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#1979935 - 10/29/12 01:59 AM 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner?
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
My nominee: Scott Joplin

Judging from my time here, I think that's an easy call.

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#1979937 - 10/29/12 02:09 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Offline
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Registered: 05/25/12
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I don't care what anyone says; Scott Joplin was a genius.

EDIT:

You know what, Mark? You might as well change the name of this thread to "Scott Joplin Appreciation Thread" because I (and others, I hope) am about to share like there's no tomorrow.

Here's me playing the famous Maple Leaf Rag a few years ago before I discovered classical music (or even how to read music). This was recorded on a pretty bad piano so I'm sorry about the tone.

Here are some less well-known Joplin rags that I'd like to share too:

The following rags are performed by Cory Hall, AKA BachScholar on YouTube.

Euphonic Sounds

The Cascades

Country Club

A Breeze from Alabama

Original Rags

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To each his own.

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#1979938 - 10/29/12 02:16 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
TrueMusic Offline
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Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 254
Loc: San Diego, California
Joplin is wonderful.

I haven't heard a single discussion about respighi here, but noturno, his preludes on gregorian themes, and a few others whose names are escaping me are brilliant.
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Chopin op. 23
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#1979977 - 10/29/12 06:18 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Offline
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One reason Scott Joplin isn't discussed much at the Pianist Corner is most don't consider him a classical composer. He's discussed a lot more on the Non Classical Forum.

I find most of his music boring and four square compared to composers like Jelly Roll Morton, James P. Johnson, Fats Waller, Gershwin, Tatum, and other great stride or jazz pianists. I like William Bolcom's Rags more than the ones by Joplin.


Edited by pianoloverus (10/29/12 06:46 AM)

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#1979985 - 10/29/12 06:59 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
bennevis Online   content
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Louis Moreau Gottschalk.

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#1980025 - 10/29/12 09:44 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Pogorelich. Offline
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How about Medtner?
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#1980044 - 10/29/12 11:07 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Derulux Offline
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I would have to say Chopin.. wink
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#1980053 - 10/29/12 11:54 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
tomasino Offline
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Registered: 03/24/05
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Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Rzewski

Tomasino
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#1980056 - 10/29/12 12:07 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: JoelW]
Plowboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: mazurkajoe

Here's me playing the famous Maple Leaf Rag a few years ago before I discovered classical music


IIRC, Joplin considered his rags to be a classical form.

Most neglected composer? Henri Herz! Though his "marriage" to La Paiva may be more interesting than his music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Paiva
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#1980128 - 10/29/12 03:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: tomasino]
DanS Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: tomasino
Rzewski


+1

I can't say who's neglected here, since I just joined yesterday, but I do wish people played more Rzewski. I love his 4 pieces from 1977 (or maybe 1978).

Lyapunov too. He has a lot of good pieces (but a lot of duds too).
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"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#1980129 - 10/29/12 03:18 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Plowboy]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Plowboy
....Most neglected composer? Henri Herz!

Most neglected GREAT composer. ha

But I love seeing any mention anywhere of composers like Herz.

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#1980131 - 10/29/12 03:18 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: DanS]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: DanS
I can't say who's neglected here, since I just joined yesterday....

Yesterday??
I swear, it seems like you're a veteran already. smile

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#1980154 - 10/29/12 04:03 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Hehe, Joplin and I share a birthday.

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#1980158 - 10/29/12 04:11 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Orange Soda King]
beet31425 Offline
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Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Hehe, Joplin and I share a birthday.


Richard Strauss and I share a birthday.

Samuel Barber and my sister share a birthday.

A pair of perhaps mildly underrated composers on these forums.

-J
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#1980169 - 10/29/12 04:30 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Orange Soda King]
Mark_C Offline
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Hehe, Joplin and I share a birthday.

Nice job! grin

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#1980185 - 10/29/12 05:21 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: beet31425]
fledgehog Offline
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Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 273
Loc: West Hartford, CT
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Hehe, Joplin and I share a birthday.


Richard Strauss and I share a birthday.

Samuel Barber and my sister share a birthday.

A pair of perhaps mildly underrated composers on these forums.

-J


I came into this thread to mention the Strauss piano sonata! Don't think I've ever seen it mentioned here. Glenn Gould plays an exquisite interpretation of it.

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#1980200 - 10/29/12 05:52 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
ScriabinAddict Offline
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Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 322
I think Lyapunov, Liadov, Bortkiewicz, Mednter, Moszkowski, and Henselt could certainly use more attention. All of whom I consider to be first rate composers. (I would include Alkan, but it seems like he gets a lot of attention around here.)


Edited by ScriabinAddict (10/30/12 01:06 AM)

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#1980213 - 10/29/12 06:35 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
....Most neglected composer? Henri Herz!

Most neglected GREAT composer. ha

But I love seeing any mention anywhere of composers like Herz.


There is a reason some composers generate little sustained interest, and sometimes the reason just Herz.
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#1980232 - 10/29/12 07:09 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
DanS Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 470
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: DanS
I can't say who's neglected here, since I just joined yesterday....

Yesterday??
I swear, it seems like you're a veteran already. smile


Thanks! I do love to hear myself type blush
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"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#1980234 - 10/29/12 07:15 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
dolce sfogato Offline
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Lyapunov/Ljapoenoff/Liapunov it must be, he wrote 12 études d'ex.tr. (op.11) to follow up Liszt's 12, and did a good job: truly Lisztian in scope and difficulty, but very russian at that, and he wrote a wonderful sonata (op.27), based on the architecture of Liszt but, as in the études, he built a Russian Orthodox cathedral on the Lisztian example, the first really russian sounding sonata ever, really! Some good variationworks, a darling sonatina, why isn't he played more often: it's hard, and to go through that much trouble, well, most prefer the well known names, let's do the whole 'chopin/schumann/liszt/rachmaninoff/etc' rep. It might be a good idea to be adventurous and just try, and also play Medtner, and Glazunov, and Alkan, and Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky, but don't forget Lyapunov!
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#1980345 - 10/29/12 11:14 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Piano*Dad]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2173
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
....Most neglected composer? Henri Herz!

Most neglected GREAT composer. ha

But I love seeing any mention anywhere of composers like Herz.


There is a reason some composers generate little sustained interest, and sometimes the reason just Herz.



Now really, was that called for? laugh
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Gary Schenk

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#1980374 - 10/30/12 01:05 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7431
Zez Confrey (since this appears to be "that" sort of thread).

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#1980394 - 10/30/12 03:06 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
BDB Offline
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Originally Posted By: wr
Zez Confrey (since this appears to be "that" sort of thread).


One of two great American composers from Peru, although not from the same one!
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#1980396 - 10/30/12 03:26 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4161
Originally Posted By: wr
Zez Confrey (since this appears to be "that" sort of thread).




I was going to mention him but decided not to for some reason.

I really like his Three Little Oddities.
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To each his own.

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#1980409 - 10/30/12 05:21 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Foxes Offline
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Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 36
Le Monte Young is kinda forgotten anywhere I go, I'm not a "fan" but I recognise the contribution. Something should be said for a 5 hour long piano grind.

A lot of modern composers get snubbed for not being academic or artsy enough.

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#1980411 - 10/30/12 05:25 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Foxes]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7431
Originally Posted By: Foxes
Le Monte Young is kinda forgotten anywhere I go, I'm not a "fan" but I recognise the contribution. Something should be said for a 5 hour long piano grind.

A lot of modern composers get snubbed for not being academic or artsy enough.


And then there are all the modern composers who get snubbed for being too academic or artsy. Can't win, unless dead for a over a century, and even then, it's dicey.



Edited by wr (10/30/12 05:29 AM)

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#1980438 - 10/30/12 08:20 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
HNB Offline
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Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 73
Loc: Australia
Enrique Granados.

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#1980441 - 10/30/12 08:39 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: HNB]
worov Offline
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Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 109
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How come that Villa-Lobos hasn't been mentionned yet ?

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#1980468 - 10/30/12 10:11 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: worov]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6040
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: worov
How come that Villa-Lobos hasn't been mentionned yet ?

Because he's the most "neglected" great piano composer on Pianist Corner.... grin
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#1980653 - 10/30/12 06:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Plowboy]
Piano*Dad Offline
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Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10297
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
Originally Posted By: Piano*Dad
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Plowboy
....Most neglected composer? Henri Herz!

Most neglected GREAT composer. ha

But I love seeing any mention anywhere of composers like Herz.


There is a reason some composers generate little sustained interest, and sometimes the reason just Herz.



Now really, was that called for? laugh


Yes indeed! When the thread topic is this vague, it's my duty to start Messiaen around. Otherwise we could be at it till the end of time.
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Grotrian 192 #156455

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#1980661 - 10/30/12 06:41 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
wr Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7431
Off the top of my head, here's a list of composers who have written some fine piano music who rarely get mentioned here, if ever, and if they do, it's in a list such as this:

Kenneth Leighton
Harold Shapero
Boris Blacher
Douglas Lilburn
Boris Tishchencko
Roger Sessions
Vincent Persichetti
Ernst Toch
Johann Nepomuk Hummel
Ignaz Moscheles
Ignaz Freidman
Ernest Krenek
Max Reger
Vincent d'Indy
Jean Françaix
André Jolivet
Arthur Honegger
Paul Hindemith
Frank Martin
Boris Tchaikovsky
Mozart Camargo Guarnieri (his dad named all the kids after a composer he loved!)
Joaquin Nin-Culmell
Igor Markevitch
Bedřich Smetana
Sigrid Karg-Elert
Nikolai Myaskovsky
Grażyna Bacewicz
Rodion Shchedrin
Charles Koechlin
Valentin Silvestrov

...and there's a great number more who don't come to mind right now. Even relatively well-known composers of piano music like Poulenc hardly ever come up for discussion here.

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#1980672 - 10/30/12 07:12 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Cheeto717 Offline
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I feel like Prokofiev doesn't come up as often as he should. I'll also second Granados...a great favorite of mine.
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Working On:
Bach: Partita No. 6
Beethoven: Op. 26
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#1980687 - 10/30/12 07:59 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
BDB Offline
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I think one may be here:

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Semipro Tech

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#1980702 - 10/30/12 08:50 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2173
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
Ligeti
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#1980757 - 10/30/12 11:20 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4161
Originally Posted By: wr

[...]

Boris Tchaikovsky

[...]


What an unfortunate last name.
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To each his own.

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#1980806 - 10/31/12 04:16 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Cheeto717]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7431
Originally Posted By: Cheeto717
I feel like Prokofiev doesn't come up as often as he should.


And, considering how many versions there are of some of his works, it is surprising there are some others that are hardly represented at all. I've been working on a cool piece of his called "Paysage" (or "Landscape"), from his op. 59. My edition has a typo in the metronome marking, so I thought I would check on YouTube to see what tempo others were taking for it. And I was amazed that I could only find one single performance of it. Fortunately for my needs, it was from a recognized and expert Prokofiev pianist - Richter.

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#1980807 - 10/31/12 04:32 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 565
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Cheeto717
I feel like Prokofiev doesn't come up as often as he should.


And, considering how many versions there are of some of his works, it is surprising there are some others that are hardly represented at all.


You could say the same about Liszt. So many terrific works that are hardly mentioned.

As for the OP, I think Amy Beach deserves a mention.


Edited by pianojosh23 (10/31/12 04:36 AM)

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#1980865 - 10/31/12 09:44 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Ridicolosamente Offline
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Registered: 07/08/08
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I wonder if Mark was facetious in throwing in "great" in the title. Such a title would assume that we can only pick from the accepted 15 or 20 "greats".

Otherwise it obviously turns into either 1) who's your favorite composer of the moment that's not Bach/Chopin/Rachmaninoff... or 2) who do you wish you heard a lot more regularly on Sirius/XM or your local classical station, even though they didn't create 25 Variations on a theme by Handel, or a suite inspired by Iberia or something... smile


I'll nominate Carl Vine. Besides everyone jumping at the chance to recommend a new listener to his Piano Sonata No 1, does anyone ever actually say anything about the work itself? If only Kreisler could post more frequently.... If his music is recommended so frequently, shouldn't people talk about his music more?

3rd sonata anyone? Ok ok fine, there was this, but years later. I was disappointed there wasn't at least feigned interest in his recent concerto premiere.

*crickets* *crickets*


-Daniel
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#1980870 - 10/31/12 10:00 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: DanS]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: DanS
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: DanS
I can't say who's neglected here, since I just joined yesterday....

Yesterday??
I swear, it seems like you're a veteran already. smile


Thanks! I do love to hear myself type blush

that waas a super cute response. Welcome to the forum DanS!
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#1980877 - 10/31/12 10:11 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
Ridicolosamente Offline
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Registered: 07/08/08
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Loc: Miami, Florida, USA
wr, I only know choice works by some of the composers on your list because of invaluable YT contributors like John11 and especially fyrexianoff (I forget now, but I believe he is reincarnated SWMD.)

I haven't even heard of some of them. Any specific recommendations for the ones listed?:
Originally Posted By: wr
Off the top of my head, here's a list of composers who have written some fine piano music who rarely get mentioned here...
Kenneth Leighton
Harold Shapero
Roger Sessions
Ernest Krenek
Arthur Honegger
Igor Markevitch
Sigrid Karg-Elert
Charles Koechlin
...


Originally Posted By: wr
...Even relatively well-known composers of piano music like Poulenc hardly ever come up for discussion here.
I admit I only know Poulenc's two-piano concerto, but I don't understand why I hear it all the time. I don't think it's a great work at all... I cringe from that opening crash and piano flourish. The simple-hommage-to-Classical-wait-no-just-boring Larghetto.. The 3rd movement is the highlight and somewhat catchy and bouncy, but overall, the piece is hardly worth the frequency of performance and airtime that I come across. I don't even own a recording of it and I hear it all the time...

What else by Poulenc is worthwhile?

