Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyers Guide
Who's Online
137 registered (ajames, augustm, anamnesis, ando, 34 invisible), 2167 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1975299 - 10/18/12 04:43 PM sharps, flats and naturals....
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 1124
Loc: pagosa springs,co
I find it very annoying to explain to students when they are entered in incorrect places....ie....across a bar line....arghhh!

rada

Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1975546 - 10/19/12 07:39 AM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: Virginia, USA
On the other hand, there are many places where the so-called "courtesy" accidental avoids a LOT of trouble.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1975893 - 10/19/12 07:10 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
SoundThumb Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 421
Loc: San Diego, CA
So these things are called "courtesy" accidentals? As a beginning student they have caused me no end of confusion and I have used a lot of names for them, most of which I dare not repeat here. I also know my teacher is getting really tired of explaining it to me. Just keep thinking there must be some deeper reason for them that I don't understand.

Top
#1975922 - 10/19/12 08:08 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 13440
Loc: Canada
When a musician sight reads fluidly and fast, he may remember the accidental on into the next measure even if it has been cancelled. So a quick view of the courtesy accidental helps this fast reader note what has been cancelled and what hasn't. It has something to do with the reading process. Sometimes they are placed in parentheses like this (#).

I used to hate courtesy accidentals because I felt something needed to be changed, when it was actually telling me that the notes stayed the same (as in the signature).

Top
#1975951 - 10/19/12 08:41 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
LadyChen Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 521
Loc: Canada
I appreciate courtesy accidentals, but I do prefer if they are indicated in parentheses, as Keystring mentioned.

Top
#1975953 - 10/19/12 08:45 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
Nikolas Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 6351
Loc: UK
A courtesy accidental can have two main points behind it:

* To repeat an accidental mid bar, in case someone forgot. This makes sense, but doesn't need a parenthesis really. It's just there and even if it was a 'real' accidental it's still be working the same way.

* To cancel (with a natural) in the next bar an accidental, just in case someone forgets to cancel that. Again, what the natural does is clear, despite being in parenthesis or not.

I don't like parenthesis, but I do feel a need for courtesy accidentals in more complicated scores.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1976555 - 10/21/12 01:14 AM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: keystring]
SoundThumb Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 421
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: keystring
When a musician sight reads fluidly and fast, he may remember the accidental on into the next measure even if it has been cancelled. So a quick view of the courtesy accidental helps this fast reader note what has been cancelled and what hasn't. It has something to do with the reading process.


Thanks, this is what I suspected. Now I just have to figure out what makes only certain places in the score a special case in which a good sight reader might need a reminder verses the many other places in which no reminder is included.

Top
#1976564 - 10/21/12 01:39 AM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: SoundThumb]
Nikolas Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 6351
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: SoundThumb
Thanks, this is what I suspected. Now I just have to figure out what makes only certain places in the score a special case in which a good sight reader might need a reminder verses the many other places in which no reminder is included.
Harmony mostly, or very similar patterns and chords...

And, of course, highly chromatic/atonal/weird works! wink

I just put courtesy naturals every next bar, in order to cancel the previous one and remind the performer of that, especially since I rarely use key signatures to begin with... Naturals are there ONLY as courtesy accidentals.

And I also use them in chords where both C# and C natural can be found (in the same chord), in which case I put the natural to avoid any kind of confusion.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
Italy Members - Please Check In
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
(ad)
Calculator Looks Like Piano Keyboard
Calculator that looks like a piano keyboard
Piano Keyboard Calculator

New in the Piano World online store (PianoSupplies.com) now.
(ad)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Helping you become a better player
(ad)
Teaching Children Music
Teaching Music to Children
(ads)
PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Internet Sources for Easy/Intermediate Piano and Violin
by JFDilmando
08/29/16 01:44 PM
Hippies on a Corner - Joe Sample
by JFDilmando
08/29/16 01:27 PM
Tuning Simulator
by Robert Scott
08/29/16 01:01 PM
Bechstein 5'9"
by Works1
08/29/16 12:39 PM
Best scanner for iPhone/iPad
by ShiroKuro
08/29/16 12:21 PM
Forum Stats
84,810 Registered Members
44 Forums
174,827 Topics
2,551,355 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission