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#2015677 - 01/16/13 05:56 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 2975
Loc: Maine
I'm going to steal some of these ideas for my Song Without Words -- the part about just melody singing, and then melody plus LH, and finally all bits. And although I still don't understand really why, I'm going to force myself as advised to only do one section for a while, and then another section only after I've made strong progres at the first section. This is for bringing out the voicing and the melody. And not only that, I'm going to start in the middle with the section that is hardest for me to remember (and also includes the section that I feel is the hardest for me to voice).

I feel content with the tempo I've achieved so far (if I use the score) although if a further rise in tempo occurs I won't mind exploring a slightly faster adagio vs. my current very adagio, really lento adagio. So this is good because it means I can observe the part of Richard's advice about not worrying about the tempo and practicing slow: and actually not worry about the tempo, instead of pretending I'm not worrying about the tempo.

My memorization goes really slowly. It took me about a month to memorize my (one page) Mendelssohn, and that only happened because I was really focusing on it. I've been working on two other pieces since the start of December and I'm only partway through each of them. One is a 32-bar or so Bach Little Prelude, and I'm half-way through it (working backwards), and the other is a Clementi Sonatina, and I've only just completed through the Development (working forwards).

All of these I can play about 50% to 2x faster using the score than I can when playing from pure memory alone, which makes me wonder if there's something wrong with my memorization. Do I misunderstand what memorization is, or what really memorizing a piece means, or something?

Thank you Richard for continually sharing these ideas about how to practice and learn.
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#2015684 - 01/16/13 06:06 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 2975
Loc: Maine
Question on memorization:

Richard, you talk about memorizing little bits, and then another little bit, and so on, and then starting over, working on joining the bits. E.g. a pass memorizing 2 bars at a time, and then a pass memorizing 4 bars at a time, and then a pass memorizing 8 bars at a time.

Do you let yourself forget the earlier 2-bar bits, and relearn them when you get back to them in the 4-bar pass? Or do you work on remembering all the 2-bar bits, so that in the 4-bar pass you're just working on joining them together, rather than also having to re-memorize them?

I haven't been doing it in building bits like that anyway, I've been doing it by accumulating measures. So in the Bach Little Prelude, I memorized the last measure, and then memorized the next-to-last measure, but continued practicing the last measure too, because I didn't want to forget it. And then memorized the third measure from the end, but didn't let up on the last two measures because I'm afraid if I don't keep repeating them I'll forget them.

So even if I were strictly doing the 2-bars all through, then 4-bars all through, etc. I would feel like I needed to keep practicing and reviewing all the 2-bar bits that I had achieved so far, because otherwise I'll forget the first ones and when I get to the 4-bar stage I'll have to re-learn them.

Or is it supposed to be like that? Learn it enough to last for a while, but perhaps forget it after a while, and then re-learn it again at the 4-bar pass, and so on?

Why do so many people seem to be able to memorize so easily? If the choice facing me were "learn to read music or memorize all your music", I would be all over "learn to read music" because memorization has always in the past been such torture to me. But so many people here at PW choose the other way: they'd much rather memorize than read. Did I miss some essential piece of musical development somewhere that would make memorization easier?
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#2015690 - 01/16/13 06:18 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Wow! I've got heaps to learn and do. Thanx so much Richard, smile I really appreciate all this help smile I'll keep you all posted on my progress wink

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#2015706 - 01/16/13 06:46 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Are you aware in that in 2/2 time, the are two beats in each bar and the first one is accented (louder) than the other?


No, I wasn't aware of this at all. This is all brand new to me. Aware of it now though. Thanks

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#2015715 - 01/16/13 07:04 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
And although I still don't understand really why, I'm going to force myself as advised to only do one section for a while...
Sticking to short sections means your short term memory is more likely to hold the whole section and repetition speeds up the memorisation in both the procedural memory (finger memory) and the cognisant memory.

Building tempo happens much quicker by working on short sections. On longer sections you've typically forgotten the first bars by the time you get to the end and you have to start afresh with each repetition and so you need more repetitions to reach your "seven".

