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#1972952 - 10/13/12 11:00 PM Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts
thaiguy20fromla Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 132
Loc: California, USA
Hi all, I'm currently working on the Liszt Concerto No. 1 in Eb Major for my school's concerto competition and I'm blanking over how to condense the material down to 8-12 minutes in a coherent way. Any ideas?
_________________________
Fall 2012 Rep:
Polonaise Op. 53 - Chopin
Ballade Op. 47 - Chopin
Piano Sonata K.333 - Mozart
WTC Prelude and Fugue in D Major, Bk 1 - Bach
Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues - Rzewski
Piano Concerto No. 1 - Liszt
Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano - Cage

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#1973000 - 10/14/12 02:43 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: thaiguy20fromla
....I'm blanking over how to condense the material down to 8-12 minutes in a coherent way....

No idea at all?
There's a pretty obvious one. I'd suggest you think a little more before clicking on it below.
Hint: It's probably far-and-away the most common way of doing this kind of thing in general -- done in competitions very often. Also in lessons, master classes, and just about anything else.

Click to reveal..
Leave out a movement or two. For example, there's at least one performance on youtube that's just the first and last movements.

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#1973227 - 10/14/12 04:49 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
pianoloverus Online   content
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I believe the Liszt Concerto is in one movement. Although Liszt lovers will hate me, I'd suggest a solution would be to cancel your Verizon hook up and leave out the part for ringing telephone.

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#1973235 - 10/14/12 05:18 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6070
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: thaiguy20fromla
Hi all, I'm currently working on the Liszt Concerto No. 1 in Eb Major for my school's concerto competition and I'm blanking over how to condense the material down to 8-12 minutes in a coherent way. Any ideas?


1.Allegro maestoso
4.Allegro marziale animato
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1973248 - 10/14/12 06:01 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I believe the Liszt Concerto is in one movement....

Four

Allegro maestoso
Quasi adagio
Allegretto vivace - Allegro animato
Allegro marziale animato

Originally Posted By: Damon
1.Allegro maestoso
4.Allegro marziale animato

Right -- that would do it.

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#1973256 - 10/14/12 06:13 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
pianoloverus Online   content
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From David Dubal's The Art of the Piano:

The Liszt Concerto..."is in one continuous movement in four sections."

OTOH Wiki(who I trust less)says:
"The concerto consists of four movements, which are performed without breaks in between, and lasts approximately 20 minutes."

From Toronto symphony orchestra notes:
"In form, the concerto is at once radically innovative and reliant (albeit loosely) on Classical models: it unfolds as a single continuous drama, yet comprises four discrete sections that mimic the movements of a Classical symphony (fast, slow, scherzo, fast). Each of the first three “movements” has its own themes, but the march-like finale (heralded by the return of the opening theme) is made up entirely of themes from earlier “movements,” now wholly transformed. The cumulative effect provides a satisfying sense of closure."

So perhaps it's open to interpretation.


Edited by pianoloverus (10/14/12 06:36 PM)

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#1973262 - 10/14/12 06:22 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
From David Dubal's The Art of the Piano:

The Liszt Concerto..."is in one continuous movement in four sections."

Are you willing to concede that at least there are two reasonable ways to view it (and how it is viewed), and that therefore the initial statement about it wasn't particularly worth countering, especially because what was suggested is indeed the main possible answer? grin

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#1973266 - 10/14/12 06:26 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
From David Dubal's The Art of the Piano:

The Liszt Concerto..."is in one continuous movement in four sections."

Are you willing to concede that at least there are two reasonable ways to view it (and how it is viewed), and that therefore the initial statement about it wasn't worth countering? grin
There are two ways although I had always heard of it as being in one movement. Whether it's worth countering is also open to opinion, and I'd have to spend a few hours to decide such an important question. I checked Dubal before I wrote my post. The fact that some consider it a one movement may be the reason why the OP didn't consider breaking it up that way to get under the time limit.


Edited by pianoloverus (10/14/12 06:38 PM)

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#1973267 - 10/14/12 06:28 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Good answer. smile
But it does seem like the only issue would have been whether you want to call them "movements" or "sections" -- which has no effect on what's being talked about here.

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#1973274 - 10/14/12 06:49 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6070
Loc: St. Louis area
I thought it was the second concerto that was considered one movement. It is often broken up into 6 sections on recordings.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1973280 - 10/14/12 07:02 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6070
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
which has no effect on what's being talked about here.


It made his telephone joke smoother.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1973284 - 10/14/12 07:08 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
It made his telephone joke smoother.

Actually I didn't get that either.
Maybe you wanna help us out....


Of course please pardon the plural first person. ha

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#1973294 - 10/14/12 07:35 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6070
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Damon
It made his telephone joke smoother.

Actually I didn't get that either.
Maybe you wanna help us out....


Of course please pardon the plural first person. ha


I assumed PL doesn't like the 3rd um...section.
_________________________
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#1973299 - 10/14/12 07:46 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
pianoloverus Online   content
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I have been to several performances where someone yelled out "Someone get that phone" at certain places in this piece. They're pretty obvious.

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#1973302 - 10/14/12 07:49 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6070
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I have been to several performances where someone yelled out "Someone get that phone" at certain places in this piece. They're pretty obvious.


Was it you? Maybe you shouldn't go to the performances given in high school gymnasiums.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1973304 - 10/14/12 07:55 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
pianoloverus Online   content
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I heard Argerich play this piece live at Carnegie Hall along time ago. I was going to yell out about "answering the phone" but at the last second decided she might not appreciate my sense of humor.


