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#1979581 - 10/28/12 07:57 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
RonTuner Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1658
Loc: Chicagoland
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
I've heard that also. Mine's drug-induced; it was a side-effect of an antibiotic I was given in 1992.

Until a few years ago, I was sure I'd never tune another piano, until Ron Koval taught me the method I use now. I know for a fact I'm twice the tuner I was before.

I owe him an eternal debt of gratitude.

smile




Aw, shucks blush - dinner and drinks would do...

RK
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
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#1979615 - 10/28/12 10:40 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: RonTuner]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2381
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: RonTuner
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
I've heard that also. Mine's drug-induced; it was a side-effect of an antibiotic I was given in 1992.

Until a few years ago, I was sure I'd never tune another piano, until Ron Koval taught me the method I use now. I know for a fact I'm twice the tuner I was before.

I owe him an eternal debt of gratitude.

smile




Aw, shucks blush - dinner and drinks would do...

RK


Anytime we're in each other's neck of the woods, baby!
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2092597 - 05/31/13 01:57 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2381
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Dredging up this subject...

I've found that, since I began with the district and my volume of work has skyrocketed, my hearing seems to be getting into shape a little. I can divine what I'm hearing a lot faster, and it now takes more like five or six pianos in close succession to tire out my hearing.

Anyone else experience anything similar?
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2092609 - 05/31/13 02:15 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7540
Loc: France
Sorry, I have nothing to add there. My customers, and myself are not tired-disturbed by the tone when I tune (usually) That even surprise me.


Edited by Olek (05/31/13 02:27 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2092625 - 05/31/13 03:15 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: London, England
I get physically tired well before any hearing tiredness.
Come to think of it, I don't know what tired ears feels or sounds like.
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2092628 - 05/31/13 03:23 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: rxd]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7540
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: rxd
I get physically tired well before any hearing tiredness.
Come to think of it, I don't know what tired ears feels or sounds like.


I was about to say something similar but not sure it would be understood.

I seem not to "listen" sometime, making more efforts on the physical aspects than on some "listening". the justness, I "know" where it is, no much brain exercise on that part (anyway I do not have much brain left so it is better that way)

But it happened some (far !) long time ago, I can understand that.

That give me the right to say one can "listen differently" even if some do not seem to understand what it mean

BTW I don't know if you have used some ETD but I suspect it may be more "tiring" for the ears to tune with those (or to use them always). I am unsure of the cause, however.

Tuning together with noise exposure is tiring, but more for the brain than for the ears I suppose.

But I recall when I was younger (about 30) and I came home, did not wish to hear the TV or even to listen to music.

HA HA ! as we all hear less with age, that should certainly be the cause is not it ? !!!


Edited by Olek (05/31/13 03:40 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2095613 - 06/04/13 10:05 PM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
As an aural tuner, I do 3 a day(4 max) It's not that it's tough on the hearing, but it's exhausting mentally to listen with laser like focus.
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

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#2095636 - 06/04/13 10:44 PM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: Gary Fowler]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2381
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted By: Gary Fowler
As an aural tuner, I do 3 a day(4 max) It's not that it's tough on the hearing, but it's exhausting mentally to listen with laser like focus.


I think that's what was divined in this thread; that it's really the mental fatigue that's at play.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2095896 - 06/05/13 01:21 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: Gary Fowler]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7540
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Gary Fowler
As an aural tuner, I do 3 a day(4 max) It's not that it's tough on the hearing, but it's exhausting mentally to listen with laser like focus.


That changed when I learned to appreciate the tone structure, as the precision remain high but attention can be given more to the pin and wire than to the tone. Listening then is as natural as singing or speaking, can get tiring if working in really noisy circumstances , but I stopped to be overhauled by tone as I was (this is really tiring in the end)

I would describe that as listening to the tone projection mostly, then refining the top of the spectra.

When I am "tuning" the tuning pin, the wire is easy probably, in comparison.

Dealing with the tone structure, we are way less annoyed by poorly sounding pianos, also, and can more easily give them the illusion of having a decent tone (some fast voicing included).






Edited by Olek (06/05/13 01:22 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2096652 - 06/06/13 12:16 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1969
Loc: Philadelphia area
I know a pianist who takes an unusually large amount of time between songs even when he's performing. I asked him why, he replied, "It is important that I empty my ears of the last piece before I move on to the next piece."

We both laughed.

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#2097729 - 06/07/13 09:49 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7540
Loc: France
Actually not so untrue, there is an horrible joke you can make to the orchestra when you see them in the morning, an it is to whisle a very intrusive tune from an advertising, or whatever very popular and well known tune...

When you meet them in the afternoon some are saying they had the tune in the ear all the day ...

I am diabolic !!

P.S "Nespresso" music would do it perfectly, if you wish to try.



Edited by Olek (06/07/13 09:50 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


Top
#2097766 - 06/07/13 10:48 AM Re: Hearing "Saturation?" [Re: OperaTenor]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7540
Loc: France
"musical listening" is not always the way the tuner is listening.

That is creating a lot of fatigue.

I guess you call the other way "global listening" .

This is how tuning can stay something natural, and simpler.

If not the numerous partial matches that superposes make it really hard for the ear.
It may sound strange at first to avoid listening precisely at only one precise level, but I believe that is how the actual young tuners learn to listen, then they have no real tone quality problem and can focus to the wire and the pin.

The partial match, is true, and cover something real, sound like a nice simplification, but they oblige to listen in anon musical way, so the tone loose its reality, and the tuner is surprised to hear his tuning in the end, while he should not (only the difference due to the distance should be audible).



Edited by Olek (06/07/13 10:50 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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