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#1968593 - 10/04/12 09:27 AM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2057
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
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An older tech I know puts a dab of laundry starch on the cloth with an eye dropper and inserts a pointed pin slightly larger than the wire. This will compact the cloth a touch and leave it that way when the pins removed. A bit of CLP on it afterwards and its good to go. This is a good long term solution with lower quality/softer density bushings that are simply sized a little too thick. They typically wear in with use faster than a better/denser material and if you remove material from them, you could end up with sloppy/loose guides down the road.
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Piano Technician George Brown College /85 Niagara Region
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#1968606 - 10/04/12 10:09 AM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 2859
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Insert #6 bridge pin and treat with VS Profelt, or a mix of alcohol and water (more alcohol reduces sizing aggressiveness). Fair warning, I have not personally used either of these techniques.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009 M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011 PTG Associate Member Certified Dampp-Chaser installer
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#1968656 - 10/04/12 11:42 AM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Muskoka, Ontario
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I heat up a #6 bridge pin and iron the bushing. It's a little tricky to heat it up to the right temperature. I use my temperature controlled shank twisting pliers set on low. It works immediately and seems to hold up well.
Tim
Edited by Tim Sullivan (10/04/12 11:43 AM) Edit Reason: Typo
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#1968694 - 10/04/12 01:21 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 720
Loc: Tennessee
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Greetings, Tight bushings on old pianos are slightly different than the ones on new. Newer bushings that are tightening up (in my experience), seem to have softer, thicker,spongier cloth. This material doesn't stay eased when the traditional tapered punch is used, unless taken to a very loose fit. Older cloth seems less resilient, and will often remain as eased. Heat has its place if repairs are to be made in the field,as does a fine rat-tail file. When it is a job that has the dampers out,and there is overnight time for it to dry, the use of Pro-felt with appropriately over-sized caul/pins has always given me consistent,durable results. Regards,
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#1968771 - 10/04/12 04:23 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1661
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
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I've been looking for information on the contents and action of VS Profelt, but haven't managed to find anything. Can someone give me a quick run-down?
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano. 1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
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#1968788 - 10/04/12 04:38 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 720
Loc: Tennessee
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Greetings, As I understand it, it is a proprietary mix of water, fabric softener and silicone. When taken up by the felt, with a centerpin in the bushing, there is a significant increase in tightness. When it dries, it shrinks this compressed felt to nearly the exact dimension of the pin, but with a much firmer result. The same thing happens in the key bushings when used with cauls. I only use it in center pinning when I have to install a new bushing. Pro-felting a new centerpin bushing with a #19 pin in it overnight usually gives me a firm, easy to ream, bushing that will stay near where I leave it for a service period or two. The silicone is just a trace, but seems to keep the heavy use pianos more friction free for a longer time than the key bushings without it. Regards,
Edited by Ed Foote (10/04/12 04:41 PM)
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#1968799 - 10/04/12 05:13 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: Mark R.]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 2859
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Refer to Journal articles by Bruce Dornfeld, June and July 2010.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009 M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011 PTG Associate Member Certified Dampp-Chaser installer
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#1968859 - 10/04/12 08:00 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2402
Loc: PA
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Protek. Never had a recurrence.
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#1968873 - 10/04/12 08:45 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1487
Loc: Philadelphia area
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Protek 'Prolube' works great on damper rail bushings.
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#1968893 - 10/04/12 10:25 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 1643
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I use an upright damper wire with teflon powder to burnish the felt.
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#1969252 - 10/05/12 08:52 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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Full Member
Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 138
Loc: Forte Farm, Lexington, KY
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On the other hand a red flag for me is that it just came out of the box. When it's a new piano that's been on its side, I always tighten the damper guide rail screws to make sure that the real problem isn't that the guide rail has shifted towards the bass making the wires bind in the guide rail bushing.
_________________________
Sally Phillips Piano Technician One can always find something to improve. 2 Steinway Os, Steinway B & C, C. Bechstein A Phillips Piano Tech
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#1969255 - 10/05/12 09:14 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3516
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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Good points Sally. I have seen new pianos with all dampers seated slightly to the left of center... ...I've used Protek and Prolube with some success before, but it doesn't always work.... Agreed. If the bushings (or center pins) are tight, lubrication can work if the problem is only marginal. Normally, re-pinning or re-sizing of the bushing is needed for a reliable long term repair.
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#1969377 - 10/06/12 09:07 AM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: S. Phillips]
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Full Member
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 337
Loc: new york city
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On the other hand a red flag for me is that it just came out of the box. When it's a new piano that's been on its side, I always tighten the damper guide rail screws to make sure that the real problem isn't that the guide rail has shifted towards the bass making the wires bind in the guide rail bushing. Hi Sally, this is a good point that I did not address in the initial post. I did check and the guide rail wasn't loose; also the affected dampers weren't contiguous to each other...
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#1969443 - 10/06/12 01:03 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: beethoven986]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 4422
Loc: France
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Insert #6 bridge pin and treat with VS Profelt, or a mix of alcohol and water (more alcohol reduces sizing aggressiveness). Fair warning, I have not personally used either of these techniques. reverse : more alcohol more aggressive (moisture o deeper in the wood, also reaction of the cloth is stronger) a heated rod woks well (in a flame or with a soldering iron and a goodie to reduce the heating) bushing quality indeed may be taken in account.
Edited by Kamin (10/06/12 01:06 PM)
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#1969484 - 10/06/12 03:04 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: Olek]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 819
Loc: Sicily - Italy
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Insert #6 bridge pin and treat with VS Profelt, or a mix of alcohol and water (more alcohol reduces sizing aggressiveness). Fair warning, I have not personally used either of these techniques. reverse : more alcohol more aggressive (moisture o deeper in the wood, also reaction of the cloth is stronger) a heated rod woks well (in a flame or with a soldering iron and a goodie to reduce the heating) bushing quality indeed may be taken in account. Plus one, make use of a lighter and make the (edit: the very end of the...) damper wire incandescent, insert the wire into the guide, repeat if necessary, do not over do. Regards, a.c.
Edited by alfredo capurso (10/07/12 04:52 AM)
_________________________
alfredo
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#1969943 - 10/07/12 05:36 PM
Re: Easing damper guide rail bushings
[Re: James Carney]
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Full Member
Registered: 02/25/12
Posts: 43
Loc: Chicago, IL
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For dampers that are seizing up: I pop the damper wire out of the guide rail, heat a pointed capstan tool with a lighter just a bit, and carefully iron the bushing.
I've used Protek to good effect but I'm alway concerned about applying a liquid lubricant to felt. I apply it lightly to the damper wire after cleaning it. I prefer using microfine teflon powder directly on the felt bushings.
_________________________
“Music in the soul can be heard by the Universe.” ~Lao Tzu Richard J Beebe Piano Technician & Collaborative Pianist Bb Piano Service Chicago, Illinois www.bbpianoservice.combbpianoservice@gmail.com
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