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#2014383 - 01/14/13 11:47 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Greener
Chopin Nocturne in E flat, Op. 9 No. 2
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

M1-4
Four one measure phrases. I'll start by drawing your attention to the phrase marks in the LH of M1 and similar. After the bass note the following two chords are played in a legato sweep,...

The legato (smooth even style without a break *) is indicated by the slur above these chords? It is interesting thus, that these markings are only on this measure. I would have thought they would continue throughout the composition. I certainly cannot decipher much difference in LH treatment from M1, to M2 for example.

I think it's implicit that the left hand continues in the same style, with slurs, even though they're not written out. I'm looking at this score, labelled First Edition at IMSLP.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The turn in M2 is easy to overdo. Don't snatch at it but try to spread the notes evenly without slowing down in LH.

The notes of the turn are C,D,C,B,C jump ... correct? I can see it would be easy to do a double (mini trill) on the first C,D. Is this what you mean by over doing?

Turns start on the note above. Also, remember the key signature: it's Bb, not B. So the turn is D C Bb C.
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#2014384 - 01/14/13 11:51 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: PianoStudent88]
Andy Platt Offline
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Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88

Turns start on the note above. Also, remember the key signature: it's Bb, not B. So the turn is D C Bb C.

I'm going to have to check the position of the turn in the Henle edition I have - in others I remember the turn is immediately after the C so it would start on the C.

As for the key signature - now we get into one of those differences between the scores. Some versions have marked the score with the "chromatic turn" marking to make it clear that it is C#,C,B,C.

My Henle edition doesn't have it marked but that's what I've heard played and I think there's some commentary in the Henle about it too.


Edited by Andy Platt (01/14/13 11:54 AM)
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#2014395 - 01/14/13 12:11 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Chopin Nocturne in E flat, Op. 9 No. 2

Originally Posted By: Greener
It is interesting thus, that these markings are only on this measure. I would have thought they would continue throughout the composition.
I certainly cannot decipher much difference in LH treatment from M1, to M2 for example.
I would interpret Chopin's intention as continuing. It's quite important in M25 and M29, for example.

This is not the waltz style of um-ching-ching but a smoother dum da-di, dum da-di etc.

Originally Posted By: Greener
The notes of the turn are C,D,C,B,C jump ... correct? I can see it would be easy to do a double (mini trill) on the first C,D. Is this what you mean by over doing?
Correct if you intend Db not D natural but no, I mean playing it loud or like an express train. It's a cantilena. I play it no faster than I would sing the whole second phrase to something like 'ToDAY is gonna be the DAY of ALL days'.

Originally Posted By: Greener
At some point, I will also be interested to also look at the chords for this. While I am learning this type of a piece (LH stride,) it helps me a lot if the chord my LH is jumping to is written as a chord (Abdim7) vs. just the dots on the ledger lines.
Excellent, 'cause I won't be doing that and yes, the exercise should strengthen your reading.

How are you tackling this, Andy? Are you taking it one section at a time either sequentially or difficult bits first, working on the whole thing each day or something else? Have you broken it into sections? Has your teacher passed on any relevant gems?

My first approach to this would be to play the whole thing through, HS, once or twice a week identifying trouble spots. I'd work a little each day on those difficulties then play through M1-8, HS & HT, with particular attention on M1-4 where I'll be working first, then settle down to work on M1-4 one phrase at a time HS and HT.

The difficulties.
M2. The turn, if it's still a problem. Certainly played slowly it isn't so play it slowly and wait for it to feel natural.

M7/M15/M23. The trill; I accelerate through this rather than keep a steady speed. Chopin's trills start on the principal note courtesy of Johann Nepomuk Hummel and his 1825 treatise, Complete Theoretical and Practical Course. Chopin had a very high regard for Hummel - as did most people at the time.

M12/M20. Just a slow steady play through those chords, HS, to get them familiar by the time I start work on M8-12.

M16. The fioritura isn't difficult, HS, but you might want to familiarise yourself with it.

M24. This one is only difficult if you don't do much Bach. You might try some scale work using just 3-4-5 if you're not used to this.

M26. The turn here is difficult if you can't make the octave with 2 and 5. I use 2-3-2-1-2-5, which is easy but you may need to do 1-4-3-2-1-5, as M2, but this is more awkward with the thumb on a black key and will require more practise. Just a couple of slow reps each day should be enough by the time you get to this section.

