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#1776160 - 10/24/11 10:32 AM How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ?
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
In general, the Roland keyboards feel good to me but I was rather surprised by the enormous difference between the PHA series:

PHA II Very good indeed - somewhat like a well set up grand, on the light side.

PHA III Even better but not very different from the PHA II (at least on the HP 305 and HP 307 that I tried, despite the supposed extra 'notch' feeling halfway through the stroke. Maybe only kicks in at pp.

PHA Alpha II Terrible - lacks definition, too springy

Now I've just noticed there is also a Roland Ivory Feel-G keyboard too. Anyone able to give an informed comparison?


Edited by toddy (10/24/11 12:35 PM)
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

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#1776172 - 10/24/11 10:50 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
spanishbuddha Offline
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Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2235
Loc: UK
There's also the PHA III Ivory Feel-S on the FP-7F. I found the escapement on this to be more noticeable than on my CN33 Responsive Hammer keybed.

Reports on this forum say that the 4F Ivory Feel G is sluggish, and I did notice that but only by side by side comparison with the 7F.

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#1776188 - 10/24/11 11:07 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Hi, Spanishbuddha. Sluggish is the worst type of feel IMO....so quite a bit different from PHA II/III then? I don't quite see where it fits into the range PHA alpha II/ PHA II / PHA III. But from what I noticed, there seems to be a massive difference between the alpha and the better two PHAs.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1776190 - 10/24/11 11:10 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: spanishbuddha]
rob.art Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 187
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha

Reports on this forum say that the 4F Ivory Feel G is sluggish, and I did notice that but only by side by side comparison with the 7F.


for me it is sluggish and more tiring for my hands.
I love action on my RD700GX.

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#1776210 - 10/24/11 11:43 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: rob.art]
shokz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 457
Loc: Sheffield, England
Originally Posted By: rob.art
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha

Reports on this forum say that the 4F Ivory Feel G is sluggish, and I did notice that but only by side by side comparison with the 7F.


for me it is sluggish and more tiring for my hands.
I love action on my RD700GX.


Wheres the best place I could get a RD700GX for a decent price? Everywhere I look they going for roughly 2000 pounds lol
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#1776471 - 10/24/11 07:05 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8401
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toddy, I'd say the 'Ivory Feel G' ranks somewhere in between the previous 'PHA alpha II' and 'PHAII'/'PHAIII' action.

Cheers,
James
x
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#1776494 - 10/24/11 07:30 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Thank you James. Bottom line for me then is PHA II if I go for Roland....I'd still love to try out the Kawai CA 13 and CN 33 to compare with Roland's HP 305.
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Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
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#1967730 - 10/02/12 11:13 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
jhm Offline
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Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
According to information I got in a german piano forum, the Ivory feel-g is in fact PHA II with ivory like key tops. The Ivory feel-S is a PHA III with ivory like key tops, but for some reason they market the different versions differently. That could be because they want solid differentiation between the different digital piano models. (If you can provide hard facts proving me wrong, I stand corrected).

In the English catalogues the description is somehow fuzzy in my opinion:
"The RP-301 is equipped with our Ivory Feel-G keyboard which inherits the functions, appearance, and texture of keyboards found on our flagship pianos."

In the german catalogue they seem a bit more specific:
ROLAND besitzt nicht nur eine mehr als 35-jährige Erfahrung im Digital Piano-Bau sondern auch in der Entwicklung erstklassiger Klaviaturen für diese Instrumente. Der natürliche Anschlagwiderstand entsteht nicht durch Federn, sondern einzig durch das Gewicht der Hämmer, wodurch sich der Charakter und die Höhe des Anschlagwiderstands je nach Anschlagstärke und Tonhöhe verändern. Wie bei einem akustischen Klavier wird der Widerstand von den tiefen zu den hohen Tönen leichter.

Außerdem ist er bei hartem Anschlag stärker und bei Pianissimo-Spiel leichter. Die Tastaturen "PHA III", "Ivory Feel-S" und "Ivory Feel-G" verfügen alle nicht nur über eine Elfenbein-artige Oberfläche und Druckpunkt sondern besitzen auch Rolands Tri-Sensor Technolgie mit drei Sensoren pro Taste und Beschleunigungs-Erkennung.

