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#1967811 - 10/02/12 03:40 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2725
Originally Posted By: JFP
In short I found the MP6 right on spot for my hands from the first moment and only gradually found out that the keybed was a bit slow for fast repetitions.


You are right, as the MP6 only has a two-sensor action, not three.

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#1968328 - 10/03/12 05:13 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I'm still wondering if the RH II has some structural changes from the RH other than the addition of the 3rd sensor ?! It feels so much different. I described it as less key travel, but perhaps my mind is tricking me, although I find that hard to believe. Any info on that will be welcome, so I know if I'm just imagining things or not...

j

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#1968790 - 10/04/12 04:45 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Update: I think I can get used to the RH II, it's like switching cars or motor cycles. They can both be good, but you have to adjust your 'driving style' a bit. Still have a nasty problem with HF noise on the speakers that will be fixed by Kawai (great service!) and a question here that hopefully other ES7 users can answer.

I bought the ES for the RH II keybed, the speakers and...the audio input. The latter because I intended to use software instruments with the ES as well, playing over the internal speakers. Fr instance layering pianoteq over the Kawai grand as I have done before. All coming from the same cabinet speakers I assumed it would blend naturally and nicely with the instrument, but...

The audio input on my unit sounds horrible . The sound is flat, totally lacks bass and transparency, sound like band filtered and and a bit distorted at times. I wonder if it is my unit In particular, or a weakness of the ES in general. I hope the first and also that it is fixable like the HF noise problem. I want to keep the ES but also hope that I can use it as I intended.

By the way I used several different devices as input, changed the wiring, used decouples etc. didn't make a difference. Same file played as audio from a USB stick sounds fine over the ES.


Edited by JFP (10/04/12 05:31 PM)

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#1969346 - 10/06/12 05:39 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2725
Originally Posted By: JFP
Still have a nasty problem with HF noise on the speakers that will be fixed by Kawai ... and also that it is fixable like the HF noise problem.


What exactly is "HF" above... does this mean "High Frequency?"

I can't be for certain as of yet, although I think I am hearing a fuzzy sound on my new CA95 (mostly in the mid-range notes, just above middle C), and, haven't been able to determine what it is I am perceiving.

Perhaps it could just be the metallic sounds of the piano strings that have a buzzing-like quality to them, however, I am not so sure on how to clean up the sound to make things clear and not as fuzzy.

Hope that this isn't speaker distortion similar to what is being described above, and, a general question:

Has anyone else heard a fuzzy, or, not so clear sound, on their CA63 / CA93, or, CA65 / CA95?

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#1969358 - 10/06/12 07:03 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: pv88]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: JFP
Still have a nasty problem with HF noise on the speakers that will be fixed by Kawai ... and also that it is fixable like the HF noise problem.


What exactly is "HF" above... does this mean "High Frequency?"

I can't be for certain as of yet, although I think I am hearing a fuzzy sound on my new CA95 (mostly in the mid-range notes, just above middle C), and, haven't been able to determine what it is I am perceiving.

Perhaps it could just be the metallic sounds of the piano strings that have a buzzing-like quality to them, however, I am not so sure on how to clean up the sound to make things clear and not as fuzzy.

Hope that this isn't speaker distortion similar to what is being described above, and, a general question:

Has anyone else heard a fuzzy, or, not so clear sound, on their CA63 / CA93, or, CA65 / CA95?

I also had some "fuzzy" / not clear sound on my CA93
I have now another DP (NU1) and the sound is crystal clear compared to my former CA93.
I also had some trouble with the sound board which made some "vibration parasite sound" for some note only.
At the end it started to disturb me, but I thought that the new sound engine of the CA95 would have solved the trouble.
Cheers
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#1969373 - 10/06/12 08:42 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
The HF noise is not depending on something you play. It is a distortion in the speaker output (when not playing) and increases when you increase the volume slider till midways and decreases till full volume setting. In other wordts most audible when the volume slider is halfways. I is an aknoledged problem on some units and can easily be fixed. Probably some shielding issue. Problem will be solved (in the end).

