Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Letting students play on new grand piano?

The student had a little temper tantrum and stomped on the pedal .

Oh! How awful!

Where do these students come from? Arg! I have never, ever, in my 30 years of teaching, encountered any of the behaviors so many people talk about with students.

Did you show the student the door, and notify the parent that lessons are terminated?

A few years ago a student who had stopped lessons at an advanced level (gr. 8 or 9?) resumed lessons, and wrote in this forum on the issue. She had a grand at home, and was not able to produce the nuanced playing on her teacher's upright, and would have liked to play on her teacher's grand. So wouldn't the student's level be a factor, rather than it being a reward for good practicing (i.e., need)?

In terms of the Stradivarius, when students reach a certain level they are advised to upgrade to a better violin since greater responsiveness is needed. That same responsiveness means that weak player will not be able to draw a good sound out of a top quality instrument: it responds to poor playing as much as to good playing. I know of one teacher who did let his student try his instrument in order to drive home the point of what kind of practicing was needed - it was less forgiving that a student instrument and squawked.

I believe there are several factors at play here. First, the instrument. The OP's grand is no ordinary grand. It is one of the finest being crafted today. And the price shows it. Just because she now owns one doesn't obligate her to use it in the studio or use it for lessons. She has a very fine upright which she uses for teaching, and a quality upright, well maintained, can be used in lieu of a grand for all but the most exacting detail. Her upright probably matches the performance of most grands.

The second issue, which I addressed, is that when more expensive instruments are introduced into the studio, the tuition should reflect the upgrade. As P*D pointed out, the market may not support that, but that's a business decision. If a teacher chooses not to raise fees after significant upgrades, they are selling themselves short, or to rephrase it, undermining their business, income and future.

The third issue, which I've addressed in the past, is the presumption of students that piano teachers somehow owe them the use of premium instruments at no extra charge. This really doesn't need amplification.

I was asking whether a student at an advanced level should be playing a better quality instrument. This has nothing to do with the notion of a teacher "owing" anything to the student. My thought is that teaching decisions are based on teaching needs: what do I need in order to teach this student at this level?

I have to agree with Kayvee. I would not want lessons on a piano that was not a grand. I have always had lessons on a grand, both way back in college and at the school where I take lessons now. All private lessons at the school where I take are on either Steinway or Yamaha grands.
Judy

Well, that's a given, but it sounds as if she's already offering lessons on a better quality instrument.

Several students here seem to think otherwise, that we owe them to let them use our grands.

Absolutely, but within the economic confines of what/where we are. To expect a teacher to offer you lessons at $50/mo but then offer lessons on an $80,000 grand shows total economic ignorance.

<just thinking out of left field here>

If you're not using the grand for teaching, I assume its just for personal use. In which case doesn't it call into question whether this is a work tool?

If its a work tool (and I'm guessing US tax law here - so could be WAAAY off) then presumably its a valid expense for tax deductions. If its not a work tool then its may not be a valid expense for tax deductions.

It may be cheaper for you to use it in lessons than to not use it - IF you want to remain compliant beyond question with tax rules.

[Of course whether the IRS would audit down to the level of making sure that you do actually *do* use a particular piano for your teaching is pretty unlikely - so you can probably safely commit tax fraud without any fear of being caught by anything more than your conscience!]

This is the funniest post I've read in several months.

Isn't teacher prep and practice work? So it's tax deductible.
Invite mr or ms IRS to a concert!

I am a retired teacher who now teaches people to ride motorcycles in the Motorcycle Safety program Basic Rider Course. Neither BRC nor Advanced Rider Course students ride my bike, a Honda Goldwing, which is larger and nicer than the training bikes. In time they will get their own. You are entitled to enjoy and preserve your wonderful gift to yourself as just that.

As a student's dad, I am in favor of John Brook's suggestion. Once a student is at some reasonable level of proficiency, it would be a treat for the student to be able to play on such a fine instrument.

I am in the SF bay area too :-) If I ever have reason to be dissatisfied with our current teacher (she is actually fantastic!), I will be tempted to check how far / near you are located.