M30-31. I use another upper mordent here for the trill as in M5 and M13. What does your teacher recommend, Andy? In my copy the F is before the ottava and the E after it making it look like a difficult leap when reading quickly. You might pencil in the F an octave lower as a reminder or you can just learn it. The octaves aren't difficult if you're looking but your left hand is also engaged in leaps so this really has to be played blindfold. Remember the old adage, look before you leap, and take a healthy glance at the target before you make the leaps. The last two leaps from Eb to F and F to C are the only tricky ones. The G to D in the second beat isn't much and the Eb to Eb is a simple interchange of thumb on fifth finger - that's putting the thumb where the fifth finger is/was, don't contract the hand here. If you memorise this you'll find that on looking down you have quite enough time to see all you need to see and it isn't really that difficult as when you're following the score.

M32. A slow run through this trill each day will make it easy by the time you get to this section. I put the accent on the B (Cb) not the C natural and it makes counting easier if you're going to count the repetitions. Rubinstein puts the weight on the C.

M18. HT. The 4 vs 3 I covered in my earlier post.

M29. HT. This is 8 vs 3 and I missed it last time. This is one of those places, so typical of Chopin, where an exact mathematical division doesn't work so well as it loses the careful phrasing, a four note group then a three note group. This is best learnt HS then just put the hands together at tempo.

Just a couple of slow plays through these bits each day should prepare them quite nicely by the time you get to the relevant sections.

More on M1-4.
I would take each of these four measures individually for the first couple of days. There's no point putting the brain in overflow before it can chunk the information. After sufficient repetitons I might finish each with a slow play through the four bars as one unit from the score as long as I was confident of accuracy.

I play the turn in M2 slower than the turn in the first episode of Für Elise. Is the fingering marked in Henle? I play 1-4-3-2-1-5.

The third phrase has a little slur between the G and D. It's very subtle. This line is akin to the difference between 'And IF you believe me' and the more correct 'And IF you-ou leave me'.

Watch the slurs in M4. This isn't one line as in 'you know that it is only make believe' but three as in 'come back! You know you want to. Say you do.' Please excuse the lyrics. smile It the point that's important.
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#2014402 - 01/14/13 12:13 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
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[cross-posted. This was in reply to Andy Platt's post.]

Oh interesting. In this score ("Richard Johnson edition") the turn is after the C, and marked with a flat above and a natural sign below, meaning that it's as you say, C then turn (in this score the chromatic version): Db-C-B-C. AIUI in this case there are so many variants in Chopin scores that a good critical edition such as your Henle is very helpful and the "first edition" that I first linked to is not necessarily at all the best source.

In the case of a turn between notes, is the first C, the original note, held a little longer than the notes of the turn? Or are all the notes played even, as a quintuplet?

Back to the LH slur marks: Looking more closely, I see that some measures have slur marks in the LH, and some measures don't. But it's not only the first measure that has the LH slur marks. So that makes me wonder if the LH slur marks, and lack of slur marks, are in fact to be closely observed. Since the sound is all tied together by the pedal though, the difference is a subtle one, having more to do with touch and volume than with actual separation of the notes as they sound.

Does your Henle edition suggest anything on this? IIRC Henle doesn't usually have performance notes, just source notes. So maybe a good study edition of this Nocturne would also be useful, if it addresses this point.


Edited by PianoStudent88 (01/14/13 12:14 PM)
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#2014403 - 01/14/13 12:14 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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The turn is between the notes with a flat above and a natural below, so C-Db-C-B-C-C'.

ETA: Oh, my word. Here we go with the cross-posting again!



Edited by zrtf90 (01/14/13 12:15 PM)
Edit Reason: Guess
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#2014408 - 01/14/13 12:21 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
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The first edition that I first linked to has the turn directly above the C, and no chromatic alterations marked. Hence my original answer. And my acknowledgement of the value of a good critical edition!

I'll check the score that Greener posted if I post further answers, since clearly this piece is built on subtleties, and there are subtle differences in the editions...

(Can I get this in quick enough to avoid another cross-posting? smile ).
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#2014413 - 01/14/13 12:29 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Andy Platt Offline
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Originally Posted By: zrtf90
How are you tackling this, Andy? Are you taking it one section at a time either sequentially or difficult bits first, working on the whole thing each day or something else? Have you broken it into sections? Has your teacher passed on any relevant gems?

For the moment I'm breaking it into four measure chunks, starting from the beginning. The second four measures essentially repeat the first with slight changes of which octave the bass notes are in and considerable embellishment of the theme in the right hand.