Edited by pianoloverus (10/14/12 07:58 PM)

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#1973315 - 10/14/12 08:38 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Varcon Offline
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Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
I played just the '1st' movement my junior year in high school and the entire concerto as a senior. Somebody must be bothered that Liszt saw fit to introduce the triangle in this one. Um . .reminds me of Jesu Sanroma's performance in Chicago where he missed all of the opening octaves and it didn't seem to improve as he continued.

Possibly the worst live, professional performance I've heard other than a rather lousy solo performance a few years ago by Eugene Istomin.

I haven't timed the movements but it might work with 1st and 4th.

Ralph


Edited by Varcon (10/14/12 08:43 PM)

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#1973346 - 10/14/12 09:58 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
thaiguy20fromla Offline
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Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 132
Loc: California, USA
The rules for my conservatory's competition is to have representative sections of all the movements, so I'd have to at least touch on all four of the movements.
_________________________
Fall 2012 Rep:
Polonaise Op. 53 - Chopin
Ballade Op. 47 - Chopin
Piano Sonata K.333 - Mozart
WTC Prelude and Fugue in D Major, Bk 1 - Bach
Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues - Rzewski
Piano Concerto No. 1 - Liszt
Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano - Cage

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#1973348 - 10/14/12 10:00 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: Varcon]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Varcon
....other than a rather lousy solo performance a few years ago by Eugene Istomin.

I didn't know "lousy" was possible for him!

Quote:
I haven't timed the movements but it might work with 1st and 4th.

As I said, it ought to be pretty solid for the stated limit.

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#1973349 - 10/14/12 10:01 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: thaiguy20fromla
The rules for my conservatory's competition is to have representative sections of all the movements, so I'd have to at least touch on all four of the movements.

Well in that case..... grin

(That's harder -- and it seems pretty strange, with the time limit you said.)

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#1973388 - 10/14/12 11:50 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6070
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: thaiguy20fromla
The rules for my conservatory's competition is to have representative sections of all the movements, so I'd have to at least touch on all four of the movements.


Really? And you will need to coordinate this with an orchestra? I'm sure a medley of movements is possible but I would hesitate to suggest how. Are breaks allowed between movements/sections or is this to be continuous music?
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1973391 - 10/15/12 12:13 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
ChopinAddict Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6095
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Can't you work it out with the orchestra? They might have some good ideas too.
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Music is my best friend.


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#1973394 - 10/15/12 12:24 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: ChopinAddict]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Can't you work it out with the orchestra? They might have some good ideas too.

Or with your teacher??

Or, if all else fails (and it might), see if you can't 'negotiate' the stupid thing about needing to touch on all movements. grin

And if none of that works....
Since, all things considered, it's such an odd and difficult thing, with that time limit -- maybe they wouldn't really expect it to be that "coherent"! Maybe a sequence of excepts not sounding like much more than a sequence of excerpts would be fine enough.

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#1973398 - 10/15/12 12:33 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
thaiguy20fromla Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 132
Loc: California, USA
I'll consult with my teacher and also with one my colleagues- he won last year and is doing Liebermann 2, which I just realize is about half an hour long. I'm brainstorming, and so far, I'm thinking of these:

Mvt 1:
Playing to just after the Presto (but missing out on my favorite part, when the theme leads to the E major seventh chord into the ending...)

Mvt 2:
Solo piano entrance to just before the trills for days...

Mvt 3:
Up to before the restatement of the cyclic theme

Mvt 4:
After the restatement of the recitative in the 2nd movement to the end

I think that touches on the important parts of the concerto... I'll figure out the approximate timings tomorrow.
_________________________
Fall 2012 Rep:
Polonaise Op. 53 - Chopin
Ballade Op. 47 - Chopin
Piano Sonata K.333 - Mozart
WTC Prelude and Fugue in D Major, Bk 1 - Bach
Winnsboro Cotton Mill Blues - Rzewski
Piano Concerto No. 1 - Liszt
Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano - Cage

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#1973400 - 10/15/12 12:37 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Looks like good ideas! But....

Originally Posted By: thaiguy20fromla
....(but missing out on my favorite part, when the theme leads to the E major seventh chord into the ending...)....

What a shame!

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#1973472 - 10/15/12 06:41 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
pianoloverus Online   content
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The whole idea of requiring parts of each movement of the chosen concerto seems outrageously silly to me. Forcing the participants to break up masterpieces into incoherent mishmoshes. Particularly horrendous for any listening audience. I'm surprised many participants, teachers, and audience members haven't complained.

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#1973744 - 10/15/12 07:14 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
Varcon Offline
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Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
Oh--that puts an entirely different perspective to consider.

So you would be expected to do about 2-3 minutes from each section? That's a bit weird.

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#1973882 - 10/16/12 12:56 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: pianoloverus]
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
The whole idea of requiring parts of each movement of the chosen concerto seems outrageously silly to me. Forcing the participants to break up masterpieces into incoherent mishmoshes. Particularly horrendous for any listening audience. I'm surprised many participants, teachers, and audience members haven't complained.


Decidedly bizarre and certainly intended not to display or test any real musicianship. Makes you wonder who's running this "show"!
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#1973890 - 10/16/12 01:43 AM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Online   content
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Registered: 11/11/09
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One of our few things on which it seems everyone is unanimous (if you pardon the redundancy). grin

How about this collection of adjectives that we've used for it:

strange
odd
silly
horrendous
weird
bizarre

....and rightly so.
That's why I would think he has a decent chance to be able to work out something with them that makes more sense -- because it's hard to believe that any halfway accomplished and serious musicians wouldn't see it and therefore be open to something better. But then again, if you're dealing with the people who presumably set up that system, who knows.

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#1974044 - 10/16/12 12:01 PM Re: Liszt Eb Major Concerto Cuts [Re: thaiguy20fromla]
im@me Offline
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Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 68
Which school is this?

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