Second thing is that the audio input has a very flat, not transparent and somewhat stressed sound, lacking bass and brilliance. The lack of full range sound seems to be due to the fact that the internal sounds pass an EQ before being send to the speakers, whilst the audio-input does not pass this correction EQ. That would explain the bad sound quality when hearing audio from the input on the speakers. And an EQ correction before the input might solve that.

It does not however explain why the input sound still sounds bad on headphones. The low/mid/high balance is better, but the non-transparent , smaller and stressfull sound character is still there. When doing AB between the same recording through the audio in and from USB stick you can easily hear the difference (on headphone).

I traveled > 300km to see if my unit needed to be exchanged , but found out the the other ES had the same HF noise, although much less and that the audio input quality had the same issues as my unit. Went back with my original ES; waste of time and gasoline.

The ES7 is absolutely a great instrument, that seems to have some audio issues. One of them is easily solvable , but for the underperforming audio input quality I fear. Hope there will be a solution too, because my intention was to actually use it (for SW instruments) and not regard it as a gift that you'll probably never use. I wonder how other ES users are evaluating the audio input quality ? Could still be exemplary...

If you don't care about the audio input at all , the ES7 is a no brainer. Very good piano board over all, nice and sturdy design.


Edited by JFP (10/06/12 08:44 AM)

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#1969532 - 10/06/12 05:38 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: JFP]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm still wondering if the RH II has some structural changes from the RH other than the addition of the 3rd sensor ?! It feels so much different. I described it as less key travel, but perhaps my mind is tricking me...


JFP, according to one of the keyboard engineers in R&D, the key travel of the RH and RHII actions are the same. He suggested that the reason you perceive them to feel different is because your MP6 was a couple of years old, and the key stop cushion had likely compressed a little over time, giving the impression of greater key dip.

Regarding the audio input sound, I've raised this query with the ES7 team and they're looking into it.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1969540 - 10/06/12 05:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: pv88]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: pv88
although I think I am hearing a fuzzy sound on my new CA95 (mostly in the mid-range notes, just above middle C), and, haven't been able to determine what it is I am perceiving.


This is possibly the 'Damper Noise' sound heard when pressing the damper pedal, as discussed in the following thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1961258

Originally Posted By: pv88
Perhaps it could just be the metallic sounds of the piano strings that have a buzzing-like quality to them, however, I am not so sure on how to clean up the sound to make things clear and not as fuzzy.


First, try adjusting the 'Damper Noise' virtual technician parameter (e.g. to 'Off'), then try adjusting the various other parameters related to resonances and noises.

Originally Posted By: pv88
Hope that this isn't speaker distortion similar to what is being described above...


It's possible, however I believe JFP's ES7 issue is not related.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1969603 - 10/06/12 09:57 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2725
[Edited]

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#1970026 - 10/07/12 08:51 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: Kawai James]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Regarding the audio input sound, I've raised this query with the ES7 team and they're looking into it.


According to the ES7 chaps in R&D, there is a digital equalizer between the tone generator and speaker amplifier which is used to optimise the internal sound system.

However, the ES7's Line In audio is analogue - it bypasses the digital equalizer and connects directly to the Line Out/Headphone output. For this reason the signal cannot be adjusted by the instrument's software.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1970031 - 10/07/12 09:06 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sullivang Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2238
Loc: Sydney, Australia
FWIW, I've noticed that the internal sounds on my (Casio) PX-330 sound fuller and more natural than the audio input - could be a similar issue.

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#1970033 - 10/07/12 09:25 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Yes, I expect so, although I would prefer to use the word 'characteristic' instead of 'issue'. wink

I recall Mike Martin from Casio America noting that the new PX-350 will record the Line In audio in addition to the internal sound when using the USB audio (WAV) recorder - that's quite a cool feature. Of the current Kawai models, only the MP10 and CA95 offer this functionality.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1970157 - 10/08/12 03:49 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi James,

I knew about the EQ from Kawai Germany. The 'character' thing is that also over headphones the sound is not clear; which doesn't have anything to do with the absence of a correction filter for the speaker playback. But we'll get it sorted out eventually - I hope.

