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66 members (anotherscott, Bellyman, Carey, brennbaer, busa, ChickenBrother, Barly, 1957, 10 invisible),
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,304
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,304 |
Come on - we have lots of smart individuals here. Spelling it out spoils it. Anyway, landorrano and I are enjoying ourselves.
In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,555
4000 Post Club Member
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4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,555 |
If this is still about teaching rubato, I admit it. It has not been proven to me that rubato needs to be taught at all.
gotta go practice
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521
6000 Post Club Member
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6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,521 |
Actually, the translation is correct. The word literally means "robbed". Look in an italian dictionary and see whether it says anything about stealing time ... or about giving it back. part. pass. di rubare ¨ agg. [f. -a; pl.m. -i, f. -e] nei sign. del verbo ||| agg. e n.m. [f. -a; pl.m. -i, f. -e] ( mus.) indicazione sul testo musicale con la quale si prescrive un’esecuzione svincolata dalla rigidità del tempo: eseguire un rubato; una battuta in tempo rubato. I see you answering a different question. One person gave a literal translation of the verb form, with no context. You are giving the specific musical definition, and that is going to be roughly the same in any language. )
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572
2000 Post Club Member
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2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,572 |
True enough.
Still, one can say that he thinks of rubato as stealing time and then giving it back; that is one way to conceive of it, an interpretation or a metaphore, no problem. But he can't say that rubato is translated or defined as stealing time and then giving it back. Well, one can say it, but it is simply not so and, in my opinion, leaves the question on a very shallow level.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678 |
I didn't see this before. LadyChen's literal translation is correct. Meanwhile: Actually, the translation is correct. The word literally means "robbed". Look in an italian dictionary and see whether it says anything about stealing time ... or about giving it back. part. pass. di rubare ¨ agg. [f. -a; pl.m. -i, f. -e] nei sign. del verbo ||| agg. e n.m. [f. -a; pl.m. -i, f. -e] ( mus.) indicazione sul testo musicale con la quale si prescrive un’esecuzione svincolata dalla rigidità del tempo: eseguire un rubato; una battuta in tempo rubato. In what way is it helpful to quote a definition in a language that most people in the forum do not understand? I've passed your definition through Google Translate and get: " indication of the musical text with which prescribes execution released by the rigidity of time to perform a steal, steal a line in time." Someone else can turn this into proper English. I see the word "steal" which is a synonym of "rob". Here is a definition from my musical dictionary: Rubato [It. tempo rubato stolen time]
In performance, the practice of altering the relationship among written note-values and making the established pulse flexible by accelerating and slowing down the tempo; such flexibility has long been an expressive device.
Two varieties of rubato are usually discussed. In the first, the underlying pulse remains constant while the rhythmic values are minutely inflected. This was extensively done as an expressive nuance in the 18th century, especially in the solo part or melody of slow movements (the instrumental adagio and vocal cantabile) while the accompaniment held the beat steady.
The second type is the more common, present-day understanding of rubato. Changes in tempo and rhythmic figuration (accelerando and ritardando) are mode in all parts at the same time without any compensation; the original tempo is simply resumed at the performer's discretion. Even though this expressive rhythmic freedom is frequently associated with the playing styles of 19th century virtuosos such as Liszt, it is discussed by 17th- and 18th- century writers.**
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 450
Full Member
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OP
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 450 |
Some teachers may start with freedom, and bring in the accuracy later. Yikes! Talk about playing with fire. No no no no no!!! You can't play with rubato until you can play the entire piece precisely with the metronome. On the scale of grossly over-rubato to strictly in time, I'd err on the side of strictly in time. Even for Chopin. In fact, Chopin showed tremendous restraint as a performer and he disdained over-rubato. It's easy to fool untrained ears with "expressive" rubato (plus ultra-choreographed movements to match). Rubato cannot be a substitute for lack of technique and rhythmic accuracy. That's how we've all been taught, but is that the right way to do it? Are you killing something inside the pianist by suppressing that type of freedom right off the bat? For the record, I also get my students to play evenly before adding rubato.
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