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#1975299 - 10/18/12 04:43 PM sharps, flats and naturals....
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 1124
Loc: pagosa springs,co
I find it very annoying to explain to students when they are entered in incorrect places....ie....across a bar line....arghhh!

rada

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#1975546 - 10/19/12 07:39 AM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3338
Loc: Virginia, USA
On the other hand, there are many places where the so-called "courtesy" accidental avoids a LOT of trouble.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1975893 - 10/19/12 07:10 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
SoundThumb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 357
Loc: San Diego, CA
So these things are called "courtesy" accidentals? As a beginning student they have caused me no end of confusion and I have used a lot of names for them, most of which I dare not repeat here. I also know my teacher is getting really tired of explaining it to me. Just keep thinking there must be some deeper reason for them that I don't understand.

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#1975922 - 10/19/12 08:08 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 12124
Loc: Canada
When a musician sight reads fluidly and fast, he may remember the accidental on into the next measure even if it has been cancelled. So a quick view of the courtesy accidental helps this fast reader note what has been cancelled and what hasn't. It has something to do with the reading process. Sometimes they are placed in parentheses like this (#).

I used to hate courtesy accidentals because I felt something needed to be changed, when it was actually telling me that the notes stayed the same (as in the signature).

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#1975951 - 10/19/12 08:41 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
LadyChen Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 521
Loc: Canada
I appreciate courtesy accidentals, but I do prefer if they are indicated in parentheses, as Keystring mentioned.

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#1975953 - 10/19/12 08:45 PM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: rada]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5641
Loc: Europe
A courtesy accidental can have two main points behind it:

* To repeat an accidental mid bar, in case someone forgot. This makes sense, but doesn't need a parenthesis really. It's just there and even if it was a 'real' accidental it's still be working the same way.

* To cancel (with a natural) in the next bar an accidental, just in case someone forgets to cancel that. Again, what the natural does is clear, despite being in parenthesis or not.

I don't like parenthesis, but I do feel a need for courtesy accidentals in more complicated scores.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1976555 - 10/21/12 01:14 AM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: keystring]
SoundThumb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 357
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: keystring
When a musician sight reads fluidly and fast, he may remember the accidental on into the next measure even if it has been cancelled. So a quick view of the courtesy accidental helps this fast reader note what has been cancelled and what hasn't. It has something to do with the reading process.


Thanks, this is what I suspected. Now I just have to figure out what makes only certain places in the score a special case in which a good sight reader might need a reminder verses the many other places in which no reminder is included.

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#1976564 - 10/21/12 01:39 AM Re: sharps, flats and naturals.... [Re: SoundThumb]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5641
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: SoundThumb
Thanks, this is what I suspected. Now I just have to figure out what makes only certain places in the score a special case in which a good sight reader might need a reminder verses the many other places in which no reminder is included.
Harmony mostly, or very similar patterns and chords...

And, of course, highly chromatic/atonal/weird works! wink

I just put courtesy naturals every next bar, in order to cancel the previous one and remind the performer of that, especially since I rarely use key signatures to begin with... Naturals are there ONLY as courtesy accidentals.

And I also use them in chords where both C# and C natural can be found (in the same chord), in which case I put the natural to avoid any kind of confusion.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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