will stand up to quite a lot. While most pianists will play beautifully, you'll get the odd one who plays with the touch of an elephant... the Kawai will stand up to that, no problem.

I have no experience of Baldwin pianos - and at the end of the day, it's you and your church who are using the piano.

Very best of luck

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Joe.

Here's where we are in our search....

For a variety of reasons (limited funds and other pressing church capital needs, etc.) we've decided to cap the amount we can spend. Thus the Kawai RX6 and the Albert Weber 7 foot pianos are no longer being considered.

We've decided against the Kohler and Campbell due to concerns about its holding up in an institutional setting.

We've decided to work with a tech and look into the possibility of removing the player system from the 1995 Baldwin SF10 - assuming we can find the trapwork parts needed to make the change and reconnect the pedals.

We are still considering the 1969 Yamaha C7, even though there are concerns about its age.

Note: Neither the Baldwin nor Yamaha would come with a warranty.

The new Young Chang YP185 (6'1") is still in the running. It has a warranty - but there are still questions related to its size and ability to hold up in the church setting - even though it would lightly used.

We've found (and I'm going to check it out today) a NEW Yamaha GC2 (5'8") that would come with a warranty. It appears that this instrument is not all that different (on the inside at least) from the current Yamaha C2 - which is very appealing. On the other hand, I don't know how it would hold up over time compared to a C2 - and the size is a concern given the space. However, the GC2 is larger and sturdier than our existing ancient 5 foot piano which we've been using in the space for 5 years now.

If anyone here has any experience with the GC2 in an institutional setting (light, not heavy use) I'd love to hear your thoughts.

The four instruments currently in the running all are at the same price point.

This has been an interesting journey thus far.

Carey,

I have several GC2 owning customers but no churches or schools with one. They are a fine piano, presenting no issues in voicing or playability after a thorough regulation and initial 'prep'. I find them generally a bit more 'bright' than the C2 in tone. But, I have no issues with them in the home that I can share. They are a solid product. Not sure that they can fill your space, however. It is not a large instrument, more a medium size, and I'd probably be suggesting a 6+ for what you have described.

But...you have a hard choice here! There is, as someone else pointed out, a real difference in the sound of a 7-ft piano! String length is just not something that can be ignored. Bigger pianos can run the plain-wire deeper in the scale before they need to wrap the wire (weight substitutes for length), so they are more even and smooth in their scaling and sound. 'Richer' might be a word to apply.

I'm not that fond of the SD-10. They tend to have a more 'bland' tone. Not as rich a 'palette' of color. Their hammers are relatively firm and don't seem to give as much to work with. Just an opinion. The fact that it may have been beaten with a player (..before it failed) also suggests more wear than the simple age would reflect. I'd listen to the technician's opinion of the instrument on that one.

I'd really love to touch the dang things myself. As I've said; I have a wonderful old C7 in my current client list, but not all pianos are equal. Lean on your tech, play the pianos thoroughly (...not just a few chords or notes), and really get a sense of how they will play and sound. That's the best I can do (sigh).

Good Luck!

I appreciate your perspective, Jeff. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.

I have the same concern about the size of the GC2 - but we'll see.

Seven feet is definitely better. I personally own a Mason and Hamlin BB - so know how BIG the sound can be. Certainly fills our living room, the whole house, and part of the neighborhood !! It really would be fun to see how a 7 foot piano would sound in our sanctuary.

We definitely will need to rely on the opinion of my tech particularly when it comes to the Baldwin SF10. I've had very little experience with SF10's myself - but many years ago I played full recitals on a 9 foot Baldwin and it was just fine !!! The Renner Blue hammers on my M&H tend to be rather firm as well.

Your encouragement is appreciated !!

Anyone else here familiar with the new GC2's????

Limited opinion here: previous pianos I had an old Bluthner, then a recent Bosendorfer 200, now a 1970 Japanese rebuilt Yamaha C7. My tech and I agree - the Yamaha is by far the best I have owned. I now know why Richter liked them. If you find a good one, they are unbeatable in terms of value. The only replacement for me will most likely be a Hamburg Steinway B. Also, his 21k investment beats the heck out of any new NY Steinway B I have played at many dealerships.

Hi Carey

I realize you are a choral conductor and would have your own opinions, but as a singer and choral enthusiast I recommend a brighter piano, or at least one with strong fundamentals. Having clear accompaniment is so helpful, especially with repertoire with more challenging tonality (say Elgar for example) where being able to pull a note into your head from the piano bass line three measures before in order to hit a clean entrance is a requirement. What sounds beautifully rich and mellow to the audience can be a bit of a muddy mess to the singer. For me, I would lean towards a Yamaha depending on how the instrument is going to be used.

Good luck to you. I must confess that our family has pretty much given up on church choirs as it seems much more likely to find decent classical repertoire with a good community chorus these days. But, I digress . . .

I bet your rebuilt C7 is very nice indeed !!!

Thanks for the input Doug !!! Fortunately our church choir still does traditional repertoire (Tallis, Palestrina, Bach, Byrd, Mozart, Stanford, Bruckner, Howells, Franck, Faure, Vaughan-Williams, Holst, etc.) but we primarily use the organ for accompaniment, unless, of course, the organist happens to be ill on a certain Sunday.

Just to bring closure to this thread......my tech inspected the 1995 Baldwin SF-10 and gave it an excellent bill of health - so we've decided to purchase it and spend some extra bucks to remove the existing player system and restore the piano to its "pre-player" configuration. I have folks lined up who have a good track record doing this type of thing and I'm very optimistic that the piano is ultimately going to work quite well for us. Of course, the adventure isn't over quite yet.......

Best of luck!

Personally I'd go with the Kawai RX6. The age of the Yamaha would be a concern to me.

The Kawai is fairly new and has the balance of the new 10 year warranty. It also has the Millenium III action which is more responsive on soft play and has faster repetition than a traditional wood action.

In my experience at our store the Korean brands do not hold up as well over the years.

Carey,

Based on experience I would limit your choices to these instruments. I would further say that the Kawai might be my first choice, depending on the instrument, followed closely by the A. Weber.

Definitely have the final choice (and maybe your runner up) examined by an independent tech.

I know you've gotten lots of responses so far, but more information couldn't be a bad thing. Keep us posted as to your progress please.

Happy piano to your church!

Congrats on the SF10. That's pretty awesome.

Glenn - The 1995 Baldwin was half the cost of the 2006 Kawai. We could afford the Baldwin - but couldn't come close to the asking price for the Kawai. The Renner action in the Baldwin isn't all that shabby either - even though I like the Millenium III action as well. And yes - we ruled out the Korean pianos due to concerns about how well they'd hold up in the church setting - and the Yamaha because it was just too darn old.

Thanks - we're pretty excited about it !!!!

Hi Carey,

That Baldwin will sound great! - Congratulations

It will be enjoyed by your congregation for many years to come.

Great job as the search committee!

Congratulations! I'm sure this will be a great piano for your church!