I see posts occasionally about a lucky future owner talking about ordering a piano. I always thought it was safer to buy a new piano that you could play and approve first. How do people know what they will get tonewise. I have played some varied but identical models side by side that were quite different in sound. Is this a common practice to order, especially at stores that don't carry huge inventories?

There is a certain adrenaline rush that comes with taking a chance. Sure, the piano could end up sounding not as good as expected, but there is also the possibility that it will sound even better!

From what I have read here, it seems like it might depend on which brand and model piano you were ordering. I have read that some of the Japanese models are very similar from piano to piano, and you can always have the piano voiced after it arrives if you don't care for the exact tone. This supposes that you heard the same model in a store first and liked its overall tone and touch, I would think. Some other, high-end pianos from America and Europe can vary a lot and I would think you would want to play them before buying. I am not an expert--this just seems to be what I have read here in the past. I guess it also depends on your level of experience with pianos. Some customers do not have prior conceptions of what they hope to hear from a piano and may be pleased no matter what. Just my opinion.

It's a gamble you have to take, particularly if the local market is small. I ordered mine in - on the basis of what I saw done on her baby sister, the smaller Charis when I asked about adjusting it to be at performance standard. However, I preferred to get a new one rather than the floor stock which was 3 years old (though "new"). And I went up a size at the same time.

And she's lovely - she had her first service last week, and a few regulation adjustments were made, but only a few notes needed it. However, I don't doubt that it could have been quite different. Having a salesman who is also the technician, and having had good reports of the technician gave me confidence with the purchase.

On the other hand, with some dealers where expensive performance pianos were not performing at that level - and who became defensive when challenged to show you how it would perform if adjusted correctly - I wouldn't have had any confidence.

For me and from several of the posts I've read here, there's 2 competing desires when piano shopping. When buying the dream piano/last piano, you want to get exactly what you want in brand, size, color, and features, which may not be found in the dealer's showroom. Many other piano shoppers only trust their own ears and hands when picking their dream piano and have such exacting demands for the sound and touch, they can't just order one and take the risk, similar to a "mail-order bride".

There's many optimists, that are convinced that their special dream piano is waiting for them at a local dealer, ready to be delivered to it's forever home. The optimists often shop for a very long time.

I could easily become a piano-polygamist. I fell in love with 3 pianos when I bought the C3. I chose the best I could afford.

For me, I had played several Sauter grands. I loved the tone, touch and finish on these pianos. Yes, it could be a gamble when ordering anything sight unseen, but when you look at the manufacturers' track record in producing a quality product, some of the trepidation dissipates.

After all, if you were into performance cars and driving, would you hesitate to order a Ferarri without 'kicking the tires' first?

allthumbs

I think the difference the we wrestle with here is that cars are generally the same (yes, we have 'lemon laws' for a reason, but fortunately they're not necessary too often); where we know that for pianos there are differences between like models. For some brands, not very much, but for others much more that we'd like. It's the variability which is the risk behind ordering a piano. And unlike a car which is a relatively transient purchase, your piano relationship is likely to be much longer.

Good luck with the Sauter (and I've also liked any that I've been able to play)

There are several makes whereby ordering "sight unseen" can make perfect or at least 'very good' sense.

This is especially true if certain makes are not available in a shopper's own territory.

By same token it's also true when stocking certain high end pianos or at least "many" of them would only add unnecessary cost to purchase price.

As we live in the age of "endless discounts, let's not forget the best possible discounts often often available by pre-orders.

Having done this on numerous occasions for far away customers who saw this instant advantage for them, the biggest issue later has always been the quality of tech hired to do the prep work.

People forget that using different type techs is often the very reason why pianos end up sounding differently on dealers floors to begin with.

Pianos, especially handmade ones may indeed vary somewhat from one specimen to another "out of box" but this is not a hindrance or impediment for a top tech to get things done exactly to customer's wishes.

Using a tech who can easily tune in to customer's own wishes is what it's in our experience all about.

