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Topic Options
#1971748 - 10/11/12 10:06 AM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 445
It would be nice not to have those behringer trannys in the way!

Has anyone tried one of those extension cords that you can flip your two pronged plug in?

Local off

What midi volume on your note values are you achieving?

I enjoy trouble shooting but will stop if asked.

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#1971844 - 10/11/12 02:29 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
As slow traveler said , the Aux audio input signal path may not be so great. What I try to figure out is if that is really the case or that it is a flaw on only some units, or still an error in the way things are connected. When I connect a high end audio source (no a laptop or similar), you don't need the ground loop killers and can connect the cable directly to the audio in. No hum or other externally caused sounds, by still no clear audio quality. I'm afraid I have made a mistake in the idea that the audio ins would be prerfect to use my SW instruments alongside the build in sounds. Yes, I do have good monitor speakers and a mixer, but wanted a DP with build-in amp and speakers for the living room, making it a compact and simple elegant setup. Otherwise I could have choosen a model without build in audio signal paths. Bummer ;-((

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#1971903 - 10/11/12 03:59 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: JFP]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 445
Originally Posted By: JFP
When I connect a high end audio source....directly to the audio in.


I believe you. I've owned a couple Privias and currently a ES6.
I think my Kawai has that. I've never tried it.

Originally Posted By: JFP

a DP with build-in amp and speakers for the living room, making it a compact and simple elegant setup.


With your scenario just described, turn your piano's master volume almost all the way down. Turn your music sources master volume out, as far up as you can until it distorts and then back down a little. That defines your benchmark. If your music player has a built in eq, try it. At this point your external source should be controllable by the master volume of your dp and be able to be played quite loud out of your DP's speakers..
I believe the audio ins on these pianos might be really hot, -10db -
It sounds like you've run the gamut on this and have probably done all this a million times already.
I will try my ES6, then I will know how you all really feel!

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#1972013 - 10/11/12 07:18 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: JFP]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 198
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
I think it must be really hard to produce high-quality built-in audio systems under the cost targets and design constraints faced by DP manufacturers.

Consider that the USD 1000/pair cost of my own Focal CMS40 powered near-field monitors (good but by no means the most expensive you can buy) is comparable with the total cost of some respectable slab DPs with built-in audio.

Consider, also, that the speakers in a DP are often pointed at your knees or straight up in the air, limited in size and weight, and mounted in lightweight plastic or chipboard cabinets with weird resonances.

The built-in audio systems of our favorite DPs sound quite good nevertheless, because the designers work on optimizing system performance as a whole. The "secret sauce" is EQ, reverb, stereo expansion, and other processing techniques applied to the digital audio streams before conversion to analog.

This processing is typically not available to AUX inputs, at least in the current generation of DPs. Even if it were, which would require more hardware and software to implement, I'm not sure what the results would sound like, or what fraction of the total customer base would be willing to pay for such features.

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#1972036 - 10/11/12 08:33 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3786
Loc: North Carolina
Granted that they won't put $1000 speakers into a $1000 piano. But my $100 speakers sound better than the ones in the piano.

And, yes, the down-pointing arrangement of the speakers is suboptimal.

But I'd hardly say that "the built-in audio systems of our favorite DPs sound quite good".

I'd say "the built-in audio systems of our favorite DPs sound quite like crap".

If there's anything good to say about them, it's that "they sound better than a $10 Walgreen's clock radio".

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#1972042 - 10/11/12 08:50 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3480
Loc: Pennsylvania
I don't know that it's a question of blame. Perhaps it's not the fault of the manufacturers that digital piano speakers do not really satisfy. But from our point of view as customers it doesn't matter whose fault it is. If we want the best speaker setup, we simply do it ourselves. Just like if we want the best tone generation, we don't rely on onboard sounds.

By the way, although I say "simply" above, I do recognize the difficulty of finding an amp/speaker/positioning/sound-control situation that really satisfies. It's actually kind of a pain. But you can do better than typical DP speakers with a simple setup.


Edited by gvfarns (10/11/12 08:51 PM)

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#1972172 - 10/12/12 03:44 AM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
To put the record straight; I'm not talking about the speaker quality here , or the lack of correction EQ for the speakers on the audio input. The signal is simply not transparent / clear on the inputs , when listening on headphone. Even without AB comparing, the sound is touched by some stress/ compression, more narrow in depth and lacks the quality of the source to the extend that it is no fun listening to music or playing a Sw instrument through it. Cabling and leveling are checked.

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#1972174 - 10/12/12 03:52 AM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: MacMacMac]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2320
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
.
And, yes, the down-pointing arrangement of the speakers is suboptimal.

I don't think the speakers in the OP's DP, an NU1, point down.

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#1972254 - 10/12/12 10:13 AM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 445
I hope I don't expose a shortcoming of my own that I am not currently aware of.

My ES6's speakers sound like a really nice sounding piano while playing the internal sounds. IMHO, the P155 and Privia's internals do not, that's one of the reasons I've kept the Kawai. I do set the tone to 1 level below normal and set the keyboard to heavy, So the tone is warm.
It's just a really nice piano to listen to.

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#1972281 - 10/12/12 12:05 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: spanishbuddha]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 270
Loc: Europe - France
Hello
I wanted to add that I don't think the internal speaker of the NU1 are bad quality
there are indeed really good with internal sound (I previously owned several others DPs before the NU1, I can say it is by far the best sound system)
But, when using Audio In, the sound is crappy and the key velocity is completely unnatural...
So, even If I use Monitors, that will not solve the key velocity problem

=> My conclusion is that virtual pianos are far to be a decent alternative to embedded piano sound...(I am so disappointed to say that)
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#1972407 - 10/12/12 06:04 PM Re: Question about the Audio input on DP [Re: enzo.sandrolini]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
enzo.sandrolin, I expect the NU1's internal piano sound is EQ'd digitally to optimise the instrument's samples for the amplifier/speaker system.

However, the audio input probably bypasses this EQ-ing, and connects directly to the amplifier, resulting in less than optimal sound from the software piano.

I believe this was also the case with your CA93.

One solution to this is to use the software piano's EQ controls to boost or attenuate frequencies for the NU1's amplifier/speaker system.

As for key velocity, again, it should be possible to adjust the touch curve both on the NU1 and/or the software piano to improve the natural weighting of the keybed.

In my opinion, using a digital piano such as the NU1 or CA93 as a controller (and amplifier/speaker system) is actually quite a good idea. However, unlike hardware digital pianos, may require a little experimentation in order to achieve the best results.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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