|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
65 members (aphexdisklavier, bobrunyan, anotherscott, AaronSF, apianostudent, beeboss, brdwyguy, benkeys, 14 invisible),
2,188
guests, and
386
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
You're not alone, with the tinnitus either. You mean I'm not the only deaf piano tuner??? If I hadn't mentioned it before, mine's drug-induced, a side-effect of the antibiotic gentamicin. If a doctor ever wants to give it to you, to switch to a different med. My ears have been ringing continuously since 1992.
Last edited by OperaTenor; 10/24/12 07:01 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,870
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,870 |
Jim, hope you are still following this.. Two specific ideas: 1. Earplugs - high quality, musicians' type - like the ones found at www.etymotic.com I tried the custom ones first, but like the cheaper ones better! I have small ear canals, so I use the blue ones. Earplugs are to tuning as a good pair of sunglasses are to driving in the full sun... They help reduce the overload of information, while allowing us to focus on what is needed. 1. ETD Yeah, I know... this is a tough one for a lot of folks. Blah dee blah dee blah about all the pros and cons... Using one allows the tech to "live in the unison" for a bulk of the time, or even all of the time if you gain control of the best software. Reduces a bunch of listening strain. By using these two suggestions, the limiting factor for bulk tuning becomes more physical, which can be helped by stretching or some yoga between pianos. Of course, staying focused remains a challenge, as always! 18 is my max for one day at the college, only because I had to stop to meet up people for dinner. I'm sure I could have cranked out some more. (The next day, I wasn't worth much - I quit after 9!) That was over 10 years ago, not sure I could do that again... Ron Koval
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
I find ear plugs just make the ringing louder.
There aren't enough hours in one day, given my other responsibilities for me to even think about tuning that many pianos. :hair:
I'm still wrapping my brain around Tunelab...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671 |
Dan:
You have said this before and I doubt it is true. The ear is a sensory organ. What muscles are you talking about? He's right. The ER doctor told me this when I had Bell's Palsy. Closing the shower door sounded to my right ear like someone fired an M16 from a foot away. He explained that muscles in the ear are paralyzed and not responding the way they normally would.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,870
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,870 |
I find ear plugs just make the ringing louder.
Yup, but when you are at the piano, can you focus on the notes through the ringing? As I concentrate and move the notes, the ringing becomes just background to ignore. Kindof like working with false beats; while you move the string notice what changes - focus on that and not the stuff that doesn't change.... Mine might be much less than yours - constant blend of notes up around 14k or so - most bothersome when I'm somewhere quiet. Ron Koval
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667 |
Jim,
I differentiate between hyperacusis and tinnitus. As you might know, hyperacusis is hypersensitivity to sounds while tinnitus is non-real noise generated and/or perceived inside the ear/brain.
When my hyperacusis was bad, last year, I found that piano playing and tuning was one of the worst forms of sound to endure, and that it lead to premature "saturation". So I started using musician's earplugs. This gave my hyperacusis a bit of a break - but as you say, at the expense of increased tinnitus. The plugs definitely cut out a significant part of high frequencies, and my impression is that the brain starts "hunting" for them by turning up its "gain" even more. Hence the tinnitus becomes worse.
Initially, I wore the plugs very often, even while driving and going to the shops, but after having made the above connection with increased tinnitus, I now try to avoid the plugs whenever possible. I only ever wear them when I know that I'll be exposed to high sound levels for prolonged periods, e.g. tuning.
BTW, my tinnitus is a broad-band "white hiss" of about 12-15 kHz.
Autodidact interested in piano technology. 1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker. 1977 "Ortega" 8' + 8' harpsichord (Rainer Schütze, Heidelberg)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481 |
I have the ringing also but have learned to ignore it when tuning. A pink noise machine at night helps deal with it when things are normally quiet. One study I read about tinnitus indicated 84 percent to 92 percent of those with tinnitus also have hyperinsulinemia, a sugar metabolism disorder. A diet similar to what diabetics use can help a lot. It has worked for me and the ringing is just faint background now....in the past it used to be like a siren blaring.
