Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
99 registered (accordeur, Anne'sson, Almaviva, Allan Sutton, anotherscott, 29 invisible), 1505 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#1972853 - 10/13/12 05:23 PM Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265
Works1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 457
Loc: New York
I'm currently working on Mozart's 12 Variations K265 and am having some trouble with the trills in Variation No. 2.

Can someone please let me know how the trill in measure 17 of the 2nd Variation is played.

Much appreciated.



Edited by Works1 (10/14/12 07:07 AM)

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#1972929 - 10/13/12 09:02 PM Re: Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265 [Re: Works1]
RollingTenths Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 19
Loc: Minnesota
I do it like this.


It is just my interpretation. I have a "Kalmus Classic Edition" of the piece, which only has the "tr" notation in measure 17.


Edited by RollingTenths (10/13/12 09:05 PM)
_________________________
-"RollingTenths words of wisdom"

Top
#1973025 - 10/14/12 05:14 AM Re: Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265 [Re: RollingTenths]
Works1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 457
Loc: New York
Thanks RollingTenths.

Last night I remembered a post a few days ago about a program to slow down audio (called transcriber) and I tried it on Clara Haskill's recording and it worked like a charm. Measure 17 is played as you indicated.

Top
#1973224 - 10/14/12 04:42 PM Re: Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265 [Re: Works1]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
Interesting, because I recently read a short book ornamentation that says(with a few rare exceptions) trills in Classical period music begin on the upper(auxilliary)note. This is the opposite of what's indicated in the post two before mine.

Top
#1973231 - 10/14/12 04:57 PM Re: Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265 [Re: Works1]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6159
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I remember reading a note about this variation in the book I have... In "Interpreting Mozart" by Badura-Skoda Variation No.2 is mentioned in the chapter on ornaments:
"At the beginning of Var.II in the variations on 'Ah, vous dirai-je, maman', K.265, he also wrote a tr sign instead of a turn symbol".
(I am not sure why "at the beginning"... Measure No.17 is not really at the beginning, but it is the only measure with a tr marking in that variation, maybe he meant K.265 rather than Var.II...)
So basically he meant a turn.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1973275 - 10/14/12 06:49 PM Re: Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265 [Re: pianoloverus]
Works1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 457
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Interesting, because I recently read a short book ornamentation that says(with a few rare exceptions) trills in Classical period music begin on the upper(auxilliary)note. This is the opposite of what's indicated in the post two before mine.


It appears that in at least variation 2, standard convention for trills is not followed as there are "tr" markings where the trill starts on the auxilliary note and others that start on the root.


Top
#1973276 - 10/14/12 06:51 PM Re: Trills in Mozart's 12 Variations K265 [Re: ChopinAddict]
Works1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 457
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I remember reading a note about this variation in the book I have... In "Interpreting Mozart" by Badura-Skoda Variation No.2 is mentioned in the chapter on ornaments:
"At the beginning of Var.II in the variations on 'Ah, vous dirai-je, maman', K.265, he also wrote a tr sign instead of a turn symbol".
(I am not sure why "at the beginning"... Measure No.17 is not really at the beginning, but it is the only measure with a tr marking in that variation, maybe he meant K.265 rather than Var.II...)
So basically he meant a turn.


Thanks ChopinAddict. There are modified "turns" played in the opening theme when only a "tr" is indicated so perhaps he was referring to this section. As far as I can tell from reviewing the music and listening to many recordings, there are no other turns in this piece.

Great piece of music and more difficult to play than what meets the eye. But then again so is most of Mozart I think.

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
- > Gift Ideas for Music Lovers < -
From PianoSupplies.com a division of Piano World.
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Creating schedule of lessons for next term
by Arghhh
13 minutes 49 seconds ago
Deciding on Yamaha CG2 vs Kawai RX-6
by Vu Le
16 minutes 39 seconds ago
Crumb's Makrokosmos Vol. II No. V Technical difficulties
by Digital Mozart
Today at 08:49 PM
Lifetime Piano Tunings with New Piano Purchase?
by MusicMasters
Today at 07:51 PM
Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand
by integris
Today at 05:39 PM
Forum Stats
77348 Members
42 Forums
159964 Topics
2349214 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission