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#1980849 - 10/31/12 08:47 AM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: James Carney]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2057
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
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David the problem of contaminated taper seats in machinery is one that is carefully avoided in better manufacturing companies. When I worked for Magna for example, no air hoses were allowed near the spindle for cleaning or during a tool change operation. Softer metal chips like brass/bronze/aluminum/CRS have a tendency to stick to the harder shanks and tapers when driven against each other.
Too many folks don't fully understand the cost involved in making super high quality tools, even things like simple drill bits. My complete letter/number drill bit set manufactured by Sheffield cost over $500 20 years ago. The same assortment of bits can also be bought for $49 from china, or for any cost in between by other manufacturers. My bits were used every day for numerous years, drilling alloy steels and materials much tougher than wood and they still work like the day i got them, provided that they are sharpened correctly when needed. If one needs to purchase a new bit after drilling one or even a dozen pin blocks, you have an inferior tool to begin with.
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Piano Technician George Brown College /85 Niagara Region
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#1980901 - 10/31/12 11:47 AM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: Gene Nelson]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3516
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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Going for a new block I would recommend the hybrid, designed by Ron Nossaman. A custom 9mm Dilignit cap (not bridge capping or pin block material) on a standard multi-lam block. Gene, what is the difference between Delignit pin block and bridge cap material and the pin block capping stock? Does it have a specific name?
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#1980921 - 10/31/12 12:56 PM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: James Carney]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1329
Loc: Old Hangtown California
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Jurgen, it appears that there may be more laminations than the bridge capping material, I count 7 on this 9mm cap but I do not have any other Dilignit material here to compare. If memory serves, Ron has specified what he wants and Dilignit makes it for him, so there may be more to it than just laminations.
David: Now if only the tuning pin manufacturers would true up their tooling the way that you do we would not be forced to deal with tuning pins that vary in diameter by several thousandths or that are oblong.
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RPT PTG Member
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#1980933 - 10/31/12 01:17 PM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: Gene Nelson]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3516
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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...If memory serves, Ron has specified what he wants and Dilignit makes it for him, so there may be more to it than just laminations. Speaking from a bit of experience, I can't see one person being able to order enough to come anywhere near a minimum factory order. They usually ask if you want a twenty foot or a forty foot container full.  The material must be available somewhere.
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#1980957 - 10/31/12 02:09 PM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: Gene Nelson]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 3724
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
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Now if only the tuning pin manufacturers would true up their tooling the way that you do we would not be forced to deal with tuning pins that vary in diameter by several thousandths or that are oblong.
I have found that Diamond or Bienne pins have less of this symptom. One of those brands used to be Fly Brand but I can’t recall which one.
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#1980984 - 10/31/12 03:14 PM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: James Carney]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2057
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
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Jurgen, the only pins I know of with the Japanese-Indian connection is the Nippon Denro which is presently owned and run by Ispat Industries. I believe Hitachi originally set them up with the steel rolling process and another large Japanese firm collaberated but that was over 20 years ago. I still see numerous suppliers of the Nippon Denro pins in the U.S. state in their advertising "Manufactured in Japan". although the pin quality is decent (ie. not great). I highly doubt the Indians are subcontracting out to Japan for something like this. I've used them for years in anything but a really high quality piano.
_________________________
Piano Technician George Brown College /85 Niagara Region
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#1980993 - 10/31/12 03:37 PM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: James Carney]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1329
Loc: Old Hangtown California
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Jurgen, I trust your experinece and I trust Ron, however I do not know much about Ron's business. For what it is worth, I measured the laminations on Dilignit block material at 8 in 9mm and Ron's capping material at 7 in 9mm. Maybe somebody out there has some Dilignit bridge capping material that they can measure?
_________________________
RPT PTG Member
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#1981091 - 10/31/12 07:59 PM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: Emmery]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 1569
Loc: Maine
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David the problem of contaminated taper seats in machinery is one that is carefully avoided in better manufacturing companies. When I worked for Magna for example, no air hoses were allowed near the spindle for cleaning or during a tool change operation. Softer metal chips like brass/bronze/aluminum/CRS have a tendency to stick to the harder shanks and tapers when driven against each other.
Too many folks don't fully understand the cost involved in making super high quality tools, even things like simple drill bits. My complete letter/number drill bit set manufactured by Sheffield cost over $500 20 years ago. The same assortment of bits can also be bought for $49 from china, or for any cost in between by other manufacturers. My bits were used every day for numerous years, drilling alloy steels and materials much tougher than wood and they still work like the day i got them, provided that they are sharpened correctly when needed. If one needs to purchase a new bit after drilling one or even a dozen pin blocks, you have an inferior tool to begin with. The drill press came from Taiwan as I recall, and the neighbor said about the same thing you did. Ya gets what ya pays fur!
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#1981179 - 11/01/12 12:19 AM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: Silverwood Pianos]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2057
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
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I always felt that Denro pins had too much twist.
Never noticed this myself, but I haven't put them up side to side beside some better pins to make a better call on that. I replaced 4 pins on a 5 year old chinese import piano a while back and the wire I took off them had left shallow groove on the surface at the bottom of the coil and a small notch in the edge of the becket hole. Don't usually see this even on the old N.A. upright tuning pins I pull that are 10 times older.
_________________________
Piano Technician George Brown College /85 Niagara Region
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#1981193 - 11/01/12 01:43 AM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: James Carney]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3062
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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I'm not a fan of Denro pins. Diamond pins are far superior.
_________________________
Verhnjak PianosSpecializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance of Fine Heirloom Pianos Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos www.pianoman.ca Verhnjak Pianos Facebook
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#1981195 - 11/01/12 01:48 AM
Re: Using varnish when restringing
[Re: Rod Verhnjak]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1060
Loc: Michigan
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I'm not a fan of Denro pins. Diamond pins are far superior. I agree. 
_________________________
Keith Akins, RPT USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
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