All the rest is great with the ES7 - this is the only thing that bothers me. RH II I got used to. It's definitely different than RH (should be I guess), but very playable.

WIth the best cabling etc, the sound input sounds non-transparant, more compressed, stressed, bit more narrow in stereo depth and a sometimes a tiny bit distorted with great dynamics. It's easily audible when you AB between the source or a USB recording of the source and the same thing over line-in , using studio quality headphones.

Could be my unit, could be the design. That's what I'm trying to figure out..

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#1970161 - 10/08/12 04:08 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello JFP,

If you are already in contact with Kawai Germany on this matter, it's perhaps no longer necessary for me to get involved.

I hope you are able to find a resolution to your problem shortly.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1970178 - 10/08/12 06:26 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi James,

Thanks. I know it's perhaps not something to post on a forum. On the other hand I was trying to find out if I'm the only one having this 'special sound character ;-) of the audio input, or that other ES7 owners have the same experiencing the same thing.

Intended use is stand-alone (only internal sounds) and with software instruments (using the audio-in), therefore audio-in is a valuable feature for me. Others may not care, or not use it at all.

Some things have crossed in timing during the past few days, initially I didn't know about the EQ and went all the way to the dealer, to find the answer later in my email. The stressful sound has not been explained by it though. Enough on this.

The ES7 is otherwise a fine instrument which I would certainly recommend to test if anyone has the change to do so.

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#1971304 - 10/10/12 12:44 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
teiresias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 11
I'm eager to give the ES7 a try (and maybe make it my first DP), but stock seems scarce at the moment, both locally and at the traditional online places as well (if they even have the thing listed in their offered products at all).

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#1971472 - 10/10/12 05:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
teiresias, may I ask where you're based?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1973081 - 10/14/12 09:44 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
teiresias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 11
I'm in Hampton Roads in Virginia. Granted, I haven't been to the one Kawai retailer I know of down here, nor the one in Richmond I know of, but neither of them ever carried the portable Kawai products anyway so I wouldn't expect them to have it. I'm mainly talking about seeing the ES7 show up in the traditional online retailers people are used to perusing for Kawai products.

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#1973098 - 10/14/12 10:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
Similar problem here in the UK. People on the forum are enthusiastic about Kawai DPs, but finding stockists is difficult enough, finding stockists with actual stock even more so.

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#1973239 - 10/14/12 05:31 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
teiresias, sandalholme, for information regarding Kawai dealers that stock the ES7, please contact the customer support departments of Kawai America and Kawai UK respectively:

http://kawaius.com/nav_links/contacts2010.html
http://www.kawai.co.uk/contact_en.htm

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1973475 - 10/15/12 07:30 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
James, I don't want to be nit-picky - I got great service from Kawai UK for my RX2 - but I've been to the UK site. No list of stockists, no facility to put in a post code and get a list, no contact form to fill in, no facility for emailing. (As far as I could see)

So the only way is to phone up and pay the cost of a long distance call. Not a very 20th century way of presenting oneself, let alone 21st century. I do believe Kawai make great products but you don't make it easy for potential customers to try them!

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#1973496 - 10/15/12 08:48 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
sandalholme, a UK dealer search feature is currently in development. In the mean time, the 'Contact' page lists separate email addresses for sales, servicing, and technical support:

http://www.kawai.de/contact_en.htm

Originally Posted By: sandalholme
I do believe Kawai make great products but you don't make it easy for potential customers to try them!


Well, I can't argue with that, I'm afraid...
But hey, it could be worse - you could be a Nord fan living in Japan!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1973530 - 10/15/12 10:31 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
Many thanks James. The first link works and I may yet find a dealer with stock less than 100 miles away!