-Daniel
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Currently working on:
-Dane Rudhyar's Stars from Pentagrams No 3

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#1980882 - 10/31/12 10:25 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Cheeto717 Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 693
Loc: Pennsylvania
I performed the Poulenc sonata for 4 hands. definitely a fun high-energy piece full of funny and quirky moments, but I wouldn't define it as "great". It's also pretty simple in its technical demands if i remember correctly.
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Working On:
Bach: Partita No. 6
Beethoven: Op. 26
Brahms: Op. 120
Chopin: Op. 10

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#1980917 - 10/31/12 12:38 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Ridicolosamente]
bennevis Online   content
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Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4401
Originally Posted By: Ridicolosamente
What else by Poulenc is worthwhile?

-Daniel


Plenty, if you get away from the piano.

His favorite instruments were the voice and woodwind. His Flute Sonata is lovely and so are his songs. And his Concert champêtre (Harpsichord Concerto) and Concerto for organ, strings and timpani are rather more interesting than his Piano Concertos. And his opera Dialogues des carmélites is amazing, complete with guillotine effects as the heads get chopped off one by one.....

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#1980920 - 10/31/12 12:54 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: bennevis]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Concerto for organ, strings and timpani...

That is an incredible piece. I once heard it live at Liverpool Cathedral... almost apocalyptic!

Another Poulenc must-hear would be the Gloria for chorus and orchestra. The choral writing is very clever (and expert), the orchestration positively delectable.
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#1980946 - 10/31/12 01:48 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5918
Loc: St. Louis area
Franz Liszt
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#1980951 - 10/31/12 01:54 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Damon]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4161
Originally Posted By: Damon
Franz Liszt


+1

Someone should make an appreciation thread about him.
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To each his own.

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#1981008 - 10/31/12 05:06 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Ridicolosamente]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ridicolosamente
I wonder if Mark was facetious in throwing in "great" in the title. Such a title would assume that we can only pick from the accepted 15 or 20 "greats"....

Wasn't facetious at all, including because IMO in all such things there's plenty of room for debate on who is 'great' and how many there are, plus just what it means. I realize that many people would dispute calling Joplin great, and also (as Plover noted) that many people don't consider him "classical."

I could see some people feeling that there are only 3 or 4 or 5 "great" piano composers, and others feeling there are 20.....or 50.

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#1981124 - 10/31/12 09:03 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
DanS Offline
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How about Mendelssohn?

I hardly ever hear any mention of Mendelssohn anywhere other than his Songs Without Words.
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#1981233 - 11/01/12 06:44 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Francisco Scalco Offline
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Villa Lobos. I never head his name in this forum, only in this thread. Really people, listen to his lyrical pieces, the Bachianas, "valsa sentimental", "lenda do caboclo"... Or if you're feeling adventurous the "Rudepoema". Masterpieces....
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#1981283 - 11/01/12 09:47 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Ridicolosamente]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ridicolosamente
wr, I only know choice works by some of the composers on your list because of invaluable YT contributors like John11 and especially fyrexianoff (I forget now, but I believe he is reincarnated SWMD.)

I haven't even heard of some of them. Any specific recommendations for the ones listed?:
Originally Posted By: wr
Off the top of my head, here's a list of composers who have written some fine piano music who rarely get mentioned here...
Kenneth Leighton
Harold Shapero
Roger Sessions
Ernest Krenek
Arthur Honegger
Igor Markevitch
Sigrid Karg-Elert
Charles Koechlin
...


Originally Posted By: wr
...Even relatively well-known composers of piano music like Poulenc hardly ever come up for discussion here.
I admit I only know Poulenc's two-piano concerto, but I don't understand why I hear it all the time. I don't think it's a great work at all... I cringe from that opening crash and piano flourish. The simple-hommage-to-Classical-wait-no-just-boring Larghetto.. The 3rd movement is the highlight and somewhat catchy and bouncy, but overall, the piece is hardly worth the frequency of performance and airtime that I come across. I don't even own a recording of it and I hear it all the time...

What else by Poulenc is worthwhile?



Well, to me, Poulenc's 2-piano concerto is wonderful, so I wouldn't know what to hazard as a guess of something his you might think was worthwhile. It's quite possible you just don't care for his particular sensibility. But, if you want to check out some more - I very much like this Trio, for oboe, bassoon, and piano.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0QX-06vco8

His clarinet sonata is excellent, too - a classic of that repertoire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMb_F9GsG8Q

-------------------------

Let's see, about that list -

Kenneth Leighton

There is a variety of piano works from him - sonatas, etudes, concertos, etc. This "Fantastia Contrapuntistica" is impressive, I think (historical note - Pollini gave the premiere performance, back in 1956)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ZIZ0mhc78

Harold Shapero

I love his three neo-classical "amateur" sonatas. I have to say, he certainly had high expectations of amateurs - these are not easy pieces. Here's the first one -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYGrrrhyvqo

Roger Sessions

He made three piano sonatas, the last two being rather tough (at least to me), but rewarding. Here's the second...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjpcgoP_yiY

Ernest Krenek

He was quite prolific, and wrote in a variety of idioms, ranging from the simplest diatonic harmony to hard-core 12-tone stuff, sometimes within the same piece. Here's a fun example that covers quite a bit of ground in terms of tonality - his "George Washington Variations".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d69sv7E0J7Y

Arthur Honegger

There's not a lot of piano music from Honegger. Long ago I got a recording that included his somewhat Stravinsky-ish Concertino, and I like it a lot. It's too bad it isn't heard more often -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeqhKYRV7ug

Igor Markevitch

His story is quite strange - he was becoming widely respected composer, but something happened, and he stopped composing while still fairly young, and went on to have a career as one of the great conductors of the 20th century. His Variations, Fugue and Envoi on a Theme of Handel for piano was his last original composition, and it is, IMO, a masterpiece. There's only one performance on YT that I found and it's frustrating in a couple of ways - one is that it is from a competition and the time bell cuts it off during the fugue. The other is that the sound is pretty murky, and the pianist really deserves much better. But beggars can't be choosers, I guess, so here it it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lHSQopQQbM

Sigrid [sic] Karg-Elert

(That was a typo in the first name, of course.) Karg-Elert is mostly known to the organ world these days, I think, but he wrote other music (my first encounter with his music long ago was through some etudes for solo saxophone, and IIRC, they were pretty interesting). I was thinking of his big, feverishly late-Romantic third piano sonata when I mentioned him, and it turns out I can't find a recording of it on YT at all (but I know it has been recorded). You can find the score at IMSLP, at any rate.

Charles Koechlin

Koechlin was very prolific, and left a good deal of piano music. His Paysages et Marines are fairly representative, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqLdITP6HO0

He's also (rather surprisingly) BBC Radio 3's "Composer of the Week" this week, so you can listen to that daily program (which is available on from their website for a week after it is first broadcast) to get a dose of his other music, and pick up various bits of information about his life.