The plan is to get those 8 reasonably solid, then put that aside and tackle the second theme in measures 9-12. After that we'll see. As I said, this will be a relatively long term project for me.

Whether my teacher has any gems remains to be seen because I haven't had a lesson with her since starting it.
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#2014443 - 01/14/13 01:11 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Andy Platt]
Greener Offline

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Ah, yes indeed, I see the b and natural marked on the turn now. Good, thing I asked about this. I was playing it wrong, but it sounded just fine and I surely would have breezed over this mistake as I became more proficient with this section. The ending double strike of the C is new to me ... but totally cool cool with that.

Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Originally Posted By: zrtf90
How are you tackling this, Andy?

For the moment I'm breaking it into four measure chunks, starting from the beginning
...
The plan is to get those 8 reasonably solid, then put that aside and tackle the second theme in measures 9-12. After that we'll see
...
this will be a relatively long term project for me.


me too ... long term ... and happy to follow your lead on plan of attack, Andy.

I hadn't thought about trying to play it through in its entirety, HS, but will give it a go.

For chords, I'll release these as we go (if that's OK) as I/we begin to tackle it HT. So, may be some time in coming. But will start with up to M4 today, which is where I am up to with HT.

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#2014453 - 01/14/13 01:26 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greener
Ah, yes indeed, I see the b and natural marked on the turn now. Good, thing I asked about this. I was playing it wrong, but it sounded just fine and I surely would have breezed over this mistake as I became more proficient with this section. The ending double strike of the C is new to me ... but totally cool cool with that.

Double strike? It's C-Db-C-B-C then the C' an octave higher, yes?

The HS run through once or twice a week is because any measures that aren't playable HS will show up mechanical difficulties that you can pre-empt by addressing them briefly at the start or end of your normal practise session.

When you've got both hands down you can add, or replace with, a slow run through HT once or twice a week. This has the benefit of giving you an overview of the piece as a whole and an indication of what problems might lie ahead.

If you're going to be memorising the piece this will prepare you memory.
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#2014459 - 01/14/13 01:41 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
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My mother pays me the lovely compliment of asking me to play for her when she goes to bed (if I'm not already practicing). And if I stop before she falls asleep she'll say "no, please continue!"

I played the Nocturne for her, slowly, and only playing the first note of each LH triplet along with the RH melody. And she said it was beautiful. So Chopin's great beautiful skill as a composer shines through even the most inexpert rendition.

The greats can be like this, I have found. It reminds me of Martha Graham's choreography. I've seen parts of Appalachian Spring danced by a dance school which was largely forgettable in their other pieces, but despite their middling level of skill, the Martha Graham choreography shone through and made that section of the recital beautiful.

I've discovered, in my Faber & Faber Piano Adventures level 4 I think, a tiny 2-page arrangement of the theme from Tschaikovsky's First Piano Concerto. And although it's clearly just the merest simplified morsel, hearing that beautiful melody, and those crashing chords, come out of my piano is thrilling in the extreme. I wonder if it would be too ridiculous to buy the full concerto score (or at least the piano part, with piano reduction for the orchestra), just to find out what the original is like. On the other hand, it might make me dissatisfied with my simplified morsel, and I would hate to lose the grand feeling that playing it gives me!
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#2014488 - 01/14/13 02:40 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Originally Posted By: zrtf90
[/quote]
Double strike? It's C-Db-C-B-C then the C' an octave higher, yes?

OK, no double strike. I thought by "C-Db-C-B-C-C" you meant all part of the turn before the jump up to C. But, understand now ... and will play as such.

It's a good thing I can use all 12 beats to separate the chords, or this would be a tricky business. Actually, it still is tricky and I'm not sure you are going to be so keen on some of my choices. But here goes;

M1
1 - Eb
2 - "
3 - "
4 - "
5 - Abdim
6 - "
7 - Eb
8 - "
9 - "
10 - (add maj7 bass)
11 - Eb
12 - "

M2
1 - C
2 - "
3 - C7
4 - C
5 - "
6 - C7
7 - Bbm
8 - "
9 - Bbdim
10 - F
11 - Fm
12 - "

M3
1 - Bb
2 - "
3 - Bb7
4 - G/B
5 - G
6 - G7/D
7 - Cm
8 - "
9 - "
10 - Adim7
11 - "
12 - "

M4
1 - Bb
2 - Bb(add 11)
3 - Bb11
4 - "
5 - "
6 - "
7 - "
8 - "
9 - Eb
10 - "
11 - "
12 - "

I would just like to test the waters with this, as it will be fairly heavy sledding the way I am going about it so far. I'm not putting much weight on the melody. And, will be happy not to mention all (or any) / notations.



