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#1971342 - 10/10/12 02:06 PM Best EP.
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Well, after much frustration with the Kronos, I sold it along with the V synth and Virus. I kept my Shigeru and Jupiter and went a little OCD buying guitar gear. In any case, a great EP is what I really want. The Kronos had it, but the rest of it was too much crap for me.

I am considering a SV1 73 just for the EPs, but I'm a bit reluctant to go down the Korg road again. Nords could be an option. I wish I never sold the CP1, but I'm not willing to plunk down another $4K just for its action and EPs.

Thoughts from EP guys out there? Thanks in advance. Also open to vintage gear.


And yes, after 30+ years of playing piano, I have taken up guitar and am really digging it. Yes, it is a bit frustrating not being able to articulate musical ideas into sounds, but that will come with time and practice.


Edited by Hideki Matsui (10/10/12 02:07 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971348 - 10/10/12 02:19 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Would the CP5 do enough for you, EP-wise?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1971357 - 10/10/12 02:31 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: EssBrace]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Having spent some time with the CP5 after owning the CP1, I think I wouldn't be happy with the CP5. It's great and versatile, but it would always make me want my CP1.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971359 - 10/10/12 02:39 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 788
Try out the Nord Piano, or even the Nord Electro 4HP if you can do with 73 keys. They are a very different kind of instrument than the Yamaha CP1/CP5, but have rather nice (mono) EP sounds, and there is even some hope that Clavia will add further, more complex EP sounds down the road.

Nothing like a good vintage Rhodes with all its quirks, though.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#1971360 - 10/10/12 02:39 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
In addition to the SV-1, you may want to consider the Krome. There's at least as much ROM dedicated to the EPs in the Krome as in the SV, and you get a Kronos-type AP as well. I think the Rhodes samples in the Krome are much more detailed than in the Nords.

I haven't had enough time to really explore the Krome yet, but I find the 73-note version has an action that works OK with EPs and has the advantage, by going down to C1, of giving a little more for the left hand to work with. The Rhodes patches sound pretty authentic to me, but I'm not over the moon about the Wurlis - need to spend some time tweaking those.

Downsides to the Krome are the typical workstation, menu-driven layout (although you can assign effects etc. to the controls), the fact that some damper pedals (notably Roland half-pedals) don't play nicely with it, and the somewhat abrupt note cut-off if you exceed the available polyphony (about 30 notes in reality).

Of my other boards, the Kawai MP6 has one really good Rhodes patch, as does the Numa Piano.

I am hoping that Nord will release updated and larger EP samples soon, so that the new Electro 4D can compete with the newer boards from other manufacturers.

Also, if you liked the CP1 but don't want to invest another 4k, what about the CP5 & 50? EDIT: sorry missed your later post where you dismissed the other CPs.


Edited by voxpops (10/10/12 02:42 PM)
_________________________
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#1971364 - 10/10/12 02:40 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: maurus]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: maurus
Try out the Nord Piano, or even the Nord Electro 4HP if you can do with 73 keys. They are a very different kind of instrument than the Yamaha CP1/CP5, but have rather nice EP sounds, and there is even some hope that Clavia will add further, more complex EP sounds down the road.

Nothing like a good vintage Rhodes with all its quirks, though.


I actually prefer 73 keys. I've never been a Nord guy but I know they sound great on stage. I've seen and heard them many times. Just never really spent time with one outside of the store.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971366 - 10/10/12 02:42 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: voxpops]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: voxpops
In addition to the SV-1, you may want to consider the Krome. There's at least as much ROM dedicated to the EPs in the Krome as in the SV, and you get a Kronos-type AP as well. I think the Rhodes samples in the Krome are much more detailed than in the Nords.

I haven't had enough time to really explore the Krome yet, but I find the 73-note version has an action that works OK with EPs and has the advantage, by going down to C1, of giving a little more for the left hand to work with. The Rhodes patches sound pretty authentic to me, but I'm not over the moon about the Wurlis - need to spend some time tweaking those.

Downsides to the Krome are the typical workstation, menu-driven layout (although you can assign effects etc. to the controls), the fact that some damper pedals (notably Roland half-pedals) don't play nicely with it, and the somewhat abrupt note cut-off if you exceed the available polyphony (about 30 notes in reality).

Of my other boards, the Kawai MP6 has one really good Rhodes patch, as does the Numa Piano.

I am hoping that Nord will release updated and larger EP samples soon, so that the new Electro 4D can compete with the newer boards from other manufacturers.