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#1981305 - 11/01/12 10:49 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Francisco Scalco]
Tim Adrianson Offline
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Certainly agree with you on this one, Francisco! After trying to identify in my own mind composers who wrote a significant body of really good piano music, but are only seldom mentioned in this Forum, three names -- Faure, Medtner, and Villa Lobos -- came to mind. And, of those three, Villa Lobos the least of all, and really by quite a lot. A real shame, because there are some wonderful treasures to be had.

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#1981335 - 11/01/12 01:12 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
bennevis Online   content
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Originally Posted By: wr
Koechlin... and left a good deal of piano music. His Paysages et Marines are fairly representative, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqLdITP6HO0

He's also (rather surprisingly) BBC Radio 3's "Composer of the Week" this week, so you can listen to that daily program (which is available on from their website for a week after it is first broadcast) to get a dose of his other music, and pick up various bits of information about his life.



I've been listening to it all week (because I know very little of his music), and it confirms for me what I've long thought - that French composers of that era - especially 'Les Six' - were most comfortable writing for woodwind, even if they were pianists themselves. Their piano music are often not that interesting - Debussy and Ravel are the exceptions.

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#1981428 - 11/01/12 04:39 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Vid Offline
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#1981469 - 11/01/12 06:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Mr. McFugue Offline
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Shostakovich comes to mind, along with Bartok, Stravinsky, and Schoenberg.

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#1981471 - 11/01/12 06:20 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinAddict Offline
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Nobody mentioned Albéniz yet?
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#1981507 - 11/01/12 07:57 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: JoelW]
Samuel1993 Offline
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Originally Posted By: mazurkajoe
I don't care what anyone says; Scott Joplin was a genius.

EDIT:

You know what, Mark? You might as well change the name of this thread to "Scott Joplin Appreciation Thread" because I (and others, I hope) am about to share like there's no tomorrow.

Here's me playing the famous Maple Leaf Rag a few years ago before I discovered classical music (or even how to read music). This was recorded on a pretty bad piano so I'm sorry about the tone.

Here are some less well-known Joplin rags that I'd like to share too:

The following rags are performed by Cory Hall, AKA BachScholar on YouTube.

Euphonic Sounds

The Cascades

Country Club

A Breeze from Alabama

Original Rags



Agreed! smile Over time, Joplin has become one of my favorite composers along with Mozart, Chopin, Schumann etc.

I believe many people brush him off as "just a Ragtime composer", but Joplin himself treated Ragtime as Classical. He innovated the genre into a form which should be treated the same as Classical. Look at works such as Bethena, Elite Syncopations, Euphonic Sounds, Pineapple Rag, Solace, Wall Street Rag etc, these are works of authentic genius. People also seem to forget this is the guy who wrote TWO Opera's (one of which, unfortunately is lost). His remaining Opera "Treemonisha", only exists in Piano/Vocal format as the orchestration was lost, but it has been orchestrated many times and it gives us a hint as to what it would have sounded like, and it's genius.

It's an absolute tragedy that he passed away so young. Before he died, he was working on a Symphony, Piano Concerto, Orchestrations of "Magnetic" and "Stoptime" Rags - which all remain lost. His final work Magnetic Rag, shows his general music direction and he was beginning to innovate Ragtime. If only his Symphony or Concerto had been finished, I think many more would appreciate his genius.

Another under-rated composer is Joseph Lamb. He composed some of the most beautiful, and intricate Rags without any musical training. I've also read a Biography on him, he sounded like a wonderful man with such a talent.
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#1981511 - 11/01/12 08:07 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
asthecrowflies Offline
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Not sure if Ives counts, since he hardly wrote for piano. but what he wrote was pretty great.

+1 on Rzewski too

and Shostakovich, whose P&Fs i've recently fallen in love with
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#1981539 - 11/01/12 09:44 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
jdw Offline
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I'll put in a word for Joaquin Rodrigo (not that I can play his piano music).
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#1981658 - 11/02/12 08:20 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
Ridicolosamente Offline
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Originally Posted By: wr
Let's see, about that list - ...
Thanks so much for taking the time. I look forward to listening.

-Daniel
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#1981711 - 11/02/12 11:25 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: asthecrowflies]
AldenH Offline
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Originally Posted By: asthecrowflies
Not sure if Ives counts, since he hardly wrote for piano. but what he wrote was pretty great.


Ives was a complete genius, and his vision suits the piano well in a variety of senses. He wasn't massively prolific for the instrument, but "hardly wrote" is misleading: two massive sonatas, a short sonata, multiple etudes... certainly everything except for the Concord Sonata is neglected.

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#1981732 - 11/02/12 11:58 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: AldenH]
asthecrowflies Offline
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Originally Posted By: AldenH
Ives was a complete genius, and his vision suits the piano well in a variety of senses. He wasn't massively prolific for the instrument, but "hardly wrote" is misleading: two massive sonatas, a short sonata, multiple etudes... certainly everything except for the Concord Sonata is neglected.


His piano works are a tiny portion of his oeuvre, but i guess you're right that what he did do was pretty massive. it's like calling Mendelssohn a violin composer though - he didn't write much, but what he did write was pretty substantial.

Some autumn morning music for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-pjG1FQtlY
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#1981760 - 11/02/12 12:52 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
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For sheer profligacy (not just piano music), Niels Viggo Bentzon takes some beating. The BBC broadcasted some of his piano sonatas some time ago, and they aren't bad.

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#1982027 - 11/03/12 12:56 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: bennevis]
Ferdinand Offline
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Should that perhaps be prolificacy?

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#1982152 - 11/03/12 11:30 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Ferdinand]
bennevis Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
Should that perhaps be prolificacy?


You're right: it should be '....profligacy and prolificacy...' grin

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#1982641 - 11/04/12 02:30 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: bennevis]
ronde des sylphes Offline
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I'm pleased to see the number of mentions for Liapunov in this thread: I think it's incomprehensible how neglected his Transcendentals are.

Another neglected composer is Karl Tausig. Not truly a great, but how many are? Plus he died at 29; a great loss to the music world. Here's possibly his most famous original work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbGHoPttwhQ

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#1982778 - 11/04/12 08:35 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: ronde des sylphes]
argerichfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: ronde des sylphes
I'm pleased to see the number of mentions for Liapunov in this thread: I think it's incomprehensible how neglected his Transcendentals are.

Incomprehensible, really?

Surely you jest. None of them remotely match the genius of Liszt's etudes, though Liapunov's piano writing is very effective, and yes, difficult. The music looks impressive on the printed page -Amy Beach's music comes to mind here- but there is little evidence of anything remotely original.

Liapunov was just another Russian, amongst many, who breathed the winds of Rimsky-Korsakov and Borodin, but basically re-wrote their music. Listen to his two symphonies. He should have been sued for plagiarism.
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#1982802 - 11/04/12 10:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: argerichfan]
AldenH Offline
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Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: ronde des sylphes
I'm pleased to see the number of mentions for Liapunov in this thread: I think it's incomprehensible how neglected his Transcendentals are.

Incomprehensible, really?