Das sorgt nicht nur für ein exzellentes Repetitionsverhalten sondern in Kombination mit der SuperNATURAL Piano-Tonerzeugung auch dafür, dass alle Nuancen der Spielweise absolut perfekt klanglich umgesetzt werden. Das macht Rolands unverwechselbaren Klavierklang so lebendig und ausdrucksstark.

Bei der „Ivory Feel-G“ Hammermechanik-Tastatur handelt es sich um eine spezielle Tastatur für besonders kompakte und portable Pianos. Drei Sensoren ermöglichen ein erstklassiges Repetitionsverhalten und der Druckpunkt vermittelt das Spielgefühl einer Flügelmechanik.
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#1967732 - 10/02/12 11:23 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
Didn't like it. Feels cheap.

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#1967736 - 10/02/12 11:37 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Hello jhm. When you say that Ivory Feel G is the same as PHA II, do you actually mean PHA alpha II? They are totally different. (PHA alpha II used to be on Roland's smaller or more portable pianos, as is Ivory Feel G, now.)

I briefly tried Ivory Feel G and thought it much better than PHA alpha II but not any where near as good as PHA II, which is similar to (if very slightly heavier than) PHA III, which is on the best and most expensive Rolands.

Again, the information is sketchy so maybe this is only my subjective impression.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1967743 - 10/02/12 11:58 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
Hi Toddy,
I'm not mixing it up with PHA alpha II, since I've been trying to research this thoroughly now for a couple of weeks. From the information I got, the only difference between Ivory feel-g and PHAII branded Roland pianos, was the length of the actual key. As mentioned here already they are put in stage piano models and the smaller cabinet model F-120.

From my own testing, I felt that to get a better feeling, you need to get the wooden PHA III-keys with ivory surface, found in e.g. HP-505 and upwards (called PHA III Ivory Feel).

The difference between Ivory feel-g and pianos branded with PHA II was marginal, and could be piano model depending. It's also worth mentioning that the ivory feel-g felt indeed different between different piano models. For instance it felt rather sloppy and sluggish on the FP-4F, but felt excellent on the F-120 (my subjective judgement).
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#1967749 - 10/02/12 12:13 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
That's interesting, and quite different from the impressions I got when I was experimenting a few months back. I noted a big difference between PHA alpha II/G Feel on the one hand and PHA II/PHA III on the other.

Just out of interest, which pianos are still being sold with PHA II?
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1967822 - 10/02/12 04:06 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
JFP Offline
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Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1317
Loc: The Netherlands
For wooden keys you need the Kawai GF - Roland doesn't offer real wooden keys as far as I know. Could be wrong ...

I My rating would be (first is the worst):

PHA alpha II
G-feel
PHA II
PHA III

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#1967830 - 10/02/12 04:19 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
ROLAND:

HP 503, Ivory feel-S
FP-7F, Ivory feel-S
FP-4F, Ivory feel-G
HPi-6F, PHA II (Ivory feel)
DP-90, Ivory feel-S
DP-990, PHA II
RP301 / RP301 R, Ivory feel-G
F-120 / F-120 R, Ivory feel-G
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Roland F-120 DP, AKG K240 MkII HP

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#1967832 - 10/02/12 04:23 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: JFP]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
You are quite wrong. Several, if not all the PHA III instruments have in fact wooden keyboards. I also find it a bit hasty, to base a rating on what you believe. I think I have to phone Roland up tomorrow, and talk to a product manager, to get this sorted once and for all. (By the way, you forgot Ivory feel-S). wink

Originally Posted By: JFP
For wooden keys you need the Kawai GF - Roland doesn't offer real wooden keys as far as I know. Could be wrong ...