Edited by Greener (01/14/13 06:51 PM)
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#2014518 - 01/14/13 03:52 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9 No, 2

M2 - 7 Bbm
M2 - 9 Eb7

M3 - 3 Bb7
M3 - 10 A dim 7 - yes: rootless F7 going to Bb

In M4 the added 11 is in melody so not helping lh. I'd have just gone for Bb. All the C's are unaccented.

Ignore the RH completely if this is to help your lh. The /root notation might only help on the accented notes.
Look what function the chords have on what follows.

Chopin's harmony is very imaginative in this piece. You will need to keep your wits about you. As you're only going to do this once, i.e. not every time you play it, it's worth writing down every lh note being considered before you name the chord. Some are quite skeletal.

As a preliminary exercise and as good reference material, write out the Eb scale and its seven fundamental chords. You might do the same for neighbouring keys, Ab and Bb, while you're about it and number each step.

(layout doesn't work here)
Eb F G Ab Bb C D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Eb G Bb = Eb maj
F Ab C = F min
etc.
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#2014559 - 01/14/13 05:28 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9 No, 2

Of the corrections, the only one I don't get is this one.
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

M2 - 9 Eb7

I just see three notes Bb,Db,E natural. So if Eb7 then wouldn't it be rootless Eb7-9?
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

In M4 the added 11 is in melody so not helping lh. I'd have just gone for Bb. All the C's are unaccented.

Yes, I'm totally happy with just Bb, but isn't the 11th the Eb on the 2nd and 3rd beats of LH?

Also, I'm not clear of what you mean by accented or not accented. I've been meaning to ask about this as you have mentioned accent notes before, and I'm definitely missing the boat entirely on accented notes.



Edited by Greener (01/14/13 05:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Bb
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#2014583 - 01/14/13 06:29 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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In M2 I was correcting your B dim to Bb dim. I don't know where I got Eb7 from. It's not in my notes.

M4 I was thrown by your (add 11) and assumed you were adding in a melody note. My mistake. It is Bb11.

Accented notes are the first of each of the four groups of quavers; strong, weak, medium, weak. The second two quavers in each group and any other smaller note in RH are unaccented.

There are thus at least four dynamic levels in each bar; the first beat, the third beat, the second and fourth beats, then all other notes. These accents are implicit (implied by the time sig.).

Some notes carry an accent mark explicitly, e.g. the Db, F and A in M6, RH.

M4 has only three accented notes in RH, Bb, Bb' and Eb.
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#2014828 - 01/15/13 08:24 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Andy Platt Offline
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So the Henle edition is no help with the slurs over the chords in the left hand. I do notice (apologies if this was already discussed, I might have skipped over it) that what we have is either:

a) Staccato bass note followed by slurred chords.
b) No slurred chords

But all with pedal.


If pianists are playing those two phrasing motifs differently in performances I've heard, I can't hear it.
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#2014848 - 01/15/13 09:14 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9 No, 2

The chords are definitely legato. They are only slurred where the bass is marked staccato. They are not always marked staccato where they are within reach of the chords. The articulations are, along with the pedal markings covered by either the "simile" or the "come sopra" used by varying publishers.

There are measures, such as M11 and M21, where the need for legato is less and others where it is absolute e.g. M24 and M29.
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#2014851 - 01/15/13 09:39 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Online   content
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I am way, way behind. 92 pages here. I don't even know how many pieces I've missed, along with possibly new information. When we're discussing a new simpler analysis thread, this comes to mind. The size of this thread is daunting.

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#2014861 - 01/15/13 10:11 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Yes, but it is not a marathon where you need to catch up. More like a relay where you can continue on from where we are.

When we started the Moonlight Sonata Analysis last August, we followed with the Chopin Prelude no 1., then binary discussion I believe. Each time a new thread was started.

By having new threads each time, perhaps it is easier (and perhaps more comfortable) for people to join in the discussion. But, much of the theory discussed, pertains to more than just the work being analyzed. So, from that stand point it is good to have it all in a single repository (thread.)

I'm not sure what the answer is. But no one should feel shy to ask about something that may have been asked before. If it has been asked, and if I recall it, I will look it up. But all the coaches on this thread (and of course you included KS) have been very patient. I'm sure I have asked the same question (albeit perhaps in a different way) more then once. I've never been told ... "hey Greener we talked about that 5 pages ago" laugh
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#2014866 - 01/15/13 10:43 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Think how much harder it might have been to catch up if we'd been sprawled over myriad different threads all over the forum.