Surely you jest. None of them remotely match the genius of Liszt's etudes, though Liapunov's piano writing is very effective, and yes, difficult. The music looks impressive on the printed page -Amy Beach's music comes to mind here- but there is little evidence of anything remotely original.

Liapunov was just another Russian, amongst many, who breathed the winds of Rimsky-Korsakov and Borodin, but basically re-wrote their music. Listen to his two symphonies. He should have been sued for plagiarism.


+1

A semi-professional performance of a Lyapunov etude I heard this summer was one of the dullest things I've heard in recent memory. Not on my list of "just below the greats."

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#1986394 - 11/13/12 11:16 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
Ridicolosamente Offline
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Originally Posted By: wr
wr, thanks so much again for taking the time to recommend the music. The Sessions sonata is great, I haven't been able to check out his other works yet. The Krenek and Markevitch variations are great - up there with some of the "standards" that are typically played. I'd forgotten about the cutoff in the final fugue as you had mentioned, and that was quite disappointing (really? so close to the finish?) Reminded me of a video of Leontyne Price singing Signore Ascolta that cuts off early - now that's just mean!! I still go back today and hope the outcome will be different, but no dice. The Honegger also enjoyable.

-Daniel
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#1986407 - 11/14/12 12:01 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
ThePawn Offline
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I don't think that Grieg gets nearly enough love. Whoever said Granados gave a good answer. As far as recent composers, how about Nikolai Kapustin and Wim Statius Muller?

Jason

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#1986529 - 11/14/12 08:09 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Cheeto717 Offline
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Kapustin is getting a lot of attention actually. His works frequently appear on competition and recital programs these days. Not to mention all the amateur videos put up on youtube of his etudes. And yes, he does pop up on the Pianist Corner from time to time.
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#1986653 - 11/14/12 01:36 PM Boris Lyatoshynsky [Re: Mark_C]
Nigel Keay Offline
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I just participated in a concert where the music of Boris Lyatoshynsky was played, and he was described in the programme as one of the greatest Ukrainian composers. I couldn't find a mention of him on this forum, so here's a link to his Sonata No.1 from that concert.
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#1987907 - 11/17/12 05:42 PM Re: Boris Lyatoshynsky [Re: Mark_C]
Scordatura Offline
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Boris Tchaikovsky? Has anybody ever heard of his namesake, Piotr Ilich (such an unfortunate name!)? I don't recall seeing one mention on PW of any of his solo piano works, which fill 6 volumes.

I'd add Thalberg and Blumenfeld, simply for their wonderful ingenuity in treating the keyboard. Ireland is pretty famously neglected, too.

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#1987941 - 11/17/12 07:34 PM Re: Boris Lyatoshynsky [Re: Scordatura]
argerichfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scordatura
Ireland is pretty famously neglected, too.

John Ireland I presume? Then, BINGO!

Not neglected at all is his setting of the Anglican Canticles in F -continually done in the UK- but his songs and piano sonata are indeed neglected. His piano concerto was once popular at The Proms, not appreciated these days so much, but it is an incredible piece of music.

Ireland's political beliefs have lost their pungency and relevance, really rather silly today, though he was at least honest about it.

More interesting is the chapter in the book 'Queer Episodes in Music and Modern Identity'. Pre-Stonewall history makes for very uncomfortable reading, and Ireland hid from us his deepest secrets.
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#1987959 - 11/17/12 08:33 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
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If anyone cares to listen to it.

I sorta grew up with this piece, it was much in the background of my youth in the UK, but none of my teachers ever asked me to consider learning it.

I guess it's time had gone by then, Ireland was suspect, but show me a greater piano concerto from that time.

Underrated, yes I would say so.
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#1988115 - 11/18/12 11:01 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Scordatura Offline
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Many thanks for posting the Ireland Concerto, Argerichfan. Having not heard it since my youth - long before studying his solo piano music - it's really interesting to experience the musical language and idioms of the solo works (especially those of the 1920s) with the added dimension of orchestral timbres and serving the large-scale organizational expectations of a concerto. It'll require many listenings, though, to form a judgment as to whether the work succeeds as satisfyingly as the solo pieces, where Ireland was unquestionably on home ground.

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#1988801 - 11/20/12 03:14 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
redrobin62 Offline
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Wieniawski and I share the same birthday, July 10. Interestingly, he also wrote a lengthy Bm sonata like Liszt. Unlike Liszt, however, he gets no love for his work. Shame. What's confusing, though, is the series "The Romantic Piano Concerto Vol. 52" lists his Gm Piano Concerto as Op. 20. In other recordings, as well as Wikipedia, his piano concertos are listed as No. 1 in F#m, Op. 14 and No. 2 in Dm, Op. 22. So what is this Gm, Op. 22 business which I possess as the aforementioned Bm sonata? Looks like a job for Sherlock Holmes.
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#1988823 - 11/20/12 05:16 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: redrobin62]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: redrobin62
Wieniawski and I share the same birthday, July 10. Interestingly, he also wrote a lengthy Bm sonata like Liszt. Unlike Liszt, however, he gets no love for his work. Shame. What's confusing, though, is the series "The Romantic Piano Concerto Vol. 52" lists his Gm Piano Concerto as Op. 20. In other recordings, as well as Wikipedia, his piano concertos are listed as No. 1 in F#m, Op. 14 and No. 2 in Dm, Op. 22. So what is this Gm, Op. 22 business which I possess as the aforementioned Bm sonata? Looks like a job for Sherlock Holmes.


Sherlock not needed - you are just confusing the Wieniawski brothers, Józef and Henryk.

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#1988974 - 11/20/12 02:08 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Teenagepiano Offline
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I haven't been on these forums too long to make an accurate judgement, but I feel like Alkan's name should come up a lot more.

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#1988993 - 11/20/12 03:35 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
pianoslacker Offline
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Surely it's got to be Handel? Whether people like him or not, he's widely accepted as one of the greats, the way many of the others mentioned on here aren't. But there's such a prejudice against him, one that even I can't help sharing to some extent. For example, I have Richter playing 2 whole CDs of his Keyboard Suites as part of the 'Icon' box. There are some insanely beautiful and exciting pieces on there, but I don't listen to it much. Often when I do put it on, after a while I tend to think: okay, that's enough Handel! And then I feel bad because I know he deserves better.

Here's a real-life scenario that that probably illustrates his current rep quite well:


I'm playing the Richter CDs.

Someone comes in. "Oh, I love this! Could you burn a disc for me?"

"Sure, I'll burn a disc of this Handel for you."

"Oh, it's Handel? I thought it was Bach?"

After that they never remind me to burn a disc for them, and I get to save a disc.

(Of course in reality I never would have burnt that disc for them, because that would be like stealing frown )

Now I'm not saying that Handel is the same thing as Bach, but still. And I wonder sometimes what the grounds of this prejudice might be?

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#2059508 - 04/04/13 10:55 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Plowboy Offline
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William Grant Still? He's definitely neglected, and undeservedly so.

