Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Liszt Ballade 2 from scratch in 5 months - feasible?

Hey guys, long time lurker here. I have an audition of sorts in March 2013 to get into "advanced" performance for the next academic year. The audition is around 10-15 minutes long, and there's no set guidelines on what to play. So my question(s) is this:

-Is it possible to get the Liszt ballade 2 up to performance standard in 5 months from scratch(list of stuff I'm playing below to show where I'm at technically...)? Its one of my favorite pieces and I've always wanted to play it.

or....

-Would it make a better impression if I were to play a variety of shorter stuff in the audition instead of the ballade taking up my whole audition?

I'm listing some of the stuff I've played

-Mozart C minor fantasia

-Beethoven Pathetique

-Beethoven Op 90.

-Beethoven Op 2 No 1

-Bach Italian Concerto

-Liszt Liebestraume 3

-Rachmaninoff Op 23 no 5

(For some reason I just can't think of any more stuff I've played, hope this will be enough to gauge my level)

Ah, working on:

-Beethoven Tempest (I find this quite easy IMO)

-Liszt Un sospiro

-Mozart k310

Thanks for your time

Hard to say from just a list but it might be possible if you worked really hard on it.

Yes.

Piq: I think the Liszt Ballade is a bigger hill than any of those pieces you mentioned, so it's iffy. I think it would be advisable at least to have a fall-back plan, in case you see that the Ballade isn't coming like it should. But we can't rule out that the Ballade would be OK. Since the piece seems to be grabbing you right now, I'd say you can at least start going with it and see how it goes -- but if you don't have it pretty well in hand a couple of months in advance, go to plan B.

Since I assume you haven't already committed to some piece for the audition(like debrucey already having announced a recital program), I would just review/prepare some of your already learned pieces to a level suitable for the audition and then spend the rest of your time working on the Ballade. If this means that after learning your backup pieces you'd have to work only on the Ballade for the rest of the 5 months, that might not be a great idea but it would be up to you and your teacher.

Another possibility would be to find another piece that's shorter and easier than the Ballade but appeals to you almost as much and combine that new piece with one of your previously learned pieces. The only one I can think of offhand that reminds me a little of the Ballade is this one, which is certainly difficult but maybe not as hard as the Ballade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6q2uPUei3Y

Since we don't know how many hours a day you can practice, it's hard to judge what you could learn in 5 months even if we were completely knowledgeable about your current skill level.

Especially not knowing how long it took to learn the pieces on the list, or how well you learned them..

Those are the two most important criteria, both unknowns, so it means that we can't answer the original question.

Regards,

....although the fact (I think it's a fact!) that the Liszt piece is more demanding than any of those is something to go on, for part of the answer. That's what I tried to do.

Yes, BUT...


Mozart 310 + Un Sospiro would make a great audition.

99.9% of the people who think Tempest is easy aren't playing it well.

99.9% of people who think anything is "easy" aren't playing it well.

I don't think many people who "play really well" tend to use "easy" to describe any piece of music.

Pollini told Jeffrey Swann that he thought the Chopin E flat Prelude was easy.

+1! To play Beethoven's op. 31 no 2 piano sonata (or just about any of the major Beethoven piano sonatas) really well is difficult.

The main technical difficulties in the Ballade are like this:

- Rapid broken octaves (similar to first movement of Pathetique, but both hands)
- Rapid LH chromatic scales
- Extensive hand-crossing
- Interlocking octave passages
- Sweeping upward scale passages near the end

If you can handle all of that, you can play this Ballade.

In general, though, it is usually better to play 2-3 contrasting pieces. A Bach P&F, Beethoven sonata movement and Chopin etude would be a standard way to approach it, substituting a more modern piece if you are especially good at that period.

I would think that this would be the better way to go, unless the audition requirements have some specifics about what you are to play. Otherwise, it seems you are planning to put all your eggs in one (perhaps) flimsy basket.

Regards,

Agree with Jeffrey and Bruce. This consideration may be more important than whether or not you can prepare the piece in time.

Thanks for all the replies guys

From the comments I think I won't learn the Ballade, Kreisler's suggestion of K310 + Un sospiro seems quite good, will probably go with that.

I should clarify my comment with the Tempest being easy. Obviously its not "easy" but I thought it would be on a different level than the Pathetique or op.90. When I first learned the Pathetique it was quite difficult for me, but learning the Tempest hasn't given me that type of challenge, hence why I think its "easy". Shrug.

Also, was wondering why does everyone do Chopin etudes at these type of auditions? Are they more "impressive"...?

They're not just impressive, they're short. Plus they have a narrow focus. Unless you're doing the whole set, you can play to your strengths.

No. Technically, your repertoire doesn't touch at all upon the technical demands of the Liszt ballade, and the sort of musical expression in the Ballade is something which isn't present in any of your current repertoire. Given the time constraints, it's not certain that you'll be able to put together a convincing performance of this (somewhat flawed) masterpiece.

^ Kuanpiano, I agree with your assessment of the technical difficulties, but how in your opinion is the ballade 'somewhat flawed'?

I have heard many flawed performances (including Horowitz IMO), though I do not feel the composition itself is flawed. (Arrau's magisterial recording convinced me that any perceived faults were not with Liszt.)

Agree with Jason. To me, this is a romantic era piano work of the highest order. I think it's one of Liszt's most perfect compositions. None of it is less inspired than any other part, it's very tightly, masterfully constructed, and simply contains much of what makes Liszt great - but most performances i've heard don't do it justice (IMO).

Reminds me of a charming Amy Fay anecdote:

...I wasn't really ready to play to him, but I took his second Ballade with me, and thought I'd ask him some questions about some hard places in it. He insisted upon my playing it. When we came in he looked indisposed and nervous, and there happened to be a good many artists there. We always lay our notes on the table, and he takes them, looks them over, and calls out what he'll have played. He remarked this piece and called out "_Wer spielt diese grosse maechtige Ballade von mir?_ (Who plays this great and mighty ballad of mine?)" I felt as if he had asked "Who killed Cock Robin?" and as if I were the one who had done it, only I did not feel like "owning up" to it quite so glibly as the sparrow had, for Liszt seemed to be in very bad humour, and had roughed the one who had played before me. I finally mustered up my courage and said "_Ich_," but told him I did not know it perfectly yet. He said, "No matter; play it." So I sat down, expecting he would take my head off, but, strange to say, he seemed to be delighted with my playing, and said that I had "quite touched him." Think of that from Liszt, and when I was playing his own composition! When I went out he accompanied me to the door, took my hand in both of his and said, "To-day you've covered yourself with glory!" I told him I had only _begun_ it, and I hoped he would let me play it again when I knew it better. "What," said he, "I must pay you a still greater compliment, must I?" "Of course," said I. "_Il faut vouz gater?_" "Oui," said I. He laughed.