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Page 45 of 71 < 1 2 ... 43 44 45 46 47 ... 70 71 >
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#1640216 - 03/13/11 03:38 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
I make it my policy to test the possibilities which are the easiest to diagnose and fix before moving to the more difficult ones.

I have a show this evening.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1640219 - 03/13/11 03:49 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Me too. Obviously, I start out by listening. I recognized and could hear where that squeak was coming from. Most of the time, experience will tell us where to look first but, not always. If it isn't what I thought it was, I then proceed to use the process of elimination as necessary until I track it down.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1641281 - 03/15/11 07:12 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
4 yesterday. Old Kimball grand in a church fellowship hall, another old Kimball grand in a different church sanctuary, then a 125 cent pitch raise on an old Kohler & Campbell console, and finally topped off by a new George Steck grand. Nicely paced day. smile
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1645038 - 03/21/11 02:32 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
I had a show this evening, and so I arranged to tune another piano beforehand, a Yamaha T118. When I got there, the owner told me that her daughter had dropped something onto the music desk and split it. She had ordered a new desk, but did not feel competent to drill and install it. So I spent the afternoon doing that, instead of tuning. All I carry with me is a Yankee drill, which has three bits, two of which just happen to be exactly the correct size for the screws and rubber bumpers.

It was a different CFIIIs at the show than the one last week. I realized that when I found it was missing a string, where someone had tied off one that had broken. I thought it had gone out of tune rather strangely.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1645394 - 03/21/11 06:17 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Got 8 of them tuned at the college today. OK, okkkk, so I cheated! I had help! hehehe! Another tuner did 3, I did 5. We regulated 2 brand new (6 months old or less) vertical Kawai's AGAIN, that did not have enough key dip. Tomorrow, we will have to regulate a brand new U1 with the same problem. smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1645397 - 03/21/11 06:21 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
I run into that problem a lot around here too, Jer. I always attribute it to how dry it gets. I'll regulate in the spring, and by January the aftertouch is pretty much vanished.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1645406 - 03/21/11 06:34 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Worked on a KG2 with really hard let off. Knuckles are almost flat -thinking they may need to be bolstered (would be my first set)- jacks are way under the knuckle and the balance hole is really tight. This Kawai is an early 80's, is this a common thing? No aftertouch either. At first I was thinking because of the knuckles being flat, that the hammer line would be low and be the cause of no AFTCH... but either someone has already rasied the Hammers or there's just no Aftch.
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1645418 - 03/21/11 06:58 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
If they are hard, they may need to just be replaced. How are the hammers? Maybe replace the whole set? Hammers, shanks, knuckles, flanges? Could prove to be the better way to proceed. The piano is roughly 30 years old. Sounds like it may have possibly had its fair share of use over the years?

Tight balance holes could be a humidity issue too? Is it in a basement?

It is possible some "jack tooner" got a hold of the piano and screwed up the regulation too. The fun part is figuring out if that indeed happened and then, what to do next. smile

After touch is also affected by key dip as well. Sounds like a full regulation is in order too.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1645435 - 03/21/11 07:27 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
I hear ya Jer, this is on consignment at the store and the action is hard as H E double hockey sticks, hangs real hard at let off, it just gets through and then there's no Aftch. Did a sample set in the middle, aligned jacks, set jack to knuckles and had to put a little hammer lift and just that little bit helped alot. Not sure they want to spend the $$, if you know what I mean...haha. Plus, it make my S&S A play like a dream....lol
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1645508 - 03/21/11 10:07 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Hey Les,

Depends on how badly they want to sell it I suppose. smile

Maybe a little brushing of the knuckles would soften them up a bit? I used a soft bristled brush after cleaning the crud out of the knuckles on pianos like that if they weren't willing to put much money into it. It does help to soften up the knuckles some. Then, put some soap stone on them so the jacks will slide out quicker. Raising the hammer line will definitely help after touch for sure but, you already know that! smile

If possible, tear the whole thing apart. Well, I mean, take the stack off and then the keys. Clean and lubricate the balance rail pins and everything else in there, capstans etc. Then, do likewise with the action. It always makes a huge difference in touch afterward.