I My rating would be (first is the worst):

PHA alpha II
G-feel
PHA II
PHA III


Edited by jhm (10/02/12 04:24 PM)
_________________________
Roland F-120 DP, AKG K240 MkII HP

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#1967833 - 10/02/12 04:24 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
CarloPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 148
Ivory Feel-G is a development from PHA-Alpha II (the lightweight and low end former Roland action). It has nothing to do with PHA-II, which is heavier and in many respects better.

PHA II and III are almost identical, except for PHA III having a third sensor that makes the action more responsive for such tasks as fast repeated notes. But they feel basically the same (at least in my opinion).

JFP is right: Roland doesn't make (at this moment) wooden actions. The higher actions (PHA-III and PHA-II Ivory Feel) are full plastic but imitating the color of the wood on the side but it's not wood by any means.

Quote:
Just out of interest, which pianos are still being sold with PHA II?


PHA-II is no longer used.

Hope this helps :-)

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#1967869 - 10/02/12 05:33 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Well there are some differences of opinion emerging here. I have to say that my impressions are in line with what JFP says, and CarloPiano echos my thoughts exactly (or vice versa smile ).

Which is: PHAII / PHA III keys are all plastic, but some models (on the HP307 for example) have imitation wood walls. I suppose some PHA III keyboards may contain wood, but I've never seen this claim made by anyone - either Roland or otherwise. (Kawai RM & GF keyboards use fully wooden keys and Yamaha use some partially wooden keys, I think.)

Having played on several HP302/305/307 and FP7f models, I find PHA II and PHA III virtually identical in feel, though ALL these models can differ from keyboard to keyboard quite a lot in terms of weightiness.

Every time I've tried PHA alpha II, I've been very disappointed. Ivory G Feel seems to be a significant step up from PHA alpha II, but still lacks the weighty, defined hammer feel of PHA II/PHA III.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1967891 - 10/02/12 06:34 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: CarloPiano]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
I found the info about the wood now, in Rolands german brochure. I stand corrected on that point. However, when you say that PHA III has three sensors, and that should distinct that model from PHA II you are surprising me, since all current Rolands have three sensors, according to their own marketing material.

[img]http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/ivorya.jpg/[/img]

According to Rolands homepage they have indeed PHA II keyboards in current models. (See below example from Roland UK.)

http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=10277&c=40


Originally Posted By: CarloPiano
Ivory Feel-G is a development from PHA-Alpha II (the lightweight and low end former Roland action). It has nothing to do with PHA-II, which is heavier and in many respects better.

PHA II and III are almost identical, except for PHA III having a third sensor that makes the action more responsive for such tasks as fast repeated notes. But they feel basically the same (at least in my opinion).

JFP is right: Roland doesn't make (at this moment) wooden actions. The higher actions (PHA-III and PHA-II Ivory Feel) are full plastic but imitating the color of the wood on the side but it's not wood by any means.

Quote:
Just out of interest, which pianos are still being sold with PHA II?


PHA-II is no longer used.

Hope this helps :-)
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Roland F-120 DP, AKG K240 MkII HP

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#1967901 - 10/02/12 06:54 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
I have now compared Roland Sweden to the UK, Germany and US. The differences are striking, when it comes to what models are still current, and which have been discontinued. It is not the same all over, that's for sure. smile
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Roland F-120 DP, AKG K240 MkII HP

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#1967948 - 10/02/12 08:56 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Wow. I'm walking in a little late, so I hope this is well received. AFAIK, the Ivory Feel-G is not connected to the previous alpha [PHA (alpha) II] action. It seems to be a completely new action design conforming primarily to the weight/cost restrictions necessary for smaller model Rolands. The progression of compact, lightweight models seems to be the only connection (RP-201 had alpha, RP-301 now has Ivory Feel-G; FP-4 had alpha, FP-4F has Feel-G, etc). The weight of these models in some cases actually went up a pound or two and the feel is ... almost opposite those with alpha.

As jhm observed, the consoles with Ivory Feel-G feel better than the portables with the same spec. Don't know why, but it is not a subtle thing. I don't have a lot of affection for the actions in the FP-4F or RD-300NX, but I do like the F120 or RP301 action. Not every customer chooses them, but in our store, when people vote with their dollars, many are choosing those Rolands over the competitive models and the action is listed as one of the strengths.