Also, if you liked the CP1 but don't want to invest another 4k, what about the CP5 & 50?



No offense, but after my Kronos debacle, I'm of the less is more mentality. I don't see myself getting another workstation anytime soon.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971367 - 10/10/12 02:45 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 788
I love my Electro 3HP for EPs. The keys are just about right for EP playing (for me), and the FX section works great.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#1971371 - 10/10/12 02:47 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
emenelton Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 445
The Nord Stage 2 is an incredible instrument. Definitely worth owning(at least once in your life)!

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#1971377 - 10/10/12 03:07 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3149
The only thing not mentioned yet that I think might deserve consideration would be the Kurzweil SP4 or SP5. I actually like the Kurz EPs better than Nord's.

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#1971385 - 10/10/12 03:32 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kbeaumont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 257
Loc: Virginia, USA
I agree with anotherscott if your looking for EP's especially spot on recreations of vintage ep sounds, that's where Kurzweil really shines.
_________________________
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....

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#1971389 - 10/10/12 03:38 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Kbeaumont]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: Kbeaumont
I agree with anotherscott if your looking for EP's especially spot on recreations of vintage ep sounds, that's where Kurzweil really shines.


Interesting. Would never have considered, but I'll take a look.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971416 - 10/10/12 04:32 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
I agree and disagree. EP' s sound great on Kurzweil PC3's overall, but lacks the details in dynamics (velocity switches) , bit stretched over the keybed and short looped. In a band you don't hear such details very soon, but for yourself and in solo passages you can hear that the sample sets that form the base of the presets are quite old and cramped in too little memory space. The excellent effects section and programming make a lot good for these older key sets , but nevertheless. Of course you can try somewhere and hear for yourself. Use a PC3(K) with up to date firmware and presets, to get the best impression. By the way the keybed is mediocre Fatar TP40 on the 88 keys machines. But that's similar to what Nord is using, so...

73 version is TP8 , many don't like that, others don't complain. I would stay away from the Kurzweil light versions (PC3LE, SP series) , they offer simply less of everything the PC3 has to offer. Perhaps SP5-8 will be interesting, but that's not out yet...

From a previous long term Kurzweil user ;-)

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#1971455 - 10/10/12 05:34 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree with JFP. Kurzweil's EPs sound good but dig in and there's no resolution to them - somewhat one dimensional in my opinion.

The more recent Nord additions - Bright Tines and especially Sparkletop are much more detailed. I've yet to hear a Rhodes on a DP that is substantially better than the Sparkletop.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1971464 - 10/10/12 05:47 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
How about a software instrument like Neo-Soul keys?

Or go full circle and buy a Vintage Vibe?
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1971475 - 10/10/12 05:55 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: JFP]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3149
Originally Posted By: JFP
I would stay away from the Kurzweil light versions (PC3LE, SP series) , they offer simply less of everything the PC3 has to offer.

There is no difference between the low end and high end Kurzweils in the sound of the EPs. However, the SP4 as shipped only includes a handful of them, and you do have to go through some extra effort to locate and load the other PC3 EP programs that they are also capable of using, if you prefer them.

The higher end Kurzweils do offer other actions, more polyphony, more physical controllers, more simultaneous fx, etc., but the EPs don't sound any better... and since the OP was overwhelmed by the workstation-ness of the Kronos, I think he would be even more put off by a PC3 series board.

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#1971477 - 10/10/12 05:59 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Or go full circle and buy a Vintage Vibe?

thumb thumb thumb
+1001! Currently, the best there is, IMO.

I agree with those above who say that Kurzweil EPs sound good, but lack resolution/definition. Both Kurzweil and Nord are overdue for an EP update. Korg and Yamaha are definitely a notch better at the moment, I think.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1971480 - 10/10/12 06:09 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: anotherscott

There is no difference between the low end and high end Kurzweils in the sound of the EPs.

For a short while I owned the PC3, followed by the SP4-7. Although the patches and (most of) the effects are the same, I felt - but couldn't prove - that the PC series had better processing (DA converters???) and sounded just a tad better than the SPs.

Quote:
since the OP was overwhelmed by the workstation-ness of the Kronos, I think he would be even more put off by a PC3 series board.