Piano Technician George Brown College /85 Niagara Region
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
I've heard that also. Mine's drug-induced; it was a side-effect of an antibiotic I was given in 1992. Until a few years ago, I was sure I'd never tune another piano, until Ron Koval taught me the method I use now. I know for a fact I'm twice the tuner I was before. I owe him an eternal debt of gratitude.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,427
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,427 |
The wikipedia article on Auditory Fatigue gives good information about this issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_fatigue
Learner
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,870
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,870 |
I've heard that also. Mine's drug-induced; it was a side-effect of an antibiotic I was given in 1992. Until a few years ago, I was sure I'd never tune another piano, until Ron Koval taught me the method I use now. I know for a fact I'm twice the tuner I was before. I owe him an eternal debt of gratitude. Aw, shucks - dinner and drinks would do... RK
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
I've heard that also. Mine's drug-induced; it was a side-effect of an antibiotic I was given in 1992. Until a few years ago, I was sure I'd never tune another piano, until Ron Koval taught me the method I use now. I know for a fact I'm twice the tuner I was before. I owe him an eternal debt of gratitude. Aw, shucks - dinner and drinks would do... RK Anytime we're in each other's neck of the woods, baby!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
Dredging up this subject...
I've found that, since I began with the district and my volume of work has skyrocketed, my hearing seems to be getting into shape a little. I can divine what I'm hearing a lot faster, and it now takes more like five or six pianos in close succession to tire out my hearing.
Anyone else experience anything similar?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230 |
Sorry, I have nothing to add there. My customers, and myself are not tired-disturbed by the tone when I tune (usually) That even surprise me.
Last edited by Olek; 05/31/13 02:27 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571 |
I get physically tired well before any hearing tiredness. Come to think of it, I don't know what tired ears feels or sounds like.
Amanda Reckonwith Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England. "in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230 |
I get physically tired well before any hearing tiredness. Come to think of it, I don't know what tired ears feels or sounds like. I was about to say something similar but not sure it would be understood. I seem not to "listen" sometime, making more efforts on the physical aspects than on some "listening". the justness, I "know" where it is, no much brain exercise on that part (anyway I do not have much brain left so it is better that way) But it happened some (far !) long time ago, I can understand that. That give me the right to say one can "listen differently" even if some do not seem to understand what it mean BTW I don't know if you have used some ETD but I suspect it may be more "tiring" for the ears to tune with those (or to use them always). I am unsure of the cause, however. Tuning together with noise exposure is tiring, but more for the brain than for the ears I suppose. But I recall when I was younger (about 30) and I came home, did not wish to hear the TV or even to listen to music. HA HA ! as we all hear less with age, that should certainly be the cause is not it ? !!!
Last edited by Olek; 05/31/13 03:40 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 376
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 376 |
As an aural tuner, I do 3 a day(4 max) It's not that it's tough on the hearing, but it's exhausting mentally to listen with laser like focus.
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,562 |
As an aural tuner, I do 3 a day(4 max) It's not that it's tough on the hearing, but it's exhausting mentally to listen with laser like focus. I think that's what was divined in this thread; that it's really the mental fatigue that's at play.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230 |
As an aural tuner, I do 3 a day(4 max) It's not that it's tough on the hearing, but it's exhausting mentally to listen with laser like focus. That changed when I learned to appreciate the tone structure, as the precision remain high but attention can be given more to the pin and wire than to the tone. Listening then is as natural as singing or speaking, can get tiring if working in really noisy circumstances , but I stopped to be overhauled by tone as I was (this is really tiring in the end) I would describe that as listening to the tone projection mostly, then refining the top of the spectra. When I am "tuning" the tuning pin, the wire is easy probably, in comparison. Dealing with the tone structure, we are way less annoyed by poorly sounding pianos, also, and can more easily give them the illusion of having a decent tone (some fast voicing included).
Last edited by Olek; 06/05/13 01:22 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,925
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,925 |
I know a pianist who takes an unusually large amount of time between songs even when he's performing. I asked him why, he replied, "It is important that I empty my ears of the last piece before I move on to the next piece."
We both laughed.
"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,408
Posts3,349,457
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|