PHA II directly progressed into PHA III with the help of 3rd sensor. The PHA III seems to have several nearly identical forms that can usually only be compared side by side and even then with mixed observations. If you have the money, this is the way to go with Roland.

There are a few models still sold with PHA II (w/escapement) but I'd agree they are reaching their sell-by date simply because Roland's product cycle is faster than other makers over the last 5-6 years. For 98% of players, the 2 sensor version offers 0% limitations on what they perform and, if not side by side, offers no significant discernible weakness vs. the PHA III.

IMO, the Ivory Feel-G (in the console models) is the best of the low-mass actions (comparing previous Casios, Yamaha GHS, recent Fatar, previous alpha and a couple of really awful off-brands I've played). It's touch weight is medium, the ivory touch is pleasant, the bottom is soft (not my favorite but cuts down on "thump"), the repetition is quick, the connection to the sound is still quite good, the "escapement" feel is minimal (fine by me). It could use more inertia mid-stroke that the heavyweights benefit from. I think it is good enough to compete with the higher-mass GH in Yamaha's Arius line. From there, the Roland sometimes wins for other features.

I think the PHA III is better in all areas...and should be because it is less restricted by weight/price considerations. I don't mind the thump because I prefer the firm bottom...real keys and key felts don't squish like a sponge.

Casio's new action is another low-mass action. I don't know yet where to rate it compared to the Ivory Feel-G as I see some positives and negatives when comparing to the higher-dollar Rolands.

I hope that answers more of the OP's question.
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#1968052 - 10/03/12 12:10 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Excellent writeup PWATL. Appreciate that.

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#1968054 - 10/03/12 12:13 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: PianoWorksATL]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
Thanks for an indeed consistent and elaborate post on the different keyboard technologies in various Roland models. What I find particularly interesting, is that Roland implemented their Tri-Sensor technology in not only PHA III, but also in Ivory Feel-G and Ivory Feel-S. In the german piano prospect this technology is also referred to as "PHA Ivory feel-G" (and S).

(What distinguishes the Feel-G from the Feel-S is still a mystery to me.)

The slightly spongy bottoming (when the key is fully pressed down), is also something I noticed as a difference, compared to PHA III and Yamaha's GH action. Is this caused by thicker underlying dampening felt in the Ivory Feel-G keyboards?

It wasn't disturbing, just a bit unexpected, compared to the other actions I refer to above.

Cheers!


Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Wow. I'm walking in a little late, so I hope this is well received. AFAIK, the Ivory Feel-G is not connected to the previous alpha [PHA (alpha) II] action. It seems to be a completely new action design conforming primarily to the weight/cost restrictions necessary for smaller model Rolands. The progression of compact, lightweight models seems to be the only connection (RP-201 had alpha, RP-301 now has Ivory Feel-G; FP-4 had alpha, FP-4F has Feel-G, etc). The weight of these models in some cases actually went up a pound or two and the feel is ... almost opposite those with alpha.

As jhm observed, the consoles with Ivory Feel-G feel better than the portables with the same spec. Don't know why, but it is not a subtle thing. I don't have a lot of affection for the actions in the FP-4F or RD-300NX, but I do like the F120 or RP301 action. Not every customer chooses them, but in our store, when people vote with their dollars, many are choosing those Rolands over the competitive models and the action is listed as one of the strengths.

PHA II directly progressed into PHA III with the help of 3rd sensor. The PHA III seems to have several nearly identical forms that can usually only be compared side by side and even then with mixed observations. If you have the money, this is the way to go with Roland.

There are a few models still sold with PHA II (w/escapement) but I'd agree they are reaching their sell-by date simply because Roland's product cycle is faster than other makers over the last 5-6 years. For 98% of players, the 2 sensor version offers 0% limitations on what they perform and, if not side by side, offers no significant discernible weakness vs. the PHA III.