More than three repetitions of the whole piece is likely to introduce errors from tiredness where seven reps of each short section may not.
_______________________

Memorisation is slow and you have to re-memorise each day, though it gets quicker each time and lasts longer, until eventually you remember it for 24 hours and you can effectively maintain it with only a couple of repetitions each day.

There will be bad days where you just can't recall it. Here's where the score really speeds you up but you get to rely on cues. Be patient, think through the music in your head (audiation) and wait for it to come back to you. Think before you try again. Trust that it's there and just needs a little extra time. Eventually you build very strong pathways for this recall facility. This is when you get to really know it. This is cognisant memory and this is virtually bullet-proof - it nods to stage-fright but, once started, it does not bow in performance or wince at errors.

_______________________

Memorising comes easier to some than others and at different times of the day and times of life. Memorising in youth is easier than in old age. Memorising in the morning is easier than in the evening.

Once I've repeated a passage seven times from memory I know I know it. The longer I leave it the more the memory fades but I'll never truly forget it. If it's a few weeks before I start the second pass I may still be able to memorise 4 bars in the same time as I took to learn 2 before and if not I'll do another two bar pass.

I typically work on five or six pieces a day for a week (mon-fri). After a week I change the group to prevent boredom and allow assimilation. I may have worked on a few measure to a couple of pages and I'll refresh them briefly at weekends. I have four to six groups that I cycle through so I have 20-30 current pieces in varying stages of completion. So it could be a few weeks before I return to a piece and I find I can still memorise it quicker than the previous time but each time strengthens the memory further.

I'm relying on planning and past performance to be ready for the Mendelssohn Recital at the end of March. If I fall behind schedule I can squeeze other pieces to allow catch-up or work weekends. Trusting the system avoids panic. My system makes it essential to keep a journal and this helps planning. But it saves me from having to do these pieces every day for three months (gasp!).

It takes a long time on the calendar to learn a piece, but re-memorising keeps the piece fresh and exciting and the assimilation time has improved my technique. I learn a piece in less time counting actual seat time than a continuous effort but more time on the calendar.

However I learn more pieces in a year, I don't get bored with them and I remember them for...well, forever I suppose. As you know, I've kept nearly eighty pieces alive during my fifteen year hiatus and I'm expecting to bust a hundred this year.


Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
Thank you Richard for continually sharing these ideas about how to practice and learn.
Thanks, but it's just payback for all the good things I've gained from this forum.
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#2015717 - 01/16/13 07:04 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: wayne33yrs]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: wayne33yrs
Wow! I've got heaps to learn and do. Thanx so much Richard, smile I really appreciate all this help smile I'll keep you all posted on my progress wink


wink
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#2015727 - 01/16/13 07:15 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: Greener
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Are you aware in that in 2/2 time, the are two beats in each bar and the first one is accented (louder) than the other?


No, I wasn't aware of this at all. This is all brand new to me. Aware of it now though. Thanks


Jeff, we covered this five pages ago! laugh

Just kidding!

Here's a handy link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature
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#2015971 - 01/17/13 07:26 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90


cool
I need this.

Question:
I am interested in lining up Bach-Hess Cantata No. 147 as my next piece to work on. But, the only scores I have been able to find on it are mult-part and I'm not even sure what pertains to me. Any idea where I can find just the piano (harpsichord) score?

BTW, how many Bach's were there? Bach-Bach, Bach-Hess, Bach-Magdalena. Did he have 10 kids ?
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#2016004 - 01/17/13 09:04 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Bach had many children. Some died.

Anna Magdalena was his second wife. Carl Philip Emmanuel was his most gifted son and dominated the period between his father and the emergence of Haydn and Mozart.

Wilhelm Friedmann was his next most gifted and Johann Christian was the first person to play the piano in public in London courtesy of the impresario Salomon.

All the other Bach's are musically insignificant.

The Bach-Hess cantata is the cantata 147 adapted by Dame Myra Hess who only died in 1965 so it will still be in copyright and shouldn't be freely available over the 'net.