What we've done to date:

Sept 7 Clementi Sonatina Op. 36, No. 1
Sept 8 Haydn Hob xvi/8 & sonata form
sept 14 Clementi sonatina No. 2
Sept 20 Clementi sonatina no. 3
Sept 24 Clementi sonatina no. 4
Oct 1 Clementi Sonatina No. 5
Oct 3 Eb aug (maj 7), Roman numerals, minor keys, circle of fifths
Oct 11 Back to sonatinas 4 & 5 and how we headline a post with the piece name
Oct 17 What's a cadence
Oct 18 Clementi Sonatina No. 6
Nov 2 Mendelssohn Op. 102/6
Nov 7 Schubert Moment Musical Op. 94 No. 6
Nov 9 Da capo form
Dec 5 Haydn Sonata Hob xvi/50 Allegro
Dec 18 Mendelssohn Op. 102/1 & Op. 30/3
Dec 28 Haydn Sonata Hob xvi/50 Allegro - recapitulation
2013
Jan 4 Haydn Sonata Hob xvi/50 Adagio
Jan 11 Chopin Nocturne in Eb Op. 9/2

The dates should make finding things easier however you arrange your page numbers.

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#2015516 - 01/16/13 02:26 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1180
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Accented notes are the first of each of the four groups of quavers; strong, weak, medium, weak. The second two quavers in each group and any other smaller note in RH are unaccented.

There are thus at least four dynamic levels in each bar; the first beat, the third beat, the second and fourth beats, then all other notes. These accents are implicit (implied by the time sig.).

Some notes carry an accent mark explicitly, e.g. the Db, F and A in M6, RH.


Ah, so that's what those thingies are. This is good to know, and one I had no idea about. Actually achieving four dynamic levels in each bar will be a stretch. But, knowing about this and striving for it, can only be a good thing.

Still having a hard time comprehending (IE. not clear on this part) the beats you are mentioning to exemplify these dynamics, however.

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#2015538 - 01/16/13 03:02 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
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Can you guys keep the noise down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wink

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#2015557 - 01/16/13 03:23 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Wayne, were any of those notes helpful for Op. 85/2?
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#2015567 - 01/16/13 03:30 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greener
Still having a hard time comprehending (IE. not clear on this part) the beats you are mentioning to exemplify these dynamics, however.

Are you aware in that in 2/2 time, the are two beats in each bar and the first one is accented (louder) than the other? In 3/4 time the first crotchet carries the main accent and the other two are weak. In 4/4 time the first beat carries the strong accent, the third a medium accent and the second and fourth have weak accents. All notes occuring between beats, i.e the second of quaver pairs, the last three of groups of four semi's etc, are unaccented.

This piece is in 12/8 time but the accents are the same as for 4/4 time.
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#2015573 - 01/16/13 03:40 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
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Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Wayne, were any of those notes helpful for Op. 85/2?



I get confused by your measure numbering, if you could number it on the score for me and send it me, then that would be a great help smile I'd then beable to loop the sections you suggested, I understood the M1-M4 one, and did that.

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#2015578 - 01/16/13 03:45 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
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#2015618 - 01/16/13 04:33 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Here you go Wayne ...

Mendelssohn OP 85 No. 2 - Numbered

Yes, will try to keep the racket down. Just in case though, I have already priced out Heavy Duty ear muffs. As it turns out I can get a discount if I buy in bulk, so just advise if you want in.

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#2015628 - 01/16/13 04:47 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
wayne33yrs Offline
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thank you Greener smile

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#2015640 - 01/16/13 05:11 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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You're Welcome
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#2015662 - 01/16/13 05:40 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Mendelssohn, 85/2

The Ditson Edition gives Part I, Antedcedent phrase beginning on the up-beat before bar 1. It extends to midway through bar 4. There begins the Consequent phrase for which there's an extension beginning halfway through M8. Part 1 ends midawy through M10.


Keep practising M1-4, Part I, Antecedent phrase, bringing out the melody. In your video, Wayne, you're going about twice the speed I would but you're not bringing out the melody. All your notes have about the same volume.

This piece is in cut time, 2/2, so I would set your metronome for 4/4, at 66-72 bpm and play the quavers on each tick. Play just the melody, on its own, at about forte using fingers 4 & 5. Give the dotted crotchets just a little more emphasis than the quavers.