In fact,we often have the very same discussion when showing "fully prepped" pianos to customers visiting our showrooms.

Out of box pianos may need a couple of services but that's not an issue. Using a recognized top tech does not come cheap but it's part of the cost doing business in such circumstances.

Just received a bill of $ 650.00 for multiple prepping for a brand new Estonia grand delivered in crate to an out of town piano teacher 1000 miles away from us near Vancouver, B.C.

Considering the owner who had taken the risk first buying sight unseen now writing to be "blown away", the tech very happy with piano making even recommendations for us now, it's all immensely worth it.

In fact thinking it's actually "cheap"

Trick is to do the job right and make it work for all parties involved.

To OP: talk to your dealer and see if you can establish a good rapport and trust right from the beginning: it's the most important aspect when making a choice!

Wishing you the best!

Norbert

I suspect that only a small percentage of professional classical pianists order a piano(with the possible exception of the few makes known for their extreme consistency) before playing it with the hope that a tech, no matter how good, can make it exactly to their liking.

I totally agree with you, but as Norbert said, a good tech can do wonders in changing the characteristics of a good piano. I have every faith that my Sauter purchase will match or exceed my expectations. I'll keep you posted.





Thanks for your sentiment. I could only wish that everyone who has a passion for playing the piano would have the opportunity I now have waited for for a long time...

Cheers,

allthumbs

I agree that a good tech can make a huge improvement in how a piano plays and sounds, but I don't think the basic characteristics or inherent sound/tone of a particular piano can be drastically changed.

If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many different brands with different tonal characteristics.

Good point, though...

As far as buying/ordering a piano sight-unseen and unplayed/unheard, I actually considered that option when I was shopping for a piano. I just could not follow through and make myself do it... I need to hear and play what I'm getting.

Rick

It's so complex and yet so easy to make the choice of ordering or playing first.

When the piano is needed by an interior decorator, order away.

For an intermediate pianist, then there should be an extensive search to find "the" instrument. That's half the fun.

Concerning the Concert Level or very advanced pianist, they will already know the particular tonal structure and action of the builder they prefer. At that level, they would also understand the parameters of voicing and regulation and how it affects the brand they like. Ordering would certainly be considered if the model they want is unavailable. Or possibly, they would just jump on a plane and head to the factory.

I wonder if any of the piano builders display instruments at the big furniture trade shows?

True, but a good tech can make the piano sound the way you want it.



I hear you on this point, but not having a number of pianos in the make I was shopping for to compare, the only other option than the one I chose was to go to the factory. That would have been ideal and awesome. I read a post of someone doing just that in choosing their piano and I was so envious.

Lots of high-end pianos end up that way.



I have been trying and drooling over all makes of great pianos even before I was an intermediate pianist.



Well, I wouldn’t consider myself in that category, although I do play some advanced pieces, but I do know what I like in a piano sound and touch. I have had the fun of trying a lot of Tier 1 to 3 pianos here in Vancouver and surrounding area. It is a relief to finally be in a position to acquire my retirement mistress.



Don’t give anyone any such ideas! There are already too many Steinways, Bösendorfers, Faziolis and the like suffering from such a fate.

I don't feel too bad for those wonderful pianos. They are having a nice rest and will be a sweet deal in a few years for some lucky pianist who could never afford them new! If the rich help keep the great piano makers in business, it's all good.

I see nothing wrong with someone who can afford the most expensive pianos choosing to buy one even if they can't play a note.

True



Agreed given jdw's comment.

Marty, I once talked to a Steinway piano dealer and said " I'll bet many of these pianos will go to homes that no pianists residing there." His reply, and I quote this, " about 80-90% are bought by wealthy homeowners/status seekers"
I hope this is not true, but it could be nothing but a symbol of quality by the "unwashed wealthy masses"

What's wrong with someone who can afford an expensive piano buying one even if they don't play?