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#1973683 - 10/15/12 04:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
sandalholme, happy to help!

Please do give the dealer(s) a call to check that they have the instrument in stock before setting out. I would also recommend contacting Kawai UK, just in case there are other shops not listed on the dealer locator.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1977136 - 10/22/12 02:30 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
fiatlux Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15
I am shopping for a first dp under 2000€ and was initially looking at the roland hp 503 and yamaha clp 430. Liked a kawai ca65 but that was over budget, and wife decided a "home piano" would not look good at home. She preferred (or disliked less) a stage piano on stand.

Enters the es-7 as a contender. Would a roland fp-7f be any better (still within budget)? I'd love an mp10, but that's again over budget and the add'l powered speakers would ruin its WAF.

Any recommendation?
_________________________
Yamaha CLP 440 - M-Audio Keyrig 49 on Mac or iPad

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#1977166 - 10/22/12 03:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
ES7 is a really sleek and non-intrusive design with the Kawai stand and three pedal unit. The music stand that comes with the accessories is translucent, so visually not filling in any space either. Even with the stand it is still very easy to move the set around in the room. Try that with a full cabinet.

Is it better than/ equal to the FP7. Well - at least it is cheaper over here. I think the keybeds are on par - but also a bit different ; meaning you have to choose what you like. The piano sound is a bigger difference. The Roland is technically more advanced, but you have to like it - because it is sometimes just a little bit artificial. The Kawai is taken from a total other grand and pure technically a bit aging; again a matter of taste; they both sound good.

When the 'features' I personally have with my ES7 unit are worked out , or at least someone can tell me what could possibly be going on in the amp system, I would finally be 100% happy with the ES7. On the other hand, the FP7 might have an 'thingie' too - you never know on beforehand; but the FP7 is around longer, so some production revisions may have been made already.

Tough choice. I'm afraid you would have to try them both ( standard answer, but true). If they don't have an ES together with the pedal unit and stand, I can PM a picture of the ES set in a real room. Just to get an impression.

Hope this helps. Neither is bad I think....

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#1977232 - 10/22/12 06:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
btcomm Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 278
Loc: California
I've been hoping to replace my 4 year old Roland FP-4 and after trying out many digitals including the FP-7F which I did not like because of the very hard bottoming out of the keys I finally thought I'm going to get the Kawai ES7. Everything about it seems just perfect for what I'm looking for. Wrong. There are 4 or 5 official Kawai dealers in my area (the San Francisco Bay Area) and 2 have never heard of it and the other 3 don't carry the ES7. Even though the piano on their websites they will not carry one in their store for me or anyone else to try out first. I was told I could buy one -- without trying it out -- yeh, right. I got the impression from one of the sales guys who was more up front with me that if a customer didn't like the piano they would be stuck with it somehow and that's why they won't have one in their store. It was like pulling teeth to get any info from any of these dealers concerning Kawai and they all said they had plenty of Rolands and Yamahas and other brands for me to try out. I have since given up on Kawai if this is what it's going to be like to buy another digital. I'm envious that a few others have been able to actually see and try one out. Not anywhere in my area.

Back to the drawing board.

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#1977247 - 10/22/12 07:12 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9693
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
btcomm, may I suggest that you contact Kawai America to enquire into dealers that do stock the ES7 in your area.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1977249 - 10/22/12 07:17 PM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
Emil M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 7
In the US only certain Kawai dealers have them up on demo, and have them in stock.

In Los Angeles, http://www.pierresfinepianos.com should have them.

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#1977407 - 10/23/12 03:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 [Re: vegasE]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Couldn't you just order it ? It seems it's "just perfect for what I'm looking for" as you said. And its not a bad board. The FP7f you already tried and didn't like, so there's not awful lot else to choose from. You could perhaps try a PX-350 , but at least for the looks the FP7 and ES7 are better...(in case that's an argument too).

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