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#1971806 - 10/11/12 12:55 PM HP505 HP507 difference
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
Who knows about the additional features of the HP507 compared to HP505. Are they worth to spend 30% more on the price. If I think on the piano designer which is available for the 507 and not for the 505, probably a software solution could do the same and might be cheaper?

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#1971813 - 10/11/12 01:08 PM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1675
Loc: Portugal
Bigger display, more solid look, better sound system (60w vs 30w), and as you say, some more controllable parameters such as piano designer.

But, since it has the same sound engine and the keyboard (PHAIII, ivory feel) is the same on both, I would definitely not consider it worth the extra money.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1971837 - 10/11/12 02:08 PM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
I wouldn´t consider the Piano Designer to be worth it.
And if you would most of the time play with headphones, I wouldn´t consider to spend the extra money neither.
But if using the speaker system frequently, then you really should listen to both instruments. I clearly would have prefered the 507 for this, but couldn´t afford it.
You might want to read in my recent review on the HP-505, how good the HP505 speaker system is, and that the 507 is even better!!
In England they are at the moment giving away together with a purchase of the 507 an iPad. You can use the iPad as a more userfriendly User Interface to the 505 and 507 functions. You might need to purchase an adpater for the iPad, or the WiFi adapter for the HP, though. If they would have had this offer here in Spain in summer when I purchased my 505, I wouldn´t have hesitated no second to go for the 507.
By the way, its piano sound is excellent, if you in general like the Roland sound. Other sounds are, let´s say, also there.
You could send me a PM with your telephone number, and I could give you a call, I am German and communication in German language might be quicker and easier when discussing if the fine details might be worth it to go for or not.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1971849 - 10/11/12 02:34 PM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: Marco M]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
Thanks Marco for this information. I think actually there is no need to go to much into details. I will try it ones more at the dealer, but at this point I should be more clear on what I want. Therefore this thread.

The primary target is to use it with headphones, since I have an acoustic grand, which I can|t use whenever I want. Nevertheless, if I get the speaker system anyway with the 505, I was thinking what could it be worth the additional power on the speakers and the piano designer. Probably me or my wife will use it in addition with the speaker system turned the loudness down. Both, the speaker system and the piano designer could be probably substituted by better component for the extra money to spend, e.g pianoteq or additional monitors. Actually I think from my profile and what was written the 505 will be the better choice.

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#1971901 - 10/11/12 03:57 PM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3806
Loc: North Carolina
If you're wondering whether the extra cost of the HP507 is worthwhile (for the better sound system) ... forget it. For the money you can buy an amplifier and speakers that will perform better than those on the HP507 ... better than on ANY digital piano at ANY price. All it takes is around $250.

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#1971964 - 10/11/12 06:01 PM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
I guess you search for a piano build in a cabinet, with readily mounted speakers, like I did? If not, the FP7F might already fit your needs, or the RD 700 NX which would probably give you more sounds and flexibility. I mention this because the HP 500 keyboards in the wooden cabinet make sufficient noise to disturb other people in the same room (reading a book or concentrating on some TV movie). The identical keyboards (PHA-III) in the stage pianos do not. If there is mentioned a PHA III Ivory Feel (700NX), or a PHA III Ivory Feel-S (FP7F), then this to my information does not make any difference in the action of the keys, but only in the color design of the key surfaces: the S-version does not intent to imitate wooden key colors.

[edited type mismatches]
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1972293 - 10/12/12 12:39 PM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: Marco M]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
yes you are right. I tried the 505 today and it has a noisy key bed. The sound was in some way dead, missing sympathic resonances. I consider the 700nx as well as an option and as you repeated the argument with the key action PHAIII S, I will look again for the pianos having this action.

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#1973001 - 10/14/12 02:52 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
I changed slightly the subject to include HP503 in this discussion.

While I tested now 505,507 and LX15, all actions and the sound via headphone is the same for me.

Main functions, covered for the 507 in the piano designer, are available for 505 503, even if the "piano designer is not provided".

To compare to the 503 I can do it only by spec. There is the gimmick of recording which I would appreciate, but the description is so confusing. I do not really get rid of the differences. It seems that the recording features are the same for 503,505,507. However input from external sources is not provided for the 503 while it is for the 505 507. Who can confirm ?