Pianoloverus, nothing but good for the piano industry, but disgusting for most of the piano players who dream of such an instrument and can never afford one. It's like investors buying Duesenbergs for hopeful increase in profit. While the true car lovers who can't afford, but would cherish the same auto. I dream of owning an Allen organ that costs about $130,000. Could I buy one new? If I was obsessed, perhaps, but I will wait to get one when they are about $40,000. Fortunately for musicians, many instruments come up for sale by wealthy, or deceased owners for a fraction of their original prices. One thing that I'm happy about, organs never appreciate, some pianos do in time.

I don't see anything "disgusting" about it. Because one person can't afford something doesn't make it disgusting for someone who can afford it to buy it. There are plenty of things only wealthy people can afford. No one has more right to own a piano more than someone else just because they're skills are greater. People have the right to own things they can afford for whatever reason they want to. Buying an expensive piano for its appearance only, for status, to place photos on is just as good a reason as any other.

True car lovers have one reason for wanting an expensive car and investors have another reason and neither reason is "better".

In an ideal world, every beginner would start on a "D" Steinway or equivalent. Well, maybe I exaggerate a little. But an awful lot more would be still playing today.

I'm only intermediate, but I appreciate the best - I can afford. I sacrificed with other things like holidays away, small basic car etc.

I had one dealer's tuner say that for my standard I don't need as good a piano as I aspired to. I didn't buy anything there! And he had that attitude with the pianos he prepared - very ordinary.

Of course people can own whatever they want for whatever reason. But what a complete waste of a perfectly good piano !!

Regarding variability between pianos (seen near the beginning of the thread)... I'd heard that Japanese pianos were supposedly very consistent from one piano to the next.

Well, a few years ago, I was temporarily tuning for a local Yamaha dealer. I was in their warehouse, and tuned two Yamaha verticals (about 44-45" home furniture style, forgot exactly which models now) one day. They were brand new pianos and hadn't been on the sales floor yet. (I may have even removed some packing material, I don't remember now, although the pianos were already uncrated.)
In spite of the two Yamahas being the same model number and having consecutive serial numbers, I could detect a tonal difference in some areas between the two pianos.

Am I the only one that has ever noticed something like that?

I prefer to personally play a piano before I buy it. Also pretty much every time I will not be ready to commit to buy on that visit. (However, I did decide to buy a few 1950s Baldwin Hamiltons on the day I looked at them.)

It's only a waste of you assume the only reason to own a piano is to play it. But that's a false assumption IMO.

The selling of pianos, in any type of market, benefits the entire industry and helps to keep the builders building and the piano shop doors open. That's good!

For our retailers in the forum, is it common to work with interior designers who are shopping on behalf of clients? Do they mostly fall into the special order category for specific cabinetry?

To special order, or shoping from floor stock, seems to boil down to the purchasing preference of the one holding the checkbook. In this way it can be very similar to buying a new car. Let's not dismiss either method. It's all good.

I suppose it is similar to the assumptions that we buy food to eat, clothes to wear, cars to drive and houses to live in. If people buy these items for other purposes (or buy them but ultimately don't use them - like the pool in my backyard ), then that's their business. At least some of the wealthy non-players who buy expensive pianos as status symbols have the good sense to install player systems or invite friends over to play their fine instruments. After all - no matter how they are ultimately used - pianos are originally designed and built to be played.

I agree pianos are designed as musical instruments, but I don't think it's fair to say that wealthy people who don't play piano necessarily buy expensive pianos for status. Status is just one possible reason although I think it's just as good a reason as any other and should not be criticized.

Of course status is just one possible reason. I personally don't care why anyone buys anything. After all, consumer spending keeps the economy moving. But I sometimes get annoyed when I see a perfectly good instrument going to waste - no matter who owns it.

While Steinway prides itself on no two pianos being alike, that simply isn't the other case with other brands, either higher or lower on the quality spectrum. No other manufacturer has to bake in the price of flying you out to the factory to sample a piano into the price of their concert grands. You can generally expect consistency among quality pianos of the same make and revision.