_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1645651 - 03/22/11 05:27 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Les,

By "bolstering", are you referring to pulling some material, e.g. a thick yarn, between the knuckle leathers and the underfelts? Reblitz describes this for upright butts that are indented but still have some life left in them - to alleviate the problem of bumpy let-off.
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1645687 - 03/22/11 07:21 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4954
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Having a run of Piggy-Back tunings. You know, "I am glad you could tune the Church piano. Can I make an appointment to have my home piano tuned?" I am not complaining, it just seems to be a social thing, and that confuses me.
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1645688 - 03/22/11 07:23 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Thanks Jer, that's me plan the the today then... thumb

Mark, yup that's the same thing, but on a grand knuckle...
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1645706 - 03/22/11 08:19 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Yes Mark, bolstering knuckles can give good results provided they are not to hard, brittle or to thin where running yarn through it tears it. I use a flat yarn needle to do this. The flatter, the better for me. smile
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1645739 - 03/22/11 09:39 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Thanks for the heads-up on the flat needle, Jerry. Like most things in life, it makes perfect sense, once you think about it... wink
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1646730 - 03/23/11 06:51 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Pitch raise city these days. Pretty much everything I've done the last 3 days is running 50-125 cents flat.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1646884 - 03/23/11 11:21 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Tuned 4 pianos again today with NO repairs, what do you know!!! My friend, tuned 4 also. Son Jer, brought a couple up to pitch for me and I made my reservations to attend the PTG convention today! At least at the hotel anyway.... Still have to pay home office for 2 people yet... Sigh.....
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1647820 - 03/25/11 01:38 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1253
Loc: Richfield Springs, New York
It's not so much about what I did today, but the advice I am about to give:

1. If bass strings break in your piano, don't throw them away.

2. Repeat #1
_________________________
Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York

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#1648020 - 03/25/11 08:58 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3292
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Tuned a piano in a recording studio and broke the string on B7. I tied it and it broke again just as I was getting it up to pitch, so I had to replace it.

I got a tip from another technician on string replacement. Put the beckett on the opposite side of the pin from where it was originally because the hole is likely to have become rounded and will lead to a slipping beckett and cause slippage. an open beckett and instability.

I also received a third invitation to present the EBVT at a chapter meeting.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1648063 - 03/25/11 10:28 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Had a good tech day with a lot of numbers. Kees and I are dwelling on irregular stretch on regular, rational ETD's. Looks very promising. I'd like Bill's temperament to more readily available to tuners, not only aurally. It's such a nice temperament that it deserves that kind of availability.
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

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#1648253 - 03/26/11 10:12 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3292
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Well, Patrick, I rarely do it aurally. However, the way I use the ETD is quite complex and difficult to explain. I am putting it in writing and will demonstrate it at my upcoming presentations (including the convention). Perhaps from that material, a new, better and more efficient way can be found.

If it is, it can be applied to any and all well temperaments where tempered fifths do not exceed -4 cents.
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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#1648347 - 03/26/11 01:22 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
Removed an action so I could tighten every single one of those royal PITA butt plates that get loose every dry season and cause the hammers to develop extreme sideplay. Hate those things.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1650491 - 03/29/11 07:10 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 2546
Loc: PA
4 tunings, 4 pitch raises, with the most drastic one being 185 cents! Little Henry F Miller spinet. Actually didn't sound bad as far as spinets go once it was done.

Oh and I also.....<insert ominous chord>.....spliced a bass string.
_________________________
DiGiorgi Piano Service (1984-2013)
http://www.digiorgipiano.com

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#1650755 - 03/30/11 04:45 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Loren D]
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 2069
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: Loren D
Oh and I also.....<insert ominous chord>.....spliced a bass string.


Noooo! eek
(Luke, umm, that is, Loren has tasted the the Power of the Dark Side. grin )


Edited by Mark R. (03/30/11 04:50 AM)
Edit Reason: inserted movie link
_________________________
Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#1650819 - 03/30/11 07:58 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
UnrightTooner Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4954
Loc: Bradford County, PA
Had to reschedule a tuning due to my cold. I would not have been able to do a good job and didn't want to spread it to a customer. I felt bad about it because there are some sticking keys. Oh well, they will have to stick for another 2 weeks. Then again, they may free themselves up with the weather. smile
_________________________
Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?