IMO, the Ivory Feel-G (in the console models) is the best of the low-mass actions (comparing previous Casios, Yamaha GHS, recent Fatar, previous alpha and a couple of really awful off-brands I've played). It's touch weight is medium, the ivory touch is pleasant, the bottom is soft (not my favorite but cuts down on "thump"), the repetition is quick, the connection to the sound is still quite good, the "escapement" feel is minimal (fine by me). It could use more inertia mid-stroke that the heavyweights benefit from. I think it is good enough to compete with the higher-mass GH in Yamaha's Arius line. From there, the Roland sometimes wins for other features.

I think the PHA III is better in all areas...and should be because it is less restricted by weight/price considerations. I don't mind the thump because I prefer the firm bottom...real keys and key felts don't squish like a sponge.

Casio's new action is another low-mass action. I don't know yet where to rate it compared to the Ivory Feel-G as I see some positives and negatives when comparing to the higher-dollar Rolands.

I hope that answers more of the OP's question.
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Roland F-120 DP, AKG K240 MkII HP

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#1968100 - 10/03/12 04:12 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: jhm]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 447
Loc: Europe
Calling the German Roland hotline 3 month ago, I was told, that the keyboards "S" are no more found on new instruments, but the available ones would be now "G", "PHA-II" and "PHA-III". Sometimes the words "Ivory Feel" are somewhere added in the comercials to point out that they would have that 'sweat removing' surface finish. I tested G, PHA-II and PHA-III, and my feeling was that there is a clear difference between them, from G to PHA-II to PHA-III step by step acting less wobbly and feeling heavier weighted.
"Ivory Feel" only describes the surface of the keys. The "-S" and "-G" and "PHA-II" and "PHA-III" behind it actually refers to the mechanical key technology. In the detailed specs on the Roland pages you will even find to which extend the electronic (number of sensors) / software (4 dynamic steps or up to 100 dynamic steps) modulated responsiveness is then implemented. They mention i.e. for different PHA-III featured instruments (HP-505 and HP-507), that differently fine tuneable software reaction is connected to the PHA-III mechanics (4 step or 100 step dynamics resolution).

[edited: same content, but better structured]


Edited by Marco M (10/03/12 04:23 AM)
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#1968114 - 10/03/12 06:43 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: PianoWorksATL]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4401
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
... because it is less restricted by weight/price considerations. I don't mind the thump because I prefer the firm bottom...real keys and key felts don't squish like a sponge.

I hope that answers more of the OP's question.


I´ve certainly noticed that some DP and acoustic piano actions have more of a squish than a positive thump at the bottom of the key-strike than others, and Kawai´s key action (DP and acoustic) is more squishy than most. It´s all down to personal preferences.

Of all the acoustic grands I´ve played, my V-Piano´s PHA-III is closest to a new Grotrian-Steinweg (225 size, I think it was) that I played in a showroom once. If it weren´t for the sound (the Grotrian is more trebly and has less bass than the settings I use on my V), I could have sworn I was playing on my V-Piano if I closed my eyes. Fazioli (F278) is a lot less squishy than Shigeru Kawai; Steinway D - at least the ones I´ve played - slightly more squishy than Fazioli, but still a long way from S.Kawai´s softness. Of course all those grands I played were brand new; I´d guess that the more squishy actions will ´harden´over time, but maybe a piano technician will correct me on that.

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#1968117 - 10/03/12 07:01 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: jhm]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Yes, thanks PianoWorksATL for your detailed explanation. In particular, for clarifying that PHA II and PHA III are mechanically similar except for the third sensor whereas Ivory Feel G has a different, lower mass mechanism which does however feel different on different models (eg RD300NX vs F120).

Originally Posted By: jhm
What I find particularly interesting, is that Roland implemented their Tri-Sensor technology in not only PHA III, but also in Ivory Feel-G....


Where is this actually specified?....I couldn't find this information.

Quote:
(What distinguishes the Feel-G from the Feel-S is still a mystery to me.)


S-Feel is associated with PHA III in Roland's own specifications. This is how they describe the FP7-f at Roland.com:

Newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement

Whereas G- Feel is not, as far as I can see, associated with PHA II or PHA III.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1968182 - 10/03/12 10:46 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
jhm Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/12
Posts: 29
Loc: Sweden
Didn't you look at the links I posted a couple posts up in the thread?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/ivorya.jpg/

Cheers!