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#2016207 - 01/17/13 03:38 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Am I suppose to be looping each of these sections? If so I'm struggling to "loop" the others. eg M10-14



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#2016209 - 01/17/13 03:43 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 2975
Loc: Maine
wayne, sometimes the end of a phrase loops into the start, and then I can loop it non-stop. But when it doesn't, I just pause at the end, and then start over. It will be interesting to hear what other people do.


Edited by PianoStudent88 (01/17/13 03:44 PM)
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#2016229 - 01/17/13 04:23 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
My initial intention, Wayne, was that you could loop the first phrase until you got comfortable with the rhythm, not for all the other phrases. Looping tends not to be too helpful once you've got the rhythm into the fingers as it can take the meaning out of the lines.


All subsequent phrases you should take up the first note of the next phrase then stop, think about what you've just done, what went well, what didn't, play the phrase over again in your head with a view to making corrections then have another go.

Just looping doesn't help in that situation but in the initial phrase, when you're hands are just getting used to the rhythm, melody & bass, two harmony notes, two melody notes etc. then looping can build tempo rapidly and fill you with confidence for the rest.

This piece and others like it where the same figuration dominates the piece (like Bach's Prelude number 1 from the WTC) can benefit from this technique.
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#2016290 - 01/17/13 07:01 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1843
Loc: Sheffield UK
Ok, I get you, be in touch 2moz smile

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#2016766 - 01/18/13 02:49 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9 No, 2

Giving this a bit higher practice priority as we are looking at it here. Seems to be coming along fine so far.

For the squiggly thing above the F in M5, I am to just play F,G,F and continue, then the next one above the Eb will be Eb, F, Eb continue? Also, the tr in M7 is a trill that I just continue for the duration of this note and I am playing F,G? For the squiggly thing and the tr, is it always the note above (of the key we are in) that is added?

The LH here (M5-M8) is identical to M1-M4 and the melody is just a more melodic version. So, I would just call the chords an exact repeat.
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#2016790 - 01/18/13 03:52 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9 No, 2

Originally Posted By: Greener
For the squiggly thing above the F in M5, I am to just play F,G,F and continue, then the next one above the Eb will be Eb, F, Eb continue? Also, the tr in M7 is a trill that I just continue for the duration of this note and I am playing F,G? For the squiggly thing and the tr, is it always the note above (of the key we are in) that is added?

The LH here (M5-M8) is identical to M1-M4 and the melody is just a more melodic version. So, I would just call the chords an exact repeat.
Yes on all counts.

The upper mordent (or Pralltriller in German) is the principal note, the diatonic note above and the principal note. With a vertical line through the sign it becomes a mordent (not used here) and that is principal note, diatonic note below, and principal note.

Chopin begins trills on the principal note because of Hummell's 1825 treatise I think I mentioned earlier.

Yes, M5-8 is a harmonic repeat of M1-4.
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#2018031 - 01/20/13 08:24 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9 No, 2

M9
1 - Bb
2 - "
3 - "
4 - "
5 - "
6 - "
7 - F/A
8 - "
9 - "
10 - "
11 - "
12 - "

M10
1 - Ab
2 - "
3 - "
4 - Abm
5 - "
6 - "
7 - Eb
8 - "
9 - "
10 - "
11 - "
12 - "

M11
1 - Edim7
2 - "
3 - "
4 - C7/E
5 - "
6 - "
7 - F7
8 - "
9 - "
10 - Gm
11 - "
12 - "

M12
1 - Cm
2 - "
3 - "
4 - F7
5 - "
6 - "
7 - Bb
8 - B/A
9 - Eb/G#
10 - Em6/G
11 - F7
12 - Bb7
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#2018190 - 01/21/13 06:56 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
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Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Just a re-evaluation of those chords in M12, Jeff:
8 B7
9 E major
10 C7
11 F7
12 Bb7

Note the descent through the circle of fifths to Eb (M13)
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#2018200 - 01/21/13 07:35 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
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Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Mendelssohn - Op 102 No 1
Something has been bothering me and hoping you can help.

I thought the issue (a minor one) would work itself out as I became more familiar with this, but it has not. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that either my score is wrong, or I need to give Barenboim a lesson in counting. I suspect the former.