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#1650925 - 03/30/11 10:50 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
lextune Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 48
Loc: Massachusetts
Have a 9pm appointment tonight, and as if that wasn't fun enough, he is having damper problems...

:P
_________________________
Alexander Felides
  • Certified Piano Technician
  • North Bennet Street School Graduate
  • Servicing most of NH & MA
  • Tuning, Regulating, Appraisals, Repairs
  • 603-818-6609
  • thepianodoctor@gmail.com

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#1651092 - 03/30/11 02:52 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: UnrightTooner]
wcctuner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 116
Loc: Princeton, NJ
Spending the afternoon cleaning a piano in a practice room where someone set off a fire extinguisher. That powder is everywhere!!If this every happens again and they catch the student who did it, that student is going to clean that piano. Bet they never try that again!!
_________________________
Dave Forman
Piano Technician, Westminster Choir College of Rider University

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#1656925 - 04/08/11 04:00 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Yesterday worked on a Kimball console from the mid 70's. The last octave in the bass would not play - keys buried into the bed, like they were never leveled, loose screws, but mostly in pretty good shape. Agreed with the owner, removed the action, tightened all the action screws, went ahead and removed all the keys to vacuum out under them (along with the lower section) and found 3 shims loose in the treble end, like the factory had left some extra ones... but looking at the bass section, it had no shims at all. Loosened the balance rail screw, slipped the shims under it and the keys where great. It looks like the factory just installed the BR bushings and then shimmed under it to level the keys... no punchings at all. Removed the lost motion and did a PR. Was about 50c low, set it about 25c below 440 to see if the pins would hold... a pretty good day for me...haha
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1657118 - 04/09/11 01:53 AM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21821
Loc: Oakland
A Steinway D and a Yamaha CFIIIs. Nice work if you can get it!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1657672 - 04/10/11 12:42 PM Re: So, what did you do today? [Re: Sam Casey]
Bill Bremmer RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 3292
Loc: Madison, WI USA
Tuned a Shigeru Kawai for a recital. I wanted to use my Ultra Mild Well Temnperament, so I used the SAT IV FAC program. Both A4 and C6 had false beats. The piano has a humidity control system but it was completely dry with the red light blinking. The pitch was down 8-12 cents overall. I noted that the thin cord provided by the manufacturer was dangling from the unit, had been run over by the heavy brass casters, damaged and poorly repaired and wrapped with black electrical tape. The piano had a quilt cover so nobody can see the system lights unless they lift the cover and look. Even though the piano is always covered when not in use, it was dusty inside and I blew the whole thing out with the vacuum cleaner but did not charge extra for that.

The temperament I found was blatant Reverse Well. Not just a hint of Reverse Well but very and obviously uneven thirds, inverted contiguous thirds, some fifths pure, others wobbling and everything completely backwards from a true Well Temperament. C Major was, as I often find it, the very worst sounding chord of any of the 12 Major keys. The fifth was nearly pure but the Major third was 24 cents wide.

If it can happen, it will. In just one piano service, I witnessed several items that I see frequently and have discussed on here many times:


  • Expensive, high quality new grand pianos with false beats.

  • Humidity control systems in public places which are allowed to run completely dry.

  • Pitch raise required for a concert tuning on a piano that is tuned several times a year.

  • Flimsy power cord for the humidity control system dangling and damaged by casters or people moving the piano without regard to it being plugged in.

  • Nobody else ever cleans the piano but I do and usually never even charge for it.

  • Piano previously tuned (only three weeks ago) by an aural tuner who uses a 4ths & 5ths sequence, condemns the use of non-equal temperaments but offers Reverse Well as his own version of ET. Gets mad when you tell him it is not ET but Reverse Well instead and says he has never heard of "Reverse Well".
_________________________
Bill Bremmer RPT
Madison WI USA
www.billbremmer.com

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