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#2059529 - 04/05/13 12:00 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: dolce sfogato]
Dwscamel Offline
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Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
Lyapunov/Ljapoenoff/Liapunov it must be, he wrote 12 études d'ex.tr. (op.11) to follow up Liszt's 12, and did a good job: truly Lisztian in scope and difficulty, but very russian at that, and he wrote a wonderful sonata (op.27), based on the architecture of Liszt but, as in the études, he built a Russian Orthodox cathedral on the Lisztian example, the first really russian sounding sonata ever, really! Some good variationworks, a darling sonatina, why isn't he played more often: it's hard, and to go through that much trouble, well, most prefer the well known names, let's do the whole 'chopin/schumann/liszt/rachmaninoff/etc' rep. It might be a good idea to be adventurous and just try, and also play Medtner, and Glazunov, and Alkan, and Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky, but don't forget Lyapunov!


This is a GREAT post. I completely agree; I only know Lyapunov for his choral/religious music, but it's the kind of music you stop what you're doing to pay attention to. Lyapunov is thick musicking.

Glazunov wrote a saxophone sonata!

Medtner doesn't get much love -- the forgotten Russian Romantic -- but he has some nice shorter pieces (Fairy Tales?).

Of course, hit up Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky laugh.

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#2059542 - 04/05/13 01:19 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Dwscamel]
AldenH Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Surely it's got to be Handel? Whether people like him or not, he's widely accepted as one of the greats, the way many of the others mentioned on here aren't. But there's such a prejudice against him, one that even I can't help sharing to some extent.

[...]

Now I'm not saying that Handel is the same thing as Bach, but still. And I wonder sometimes what the grounds of this prejudice might be?


Schoenberg was very anti-Händel / pro-Bach on the same, purely musical grounds that the Nazis were when they adopted Händel as an approved state composer over Bach: simplicity! Some Händel can be great, but almost all of the Bach that I have heard has been infinitely richer than Händel. Just my (and Schoenberg's) two cents.

Originally Posted By: Plowboy
William Grant Still? He's definitely neglected, and undeservedly so.


I enjoyed this, to a point! His idiom feels a bit dated, and that it might not hold up to repeated listenings, but I haven't heard anything quite like it, so it's a very nice a palette cleanser!

Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky


Of course, hit up Rzwvzckqlrtpszewsky laugh.


Rzweverklpylytcbzewski is a wonderful composer! grin


Okay, contribution time: Roger Redgate's Eidos. About a minute long, and I feel like it would make a great encore. I just bought the (two page) score for this today on the basis of Nicholas Hodges' powerful and affecting performance:


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#2059549 - 04/05/13 01:51 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Rzwvzckqaergliuajreljgfaweiojfiwulajaijfwetpszewsky is pretty under-appreciated, I agree.

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#2059609 - 04/05/13 05:22 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Orange Soda King]
Lingyis Offline
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Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Rzwvzckqaergliuajreljgfaweiojfiwulajaijfwetpszewsky is pretty under-appreciated, I agree.


I agree, Rzwzezqszzzjjjisjzjfsky's so under-appreciated I never spell his name the same twice.
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#2059826 - 04/05/13 12:40 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
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#2059828 - 04/05/13 12:40 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Lingyis]
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Karol Szymanowski,
I'm little surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet...

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#2060199 - 04/06/13 05:50 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: kapelli]
fnork Offline
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Originally Posted By: kapelli
Karol Szymanowski,
I'm little surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet...

Perhaps because he hasn't been entirely neglected here? At least I personally have tried to keep the discussion up about his music in various threads, haha wink
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#2060202 - 04/06/13 05:55 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
fnork Offline
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I haven't followed the entire thread, but it seems some of the russian avant-garde guys aren't mentioned much. Roslavets, Feinberg, Mosolov, people? Some very valuable stuff there, just discovering Roslavets piano sonatas.
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#2060212 - 04/06/13 06:37 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: kapelli
Karol Szymanowski,
I'm little surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet...

Perhaps because he hasn't been entirely neglected here? At least I personally have tried to keep the discussion up about his music in various threads, haha wink


Not to mention that you have posted some very fine performances of his work!

For Polish composers who are really neglected here, how about Artur Malawski? His Symphonic Etudes for piano and orchestra should be better known, I think. As should the Toccata and Fugue in the Form of Variations, also for piano and orchestra - I can't even find a recording of this, although there is a rumor that there once was one. I wish somebody would upload it to YouTube, if it exists. Considering how rare it is, I am surprised that once, decades ago, I heard/saw it on a television broadcast, and still can remember how taken I was with it. The Symphonic Etudes are there already...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGbt0FE3jA

Back to Szymanowski, there's a new recording of the Symphonie Concertante on Chandos with Louis Lortie that's really good.

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#2060261 - 04/06/13 09:21 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: pianoslacker]
pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoslacker
Surely it's got to be Handel? Whether people like him or not, he's widely accepted as one of the greats, the way many of the others mentioned on here aren't...

Now I'm not saying that Handel is the same thing as Bach, but still. And I wonder sometimes what the grounds of this prejudice might be?
I think Handel's greatness has nothing to do with his keyboard music which I don't find very great. I think there are good reasons why it's almost never performed with the exception of a handful of works.

I think many of the composers on this thread may fall in the neglected category but hardly in the great category.


Edited by pianoloverus (04/06/13 09:23 AM)

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#2060293 - 04/06/13 10:31 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: pianoloverus]
fnork Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think many of the composers on this thread may fall in the neglected category but hardly in the great category.

Well, I for one am fairly tired of the approach to music history where we have one Genius Composer carrying the torch of Western Classical Music until the next Genius Composer comes along and takes it over. Once you start looking under the surface, there was so much more going on. Early 20th century french music is so much more than just Ravel and Debussy...to give but one example. Also, it's only fair to point out that composers under the Great category often found inspiration from others around them, however less great they might have been. Just to give a example, a highly talented pianist I know, currently a visiting fellow at Harvard where he's been working with Robert Levin, once came across a little-known C minor piece (sonata perhaps, dont remember) by a mostly forgotten viennes classical composer that started with a motif close to identical to Mozart's C minor fantasy. After the closure on the dominant in the 2nd bar, the theme is re-stated one whole-tone down...As far as I remember, it was written in Vienna and pre-dates the Mozart piece by a year or two. Coincidence? Like Stravinsky said about great composers...they don't borrow, they steal.
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#2060323 - 04/06/13 11:44 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
didyougethathing Offline
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Szymanowski, Ligeti, Dussek!!!!

Albeniz, De Falla, Granados, Villa Lobos, Ginastera, Lecuona, any other Latin American/Spanish composer

Griffes!

Also, this Stanchinsky work in particular is an underrated gem:


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#2060349 - 04/06/13 12:42 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: fnork
....I for one am fairly tired of the approach to music history where we have one Genius Composer carrying the torch of Western Classical Music until the next Genius Composer comes along and takes it over....A highly talented pianist I know....came across a little-known C minor piece (sonata perhaps, dont remember) by a mostly forgotten viennes classical composer that started with a motif close to identical to Mozart's C minor fantasy. After the closure on the dominant in the 2nd bar, the theme is re-stated one whole-tone down...As far as I remember, it was written in Vienna and pre-dates the Mozart piece by a year or two....