When the notes are singing add the LH at about mF. When the two hands are working and the melody is dominating add the two harmony notes at about Piano.

You've to carry a legato line in fingers 4 & 5 and turn 5 under. You need to learn this slowly with the right dynamics. Once the correct notes, dynamics and articulation are in your fingers and your memory you'll start shifting to automatic mode and you can let the speed rise, which it will.

When this is easy with the melody rising above the accompaniment you can limit yourself to a just two or three reps a day while you start on the Consequent phrase. Start without the extension and add it on when you're comfortable with this stretch. You should keep these two phrases separate until you've doubled the speed - but don't try to double your speed. Wait for it to start coming up naturally as you transition from thinking about the notes to playing them automatically.

Spend about a fortnight on Part I alone then restrict it to a couple of slow plays each day while you work on Part II.

Tackle Part II the same way; just the melody first, then add the bass, then the accompaniment. Again, keep the Antecdent phrase and Consequent phrases separate until well established and then add the repeat of the Consequent phrase.

Spend two or three weeks on Part II. This is the hardest part of the piece. The rest either repeats this or changes a few of the chords a little (and I doubt anyone would notice if you repeated them exactly the same for the recital).

Part III is the Antecedent phrase, Consequent phrase, Sequential repeat of the Consequent phrase, Repeat of preceeding phrase and the four bars of evaded cadence. You shouldn't need two full weeks on this as much of it is hardly different from the forst two parts.

The last four bars are the coda and can be tackled separately. They shouldn't need a week.

This should see you midway through March playing the three parts separately. You might be around 72 bpm for crotchets by this time and that's a perfectly respectable tempo for this piece. Keep the parts separate while your tempo rises and join the parts about one week before you start recording, whichever is sooner. If you keep each phrase separate your tempo will rise quicker.

_______________________________________

My earlier notes:

Keep practising the Antecdent phrase, M1-4, bringing out the melody, now that you have it. The speed at which you do this is completely unimportant. Once you have it the speed will come faster than you might expect. But it's important that you wait for it to come from frequent repetitions at a manageable speed and not trying to force it.

Bear in mind throughout that this is a song without words - and therefore it is meaningless with the melody line. Practise playing those two accompanying notes whisper quiet while you "shape" the phrase. This is 2/2 so the first note takes the strong accent, the fifth note of the bar takes a weak accent. The other three notes in each half measure are without accent but the melody, and bass, are louder than the two harmony notes.

It would be rather basic to make each melody note louder the higher it is on the staff - but it would still work. This can continue up through each climax except the actual climax notes marked with an accent or sF (the first notes in M33 (the sequential repeat of the Consequent phrase in Part III), M34, M37 (the repeat of the preceeding phrase in Part III) and, in the bass, M38 and 39. The second climax at M37 is part of the climbdown for me, so slightly less than M33.

Leave M5-8 (Part I, Consequent phrase) until M1-4 is flowing. Then do these three sections, each in isolation M1-4, M5-8, M8-10 (Part I, Consequent Phrase, Extension) until they're easy at a steady tempo, around 44-48 bpm (two beats per bar) then join them together.

M10-22 (Part II) I would practise on different days because of the change in the accompaniment to descending notes instead of rising. Stick with M10-14 (Part II, Antecedent phrase) as one unit for a few repetitions. Include the Upper B in RH and the lower D# in LH of M14.

Start with those two notes for the next section, M14 to the first beat of M17.

Keep M17-18 (the cadence evaded and the chords in the measure before it) isolated until it's well absorbed, fluent and memorised (if you memorise your pieces).

Only when these three parts are flowing would I learn M18-22 (repeat of Consequent phrase) and join all four parts together, M10-22 (part II).

M26-34 (Part III, Consequent phrase and repeat of it) will be easy once you've got those first two sections up to half tempo. Likewise the finish, M34-41 (cadence evaded before the coda).

If you've got M1-22 almost memorised already you're not going to have problem with this, Wayne, by the time the recital comes. M14-18/M30-34 is about as hard as this piece gets.

I see you have measure numbers now, too!
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Richard

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#2015666 - 01/16/13 05:42 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2337
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: Greener
Here you go Wayne ...

Mendelssohn OP 85 No. 2 - Numbered

Yes, will try to keep the racket down. Just in case though, I have already priced out Heavy Duty ear muffs. As it turns out I can get a discount if I buy in bulk, so just advise if you want in.


I might like in on those ear muffs, Jeff. There's a guy in a Toronto condo keeps me awake all night... smile
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Richard

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