If above is true, the real difference for the pianos would be the soundsystem, and then its really a question to take the lowest model and spend some monitors for the additional amount of money.

Compared to DP90/90s the recording is more elaborated on the 500 series. This is a difference which I think is not worth to go for them.

The only short coming then for HP500 series is indeed the loud key action, but this I will survive.

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#1973070 - 10/14/12 09:09 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: ap55
While I tested now 505,507 and LX15, all actions and the sound via headphone is the same for me.

Yes, it should be exactly like this. The main difference is only in the cabinet, and in the loud speaker system in use. Keyboard and sound engine should be identical.

The 507 has a few functions more to alternate the sound in its Piano Designer menu, than the 505 has it in its Function menue. As i pointed out in my review on the 505, I don´t conisder this worth the extra price.

The 503 has a different keyboard! To my test experience it feels different, lighter, slightly wobbly, in comparison to the 505/507! Roland US does not claim for it a PHA-III action with Ivory Feel or Ivory Feel-S finish, but only name the finish to be Ivory-Feel-S without stating on the action. They obviously don´t state in the comercials on the action, because it is not a PHA-III. The information is given by what is not mentioned!
I somewhere else (forgot where, either Roland Germany or Roland Spain) read that the 503 would have a PHA-II action. Besides having only 2 instead of 3 sensors, its action to me felt different, and others told me the same. Again others here on the forum instead mentioned it would only be a difference in the number of the sensors. Finally I trust my feelings and claim it is a different weighted action.
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1973095 - 10/14/12 10:16 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
The German prosect http://www.rolandmusik.de/downloads/prospekte/Pocket.pdf page 161, 167 claims HP503 S-action, which is three sensors. feel is different from the surface material on the black keys, looks cheap plastic. On the fp7 this action felt a bit more wobbly the the PHAIII. Nevetheless I expect it is the same quality. Therefore 500 Euro more have to spend for the two little additional tweeters and questionalbe add on of electronics to operate them.

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#1973136 - 10/14/12 11:35 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1675
Loc: Portugal
Curious, that. When I compared the HP series in the shops last year, the Roland HP302 (PHAII) keyboard was identical to the PHA III (on HP307) in terms of firmness and authenticity of feel. If there was any difference at all the PHAII had a slightly heavier action. (I assume this may be because the HP307 had been more heavily played-in.)

In a way, I'm glad I opted for the older HP302 (with PHAII) rather than the new HP503 (with tri-sensor 'Feel-S') which is reported to be inferior and 'wobbly' by Marco M.

Newer is not always better.....the ancient Yamaha CLP-990 being a classic case.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1973250 - 10/14/12 06:08 PM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: toddy]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 181
From http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1190/470
Quote:
The HP-503 features new Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action. The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency.
_________________________
Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#1973273 - 10/14/12 06:41 PM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: torhu]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1675
Loc: Portugal
With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III,

Well yes - that's what I thought when this range first came out.

So how come it feels 'wobbly' in comparison with HP505/507? (scratches head)
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#1973433 - 10/15/12 03:42 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: toddy]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
I am now wondering if Roland meanwhile changed names on their actions, or if I am from the beginning mislead in this. Up to now I was pretty sure that the 503 has a PHA-II, but this name ‘disappeared’ from all Roland websites. Then, they seem to now only use the term “Ivory Feel –S” for it, but still never call it to be “PHA-III”, like emphasized in their commercials for the 505/507. For not understandable reasons, not calling it a PHA-III, they claim in the announcement which TODDY found that it anyway would be the same.

Here is an expert from my loooong review, in which you will find my concerns about the keyboard of the 503, however it is named now. I didn´t run into my there mentioned concerns on any of the 505 and 507 keyboards which I have got hands on, but only on the 503. Unfortunately I can´t go back to any store to repeat my test – I am living out of civilization and have no well sorted store close.
These have been my findings (http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1965799):