C'mon, don't hold out on us! ha
Who's the composer?

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#2060434 - 04/06/13 04:01 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
fnork Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
C'mon, don't hold out on us! ha
Who's the composer?

The ever-celebrated and over-performed...Leopold Kozeluch!!! Actually, saying that the motif is "close to identical" was an exaggeration, now that I looked back at the score. The similarity is still rather striking to my mind. Did Mozart hear this piece before he wrote the fantasy? Check the score for yourself:

Kozeluch sonata
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#2060446 - 04/06/13 04:20 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: fnork
....Did Mozart hear this piece before he wrote the fantasy? Check the score for yourself....

My goodness gracious. ha

I think Kozeluch was hanging out by Mozart's window, heard it, and wrote this real fast before Mozart could get his out. grin

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#2060461 - 04/06/13 05:30 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
kapelli Online   blank
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Listen the spectacular Finale (from 4:12), however all iss marvellous.
And Blechacz is playing smile


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#2060779 - 04/07/13 01:13 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Numerian Offline
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I would start with the three M's: Mendelssohn, MacDowell, and Medtner. Surprised nobody has mentioned MacDowell yet, as his piano contributions are very accessible and modern-sounding in their simplicity.

Then there are the three H's: Handel, Hummel, and Hindemith.

Finally anybody who's surname begins with Ch. No, I'm not thinking of Chopin. I'm thinking of Cecile Chaminade and Emmanuel Chabrier.

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#2060847 - 04/07/13 04:23 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
FarmGirl Offline

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How about the American composer Charles Griffes?
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#2060850 - 04/07/13 04:26 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: FarmGirl]
fnork Offline
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Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.
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#2060968 - 04/07/13 07:19 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
argerichfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.

Perhaps, but I don't hear his piano sonata as being particularly inferior to the Barber, if the latter has more opportunities for the virtuoso.

Elliott Carter's early sonata (from 1945) seems to me a better work than either.
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#2060992 - 04/07/13 08:20 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Numerian]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Numerian
I would start with the three M's: Mendelssohn, MacDowell, and Medtner...
Then there are the three H's: Handel, Hummel, and Hindemith.
Finally anybody who's surname begins with Ch. No, I'm not thinking of Chopin. I'm thinking of Cecile Chaminade and Emmanuel Chabrier.

What about the 3 I's: Ives, and Ippolitov-Ivanov (counts as 2! if only he'd written more for piano). ha

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#2061064 - 04/07/13 11:13 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
synergy543 Offline
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Godowsky was probably 'somewhat' neglected due to the difficulty of much of his music and the fact that many of them are arrangements (although I'd really consider them compositions). Some of his works are more accessible such as his Corelli arrangements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkzwQyBbOaE

And while not a "great" composer, Karen Tanaka is under-represented on the forum probably because of the language barrier, and that most of the time her name is written in Japanese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijRw4aeNF0


Edited by synergy543 (04/08/13 01:39 AM)

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#2061177 - 04/08/13 07:45 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.


There isn't a lot of it to hear, it basically can all fit onto a single CD (and, BTW, Hyperion is releasing just such a CD this month, played by Garrick Ohlsson).

I think I find most of it more interesting and attractive than you seem to. As far as innovation goes, his sonata was fairly innovative, and there's still nothing else quite like it. It was really a terrible loss to music that he died (at age 35) just as he was starting to really find his voice as a composer.

Speaking of innovation, how important is it in determining the quality of a composer's output? Of course, simply developing an individual style is a kind of innovation in itself. But innovation in the larger sense doesn't seem to me to be a requirement for good music. After all, J. S. Bach was never that much of a ground-breaking innovator.

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#2061283 - 04/08/13 01:28 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
didyougethathing Offline
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Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.


There isn't a lot of it to hear, it basically can all fit onto a single CD (and, BTW, Hyperion is releasing just such a CD this month, played by Garrick Ohlsson).

I think I find most of it more interesting and attractive than you seem to. As far as innovation goes, his sonata was fairly innovative, and there's still nothing else quite like it. It was really a terrible loss to music that he died (at age 35) just as he was starting to really find his voice as a composer.

Speaking of innovation, how important is it in determining the quality of a composer's output? Of course, simply developing an individual style is a kind of innovation in itself. But innovation in the larger sense doesn't seem to me to be a requirement for good music. After all, J. S. Bach was never that much of a ground-breaking innovator.




I said Griffes! His music is pleasant and unique.

I too don't appreciate people judging a composer on how innovative they were. Not that I don't like the modern direction of art music, but I'd love to hear a new piece that is somewhat consonant and using the harmonic language developed over hundreds of years. I don't see the big deal!

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#2061366 - 04/08/13 04:47 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
jeffreyjones Offline
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Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.


There isn't a lot of it to hear, it basically can all fit onto a single CD (and, BTW, Hyperion is releasing just such a CD this month, played by Garrick Ohlsson).

I think I find most of it more interesting and attractive than you seem to. As far as innovation goes, his sonata was fairly innovative, and there's still nothing else quite like it. It was really a terrible loss to music that he died (at age 35) just as he was starting to really find his voice as a composer.

Speaking of innovation, how important is it in determining the quality of a composer's output? Of course, simply developing an individual style is a kind of innovation in itself. But innovation in the larger sense doesn't seem to me to be a requirement for good music. After all, J. S. Bach was never that much of a ground-breaking innovator.




I like to play the Fountains of Acqua Paola once in a while, after folks have forgotten the last time I played it.. beautiful late-Romantic piece. I don't buy the line that he was just parroting Debussy.. I hear shades of Liszt's Annees more than anything, but the harmonic language is original.

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#2061383 - 04/08/13 05:09 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: jeffreyjones]
didyougethathing Offline
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Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.


There isn't a lot of it to hear, it basically can all fit onto a single CD (and, BTW, Hyperion is releasing just such a CD this month, played by Garrick Ohlsson).

I think I find most of it more interesting and attractive than you seem to. As far as innovation goes, his sonata was fairly innovative, and there's still nothing else quite like it. It was really a terrible loss to music that he died (at age 35) just as he was starting to really find his voice as a composer.

Speaking of innovation, how important is it in determining the quality of a composer's output? Of course, simply developing an individual style is a kind of innovation in itself. But innovation in the larger sense doesn't seem to me to be a requirement for good music. After all, J. S. Bach was never that much of a ground-breaking innovator.




I like to play the Fountains of Acqua Paola once in a while, after folks have forgotten the last time I played it.. beautiful late-Romantic piece. I don't buy the line that he was just parroting Debussy.. I hear shades of Liszt's Annees more than anything, but the harmonic language is original.


Nightfall from the same set is also a really neat piece with some cool harmonies. LOVE the changes from 1:15-1:22 here:



I've noticed that more than a few of his works have the Ravel "Le Gibet" thing going on in them with the repeated notes.