It wouldn't be, if it was your piano ...

If I purchased a Shigeru there is NO WAY my students would be touching it, apart from as a very special treat.

I wouldn't feel guilty about it.

The taxable expense point was a good one, but I guess if you do your own practice of students pieces and lesson preparation at it, that technically you are still using it for work. I'm sure you'll also find yourself using it to play through pieces with a student, or do duets together, further covering that area.

Let me put it this way. If I was your student, and you let me play on your seven foot grand for my piano lesson, say once a month, you'd be my new best friend!

IF I was getting a nice grand(wish I could), I think I'd really have to know my student well before letting them play on it, and I'd probably only let an older student play on it.

If you're worried about them getting the keys dirty, that's totally understandable. I always clean my piano after my student comes over. Especially when he rubs his hand across his nostrils after he sneezes. EW.

Or if you're worried they'll pick at the seat or wood under the keyboard...well, that's another thing...

Go back to Carnes and see what kind of a trade-up deal you can get for your upright. Your students can very well have a lovely music education on a sturdy RX-2 or -3... which will look well with the SK. Occasionally, you may allow certain picked students to play the SK.

I think you will get a good price, considering your recent purchase, and also with the thought in mind that some of those students may come to Carnes to buy what they liked in the studio. Carnes may also send you their best tech to care for them, and if they don't, I'll hook you up by PM.

A new family tradition will be born thereby.

Carnes does not blatantly encourage that teachers send buyers their way for a cash kickback, while the student is kept in the dark about the arrangement. But in a more subtle and genteel way, one hand washes the other; more in the nature of, 'you've helped keep their business healthy, and they'll want to help you keep yours healthy also.'

As for the cost, stick it to your accountant; find a way to write it off on the fast track. Minnie is right that piano maintenance for a teaching situation is deductible, but expensive and to be budgeted for. And in the end, the ratepayers will have to absorb their share. It will not tax them overmuch. What taxes them is crummy school pianos that are badly maintained yet the fees are still high.

I should probably add context for what I said before:

I took my brother to a trial lesson a few years ago. Not only was the teacher late (and this was at her house), but when she finally arrived, she sat down at her grand piano...and then turned to her upright that was right next to it.

The instrument was, without question, pretty messed up. Way too bright in some registers, muddy in others, I could see the keys weren't in the greatest condition, etc etc etc.

Right next to her very nice grand.

Why would I want to learn on that instrument? Of course, if your upright is good, then there isn't really a problem. But I'd still feel odd if my teacher had me play on an 'inferior' instrument.

I would ask two questions.

Is the grand inherently more fragile than the upright? I would have guessed not, but I don't know, and that makes a difference.

Is the grand a better learning platform for a beginning student, because the feedback is more directly tied to the input, or more sensitive, etc.? Or worse, because the response will differ from the practice piano even more than the upright? or neutral because it doesn't make any difference at their level?

It would seem to me the the first question overrides. If the grand is significantly more fragile, then one only graduates to it after proving safety.

But if not, any teacher would use the best learning approach, and if that's the grand, then use it.

For the sake of discussion, let me point out that the teacher's home isn't their studio. They may have designated a certain area as a studio, such as a family room, a room in the basement or over the garage, or bedroom adjacent to the entry. There are two separate entities occupying adjacent space. What is used for the business is that which is purchased by the business for use by the business. What is purchased by the teacher for personal use doesn't suddenly transfer to the business because a client happens to see it and wants to use it. Likewise, equipment purchased by the business may be designated for use by clients or not. The OP has zero obligation, morally, ethically, or practically, to use her new piano for teaching clients, if that is her choice.

FWIW, my students learn on a very nice Boston vertical. I just spent $900 having it totally regulated, revoiced, tuned, etc. (It was purchased new in 1999 and ready for serious reconditioning.) The instrument shows signs of cosmetic wear and tear, obviously, with hundreds of students having learned and advanced on it. We do use the Grotrian grand for monthly performance classes, but that's my choice. The students have no say in the matter.