Yes, my shriveled brain couldn't - or didn't want to - cope with the intricacies of the PC3. I find the Krome hugely less off-putting in that respect, but for 95% of what I do, it'll be the Krome's APs and EPs (plus a smattering of organ and synth) that I use, and I'll just ignore its workstation features, which, fortunately, don't impose themselves unduly. That said, I think that VAST synthesis and KB3 organs kick the Krome's equivalent features into the dust. However, for APs and EPs I don't think I'd pick another of the current Kurzweil crop.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1971488 - 10/10/12 06:31 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3149
Originally Posted By: voxpops

Yes, my shriveled brain couldn't - or didn't want to - cope with the intricacies of the PC3. I find the Krome hugely less off-putting in that respect, but for 95% of what I do, it'll be the Krome's APs and EPs (plus a smattering of organ and synth) that I use, and I'll just ignore its workstation features, which, fortunately, don't impose themselves unduly.

Yes... the simpler design/appearance of the Krome would be less psychologically imposing than the higher end workstations with their myriad of front panel controls... and it really should be pretty easy to ignore its workstation underpinnings. When I used an M50 (which has many similarities with the Krome, though obviously, not its piano or EP sounds), I created a program screen with my favorite 16 sounds on it, and I *left* it on the patch selection screen. That is, I would select the sound I wanted (which would immediately assign the keyboard to that sound) but I did NOT hit the Okay button. That way I would just have a constant set of 16 one-click buttons to switch sounds (or I could page over for another 16 if that wasn't enough... I never needed more than 32). Then it really did feel like a simple preset-playback machine, and not a workstation, when operating it like that. No menu diving or any kind of complicated on screen maneuvers during performance.

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#1971516 - 10/10/12 07:48 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Kawai James]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
How about a software instrument like Neo-Soul keys?

Or go full circle and buy a Vintage Vibe?
. I have plenty of software EPs. I want something for my living room... Vintage might be the way.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971525 - 10/10/12 08:06 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
One of my colleagues received one as a birthday gift from his wife.
Suffice it to say we're all very jealous of him - both for owning a Vintage Vibe and for marrying such a cool woman. wink
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1971526 - 10/10/12 08:06 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
How about a software instrument like Neo-Soul keys?

Or go full circle and buy a Vintage Vibe?
. I have plenty of software EPs. I want something for my living room... Vintage might be the way.

Can I come round and play it? wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1971538 - 10/10/12 08:38 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hey, get in line VP!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1971569 - 10/10/12 09:56 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1717
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I wish I never sold the CP1,


Hate to say it Bruce but ..... told ya !

There is a heavily toured one for sale in Echo Park I know of wink
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1971597 - 10/10/12 11:17 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Dr Popper]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I wish I never sold the CP1,


Hate to say it Bruce but ..... told ya !

There is a heavily toured one for sale in Echo Park I know of wink



Yes... I nominate myself for pianoworld's village idiot for that one. Definitely my greatest keyboard regret.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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#1971675 - 10/11/12 05:02 AM Re: Best EP. [Re: Kawai James]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
One of my colleagues received one as a birthday gift from his wife.
Suffice it to say we're all very jealous of him - both for owning a Vintage Vibe and for marrying such a cool woman. wink


Having spent the day doing some research, I think the Vintage Vibe is just what I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggestion!


Edited by Hideki Matsui (10/11/12 05:02 AM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

Top
#1971682 - 10/11/12 05:42 AM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Nice one - looking forward to seeing the pics! wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1971694 - 10/11/12 07:12 AM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
EssBrace Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Has anyone around here tried the Waldorf Zarenbourg thing? That would look pretty cool in the right room. But is it any good? The one video demo I've seen seemed pretty good to me.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1971759 - 10/11/12 10:36 AM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3019
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
One of my colleagues received one as a birthday gift from his wife.
Suffice it to say we're all very jealous of him - both for owning a Vintage Vibe and for marrying such a cool woman. wink


Having spent the day doing some research, I think the Vintage Vibe is just what I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggestion!

whome smokin thumb sick crazy grin
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

https://soundcloud.com/richards-recordings/sets/strange-charm-waiting-for-the/s-ppGuy

"can hardly wait to hear what voxpox has to say..."
[HisKidd, May 2014]

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#1971891 - 10/11/12 03:30 PM Re: Best EP. [Re: Hideki Matsui]
Hideki Matsui Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 787
Color suggestions. I'm going with a sparkle top because it hide scratches and swirls the best.

Also 64 or 73? 64 goes A to C like a wurly. I'm thinking 64 would be good for EP and they indicated that the pickup arrangement seems to produce the best tone on the 64.

http://vintagevibepiano.com/color-options/



Edited by Hideki Matsui (10/11/12 03:50 PM)
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80

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