M12
My score has a dotted eighth note on the fifth note of the melody. Vs. dotted eighth on the first note like M14 has. But, Barenboim is playing the first eighth dotted, like M14. This also makes a difference in how the harmony lines up with the melody in this bar.

I am working on trying to bring out the melody in this piece. So, it would be good if I know that I have the melody right in the first place.

Here is the recording: Note, you can hear the dotted eighth at :55 and not at :58. But my score and the one shown here has it at :58.

Everything else seems to be fine.


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#2018262 - 01/21/13 09:56 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

M12
8 B7
9 E major
10 C7
11 F7
12 Bb7

Note the descent through the circle of fifths to Eb (M13)


I accidentally wiped out a previous post on this with the Mendelssohn one.

I get all the chords now and the circle of 5ths. thx

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#2018325 - 01/21/13 11:19 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
You're probably using Ditson, or another similar score. My score (ABRSM) and Barenboim's use the same rhythm as in M14.

I have professional recordings using both readings. Barenboim's is more consistent but Mendelssohn was quite fussy about that sort of thing (like Beethoven) and can use variety without one being better than another. Both this book, Op 102, and the previous, Op. 85, were finished at the time of Mendelssohn's death but were not with the publisher. He may not have finished proof-reading or may not have decided which alternative he preferred.

You might care to compare Beethoven's Bagatelle in G min Op. 119/1, M7-8, M15-16 and M43-44 as a typical example of Beethoven' creativity.

And yes, the Nocturne is done up to the coda now. I caught the post you lost. smile
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#2018371 - 01/21/13 12:16 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

I have professional recordings using both readings. Barenboim's is more consistent but Mendelssohn was quite fussy about that sort of thing (like Beethoven) and can use variety without one being better than another. Both this book, Op 102, and the previous, Op. 85, were finished at the time of Mendelssohn's death but were not with the publisher. He may not have finished proof-reading or may not have decided which alternative he preferred.

It is good to know then, I will not be wrong in either case. This pattern occurs in M12, M14, M25 & M27. The only time the pattern is altered (dotted on 3rd beat instead of first) is on the first occurrence. I am going to side with this being an intentional variation and play it as such. Plus, I have learned it this way smile . The difference of course is subtle, but definitely noticeable.

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#2022191 - 01/27/13 01:09 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Just a quick check in of what may be forthcoming in this thread. That is, will we be working on something new soon? The nocturne is very much a work in progress for me. It is coming along ok, but I have a few others that are being developed at the same time and it won't likely be in a position for public consumption until sometime after the Mendelssohn recital.

I for one, would still be interested to move along with other analysis. We can always revert back as needed and as we have done previously. The "Starting Out with Analysis" thread is developing nicely, and I have been keeping an watchful eye on this and it is indeed, filling in some blanks for me. Just thinking though, of the added value of this thread continuing along in conjunction, for the benefit of followers.
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“Inspiration is a guest that does not willingly visit the lazy.”
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#2022650 - 01/28/13 06:21 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
So can I assume you aren't going to finish the Nocturne or the Haydn sonata, at least just yet?

The plan was to work in tranches of a major sonata for the historical perspective, an easy and playable piece to be less intimidating and more difficult material to see the value of a structural analysis before learning to play a major piece. The Mendelssohn and the Nocturne have filled this role.

With the new Starting out... thread there may be less call for an easy piece unless you want to look at something around the grade 4 or 5 mark. Mussorgsky's Teardrop/Eine Trane, perhaps?

Do you want to work on the 'few others' currently in a state of development?

The next sonata will probably be Mozart's K.331 in A major looking at variation form. I think I encapsulated music in the starting out thread as repetition, sequence and alteration. Variation form is the most direct form of alteration.

Originally Posted By: Greener
Just thinking though, of the added value of this thread continuing along in conjunction, for the benefit of followers.
What followers?
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#2022705 - 01/28/13 08:48 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
So can I assume you aren't going to finish the Nocturne or the Haydn sonata, at least just yet?
...
Do you want to work on the 'few others' currently in a state of development?
...