“----
DIGITAL PIANO KEYBOARDS
In my opinion a ROLAND PHA-II action of a tested HP-503 imitated best the light weighted acoustic keyboards, featuring a slightly perceptible "see-saw" point half way pressing down the key, like I thought to have felt it also on the light weight keyboard (cheap and expensive) acoustic pianos. This "see-saw" point in conjunction with the lighter keys to me let the keyboard feel a little bit less stable / less precise / a little bit wobbly in its mechanical action, though. Well, but this does not differ at all from my impressions gained at the (cheap and expensive) acoustic piano keyboards. I did not feel any “see-saw” feeling on the PHA-III keyboards (HP-505/507), which in my test felt to provide slightly heavier keys, giving in my imagination higher precision and stability to the PHA-III. It felt more mature than the PHA-II. Interestingly I could not confirm this difference between PHA-II and PHA-III in my comparison on the same instrument models in a different store. There the PHA-II was not wobbly and without “see-saw” feeling, it just felt lighter than the PHA-III.
(…)
I wonder, if either the fabrication of tested Yamaha GH3 and Roland PHA-II keyboards right away produces significant variations in the mechanical characteristics of these keyboards, or if the instruments might have changed their characteristics from being treated to hard in the expositions. I didn´t ask in the stores, how heavily the instruments have been used, but knowing that the HP-503 with its PHA-II is only half a year on the market, I more believe in production variance. Having then noticed that on several Kawai digital pianos in different stores, keys haven´t been mounted all to the exactly same height, and reading in the forum about uneven spacing between keys found sometimes on Kawai keyboards, I believe even stronger in production variances.
-----“



The “see-saw” point I mentioned could be what professionals know to be the “let-off” on an acoustic, and Roland in the 503 imitated it very good, while in the 505/507 with its to me slightly heavier feeling keys is not so clearly noticeable anymore? Remember that I am not a well experienced piano player, as stated clearly in my review, but anyway trust in what I feel on my fingers.

I am wondering that no Roland official is willing to comment on the Roland keyboards here in pianoworld. Aren´t they close enough to the customer to care for the hot topics in pianoworld? This forum is so prominent, they should be aware of the issues in here. Hopefully somebody of you will find the chance to intensively interview some Roland specialist on some of the upcoming fairs and could give us a report...
Saludos, Marco!
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1973434 - 10/15/12 03:45 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2345
Loc: UK
I think Roland have their own site(s) for music forums, but even so I don't know if representatives from Roland participate. Worth asking over there though?

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#1973443 - 10/15/12 04:32 AM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: ap55]
RafaPolit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Quito, Ecuador
Nah, the Roland 'official' forums are fan-run and its active only for the most 'commercial' gig synths like the 700nx... a question about any other equipment takes more than 2 weeks to get answered and its fan answered. This place is much better for knowledgeable guys, fast responses and much more dependable.

As a matter of fact, I found this place after asking some questions at the Roland forum that went unanswered far longer than reasonable.

Rafa.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1973586 - 10/15/12 12:55 PM Re: HP 503 HP505 HP507 difference [Re: Marco M]
ap55 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/12
Posts: 79
Loc: Germany, Bremen
Again, even if already mentioned for another thread concerning the differences on the different roland actions: www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1968988/How_good_is_Roland_Ivory_Feel_.html:

At the dealers I have found small mechanical samples of the keyboard section to demonstrate how the action works. If I would get these pieces of hardware I would dissect them and tell the story on the difference only to close the secret with Rolands actions for this forum, it is obviously not such a secret for any other piano manufacturers action. It couldn't be so much work. Nevertheless I guess Roland wouldn't like this kind of reverse engineering.

The other point I noticed here is that for the 503 probably indeed different actions are produced and I also can imagine that the batch and usage of the keyboard will change the mechanical behavior.

Would be indeed nice if Roland could put light on these question. I think for each volkswagen engine mechanical details you will get more information then for the Roland actions. What is the secret? May be its the price only ?

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#1974405 - 10/17/12 05:24 AM Re: HP505 HP507 difference [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2625
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
For the money you can buy an amplifier and speakers that will perform better than those on the HP507 ... better than on ANY digital piano at ANY price. All it takes is around $250.


No need to spend $250, as you can get great speakers with a subwoofer for only $150:

http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers

Have been using these at the Roland V-Piano with excellent results.

Nice clarity with the satellites, and, solid bass with subwoofer.

Subwoofer is placed under left side of piano, the bass end.

Each satellite sits directly on top of V, left and right.

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