Originally Posted By: toddy
Yes, thanks PianoWorksATL for your detailed explanation. In particular, for clarifying that PHA II and PHA III are mechanically similar except for the third sensor whereas Ivory Feel G has a different, lower mass mechanism which does however feel different on different models (eg RD300NX vs F120).

Originally Posted By: jhm
What I find particularly interesting, is that Roland implemented their Tri-Sensor technology in not only PHA III, but also in Ivory Feel-G....


Where is this actually specified?....I couldn't find this information.

Quote:
(What distinguishes the Feel-G from the Feel-S is still a mystery to me.)


S-Feel is associated with PHA III in Roland's own specifications. This is how they describe the FP7-f at Roland.com:

Newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement

Whereas G- Feel is not, as far as I can see, associated with PHA II or PHA III.
_________________________
Roland F-120 DP, AKG K240 MkII HP

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#1968186 - 10/03/12 10:51 AM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2634
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I believe Ivory Feel-G has a third sensor because it behaves as if it does. I have one remaining model with a PHA II w/escapement action, and the primary characteristic of the 3rd sensor is the reset point for repetition. On the PHA II, the key has to return to about 80% before it can be restruck for sound. In the PHA III and Ivory Feel-G, the reset point is about 50% - 60%.

I think Marco's comments only serve to indicate that Roland would be well served to make a visual chart of their actions and the intended distinctions.

The Ivory Feel-S is the newest name for certain PHA III actions. So far, the only visual difference I can see is 1-piece keys in the S vs. 2-piece in the non-S (the sides of the keys are colored to look more like wood tone). There may be more settings available for the non-S actions, but now I'm speculating.
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#1968213 - 10/03/12 12:17 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
Great interesting communication here to get rid about the differences in the Roland actions. What I don't understand is the remark of Marco M on the S action, which will not appear in the new models and then toddy's remark on that the S is a new development. Even if I look into some new models like the DP 90, the ivory feel s is implemented. So it seems still some used action in the latest models. However I never can find it out whether the ivory feel s and the PHA III are the same. Nevertheless I understand that here in the forum it is agreed that PHAIII and S are different type of actions. Would be great if some Roland technician could join the discussion.

On the more practical side, my experience is up to now only on some short exercises on the V grand, the AG of Yamaha and the Nu1 and some others which I didn't remember. (At home I have an Yamaha acoustic Grand). Unfortunately there is no good DP dealer close to where I live, so I didn't have really a good experience, but during the short exercise PHA III gave the most easy feeling on the keys, while Yamaha Avant Grand was more heavier, but I liked it as well. The NU1 keys appeared to me, when I played it the first time more easy then the AGs, two weeks later more heavy then the AGs. Relative to the NU1 action the difference between the AGs and the PHAIII on the V was not really big, however the NU1 was quit different. The NU1 action made some more fun on the keys, compared to the two others, but that might be some subjective impression, since I learned for many years on an upright and NU1 is an upright action. Would be nice to hear also from others about their experience with PHA III, S and G, compared to other brands. bennevis gave already a good example. Thanks !

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#1968219 - 10/03/12 12:32 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: jhm]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: jhm
Didn't you look at the links I posted a couple posts up in the thread?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/ivorya.jpg/

Cheers!


I did look at the links, but I have to confess I didn't read the bit about three sensors (my German is very poor indeed)...my mistake. So yes, that's pretty clear. Thanks for putting me right.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1968235 - 10/03/12 01:23 PM Re: How good is Roland Ivory Feel-G ? [Re: toddy]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
....another interesting point is that the photo of Ivory Feel G that jhm posted:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/ivorya.jpg/

...seems remarkably similar to the photos of PHA III with escapement:

http://timtopham.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/pha3.jpg

There are several pictures of PHAIII (and PHA II) which are all pretty similar or the very same as this sample here from Tim Topham's site.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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