This sounds like a good idea. You're right there is enough already to look at. No, I don't think we should abandon anything. So, think we should finish Haydn and the Nocturne. Another one I'm working on at about the same pace as the Nocturne is the Op 64 No 2 Chopin Waltz. So perhaps we can squeeze this in to the conversation somewhere.

I think for now though, in terms of analysis, that Haydn should get bumped back up in priority.
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Originally Posted By: Greener
Just thinking though, of the added value of this thread continuing along in conjunction, for the benefit of followers.
What followers?

Well there are 90,000+ views, so I made an assumption that there may be some interested followers. Although it would be nice to pick up the tempo of actual posting activity. We had cross posts galore when we started, but things have settled for sure. Somewhere in between would be good I think.

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#2022716 - 01/28/13 09:19 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
I'm beginning to have doubts about the validity of the 90000+ views. Most of those vocal enough to mention the thread suggest it's too hard to follow.

What do you make of 64/2 apart from the chords? At this stage you're well able to do a harmonic analysis without me.

When you get back to the Nocturne, look again at M1-4. What chords would you expect in Eb major? How do the actual chords compare? How would you put them in Roman Numerals? How easily is Chopin moving between harmonies? How is the music affecting you emotionally? What's causing that? Of the composers we've looked at so far (or any that you know), whose writing does this most resemble and why?
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#2022740 - 01/28/13 10:12 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
I'm beginning to have doubts about the validity of the 90000+ views. Most of those vocal enough to mention the thread suggest it's too hard to follow.

One thing that I have noticed is that PW pages get indexed by Google very quickly. So, a lot of views may be coming directly from search engines. Also, there are regular downloads of the scores we have previously done analysis with.

Suffice it to say, there has and is tremendous value in all that has been explored in this thread and it is far more reaching then to just the active participants.

OK, I will take your suggestions under consideration and advise back of my findings.

I've reached a major milestone with Mendelssohn today and I'm pumped.
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--Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

            

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#2022818 - 01/28/13 12:44 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
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Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Chopin Waltz in C# Minor - Op 64 No. 2
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

What do you make of 64/2 apart from the chords?

There are three main sections. To label, I would call this

ABCBAB

Section A first occurrence is M1-M32 and consists of two phrases. The first phrase M1-M4 repeats and is followed by a second phrase M9-M17. Then the entire section above repeats in slight variation.

The B section is M33-M64. This is one phrase with modification in the second occurrence and then the entire section (M33-M48) repeats.

The C section is a delightful contrast to anything so far. It is an entirely new theme from M66-M81 and repeats from M82-M97 with slight variation.

Then back to B section (identical)
Then back to A section (identical)
Then back to B section again (identical)

This is what I think ... a fabulous piece.
_________________________
“Inspiration is a guest that does not willingly visit the lazy.”
--Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

            

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#2023867 - 01/30/13 06:51 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Chopin Waltz in C# Minor - Op 64 No. 2

Yes. The central section is in D flat - the enharmonic major of C# minor.

The piu mosso section is a sequence from G# down to C# (the old 5-4-3-2-1 trick) using the first beat of each bar but look how he achieves C# on the second iteration. Truly wonderful!
_________________________
Richard

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#2023900 - 01/30/13 08:17 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1059
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Chopin Waltz in C# Minor - Op 64 No. 2
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The central section is in D flat - the enharmonic major of C# minor.

Yes, I see this by the key signature, but I am not sure what this means "enharmonic major of C# minor". Is this the first time we have come across this?

Obviously we haven't moved far (at all) on the register from C# to Db. So, I will be interested (when the time comes, as just starting to work on Piu mosso) to look at the chords of this section and get a better understanding of the contrast. I will expect more major vs. minor now for this section. But, only because you've told me so.
_________________________
“Inspiration is a guest that does not willingly visit the lazy.”
--Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

            

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#2023908 - 01/30/13 08:34 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2227
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Chopin Waltz in C# Minor - Op 64 No. 2

The piu lento moves from C# minor to C# major but written in 5 flats (Db major) instead of 7 sharps.
_________________________
Richard

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