Edited by didyougethathing (04/08/13 05:11 PM)

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#2061386 - 04/08/13 05:12 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Polyphonist Offline
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Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha
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#2061399 - 04/08/13 05:26 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Polyphonist]
didyougethathing Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



That would get ugly fast! help

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#2061436 - 04/08/13 06:59 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: didyougethathing]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



That would get ugly fast! help


I guess it might. grin I guess I won't instigate that discussion then. ha
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#2061497 - 04/08/13 09:05 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



I'm tempted.
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#2061527 - 04/08/13 09:46 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



That would get ugly fast! help


I guess it might. grin I guess I won't instigate that discussion then. ha


Originally Posted By: JoelW

I'm tempted.


Oh well, looks like I already have. ha
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#2061558 - 04/08/13 10:18 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Polyphonist]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



You mean thread?

I think something along those lines was attempted once, and IIRC, it got shot down as being mean-spirited and juvenile pretty quickly.

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#2061562 - 04/08/13 10:29 PM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



You mean thread?

I think something along those lines was attempted once, and IIRC, it got shot down as being mean-spirited and juvenile pretty quickly.


Yes, I try to get the "thread" and "forum" thing right, but sometimes when it's late I tend to mix them up. ha

And nobody was supposed to take that suggestion too seriously; I figured it had probably been done before but had to say it anyway. grin
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#2061622 - 04/09/13 12:34 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
Plowboy Offline
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Scarlatti seems neglected here. Ralph Kirkpatrick says he was the most original keyboard composer of his century.


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#2061631 - 04/09/13 12:43 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Plowboy]
didyougethathing Offline
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Originally Posted By: Plowboy
Scarlatti seems neglected here. Ralph Kirkpatrick says he was the most original keyboard composer of his century.


While I don't agree that he's neglected, I do agree with the statement by Kirkpatrick. He is widely performed, but I still feel he is greatly overshadowed by Bach.

Scarlatti's keyboard music is some of the freshest, most original stuff I've heard from that era. And you get your money's worth with 555 sonatas to choose from!

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#2061634 - 04/09/13 12:50 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Polyphonist]
jeffreyjones Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



RVW.

/flee!

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#2061649 - 04/09/13 01:36 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: jeffreyjones]
didyougethathing Offline
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Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Have we ever done a forum about overrated composers? ha



RVW.

/flee!


That's quite a tame one, compared to who I'm thinking of. grin

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#2061687 - 04/09/13 04:24 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Mark_C]
fnork Offline
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Now that keyboard composers of Scarlatti's era are mentioned - how about Soler?
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#2061716 - 04/09/13 06:04 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: fnork]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: fnork
Now that keyboard composers of Scarlatti's era are mentioned - how about Soler?


I'd agree - Soler is neglected here at PW.

And in concert, too, although I once did hear someone (Santiago Rodriguez, IIRC) play that extremely obsessive fandango of Soler's in a recital. Well, it was attributed to Soler, anyway...I understand that attribution is not very certain anymore.

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#2061752 - 04/09/13 08:21 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: wr]
SlatterFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
How about the American composer Charles Griffes?

Not that I've heard an awful lot so far but he seems to have been very uneven, and perhaps not very innovative either.


There isn't a lot of it to hear, it basically can all fit onto a single CD (and, BTW, Hyperion is releasing just such a CD this month, played by Garrick Ohlsson).

I think I find most of it more interesting and attractive than you seem to. As far as innovation goes, his sonata was fairly innovative, and there's still nothing else quite like it. It was really a terrible loss to music that he died (at age 35) just as he was starting to really find his voice as a composer.

I agree with this about Griffes, especially with regard to his sonata. I find it powerful, painful, poignant, haunting. The only piano music I know that sounds a bit similar in places is Alexander Tcherepnin's first piano sonata, which was completed a year later than the Griffes sonata in 1919. The harmonic language is similar because in these works Griffes mostly uses an 8-note scale while Tcherepnin mostly uses a 9-note scale. Griffes writes using a D minor triad combined with the pentatonic scale on black notes, and Tcherepnin uses three overlapping STS tetrachords. Spelling out both scales from A:

Griff: A, B flat, C sharp, D, E flat, F, F sharp, G sharp, A
Tcher: A, B flat, C, C sharp, D, E, F, F sharp, G sharp, A

So Griffes uses E flat instead of E natural, and does not have a C natural, compared to the Tcherepnin scale. To my ears, the Griffes sounds more dissonant, and also feels more "rhapsodic", with a narrative sweep more important than structure, while the Tcherepnin sounds more constrained and formal.

Originally Posted By: wr
Speaking of innovation, how important is it in determining the quality of a composer's output? Of course, simply developing an individual style is a kind of innovation in itself. But innovation in the larger sense doesn't seem to me to be a requirement for good music. After all, J. S. Bach was never that much of a ground-breaking innovator.

I agree.

By the way, my vote for the most neglected great piano composer on Pianist Corner, who has already been mentioned in this thread, is Grieg. Perhaps this is due to the emphasis placed here on stretching one's technique, and discovering little-known gems by little-known composers. Grieg might seem too common or obvious or "easy" to some. I think he wrote all kinds of gems that are worth exploring, both on their own merits and also to appreciate how influential they were on other late-romantic composers, which I think is also under-estimated. (For example, just listen to Debussy's early choral work La damoiselle élue. Do you think Debussy might have loved Grieg's piano concerto very much, especially the melody, harmonies and progressions of the second theme to the first movement? I do.)
_________________________
Julian

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#2062278 - 04/10/13 05:15 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: SlatterFan]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7431
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan


By the way, my vote for the most neglected great piano composer on Pianist Corner, who has already been mentioned in this thread, is Grieg. Perhaps this is due to the emphasis placed here on stretching one's technique, and discovering little-known gems by little-known composers. Grieg might seem too common or obvious or "easy" to some. I think he wrote all kinds of gems that are worth exploring, both on their own merits and also to appreciate how influential they were on other late-romantic composers, which I think is also under-estimated. (For example, just listen to Debussy's early choral work La damoiselle élue. Do you think Debussy might have loved Grieg's piano concerto very much, especially the melody, harmonies and progressions of the second theme to the first movement? I do.)


It's always been interesting to me that Gilels and Richter, neither of whom dabbled much in light-weight music, played hefty chunks of the Lyric Pieces. That's telling, I think.

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#2062311 - 04/10/13 07:27 AM Re: 'Most neglected' great piano composer on Pianist Corner? [Re: Numerian]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7431
Originally Posted By: Numerian

Finally anybody who's surname begins with Ch. No, I'm not thinking of Chopin. I'm thinking of Cecile Chaminade and Emmanuel Chabrier.


Good ones.

There's also Carlos Chavez, whose preludes are quite interesting in a 1930's sort of way. He also wrote a fantastic piano concerto that Arrau premiered and said was the most difficult concerto he ever learned. I wonder if there is a recording of that premiere stashed in some archive somewhere - it would be fascinating to hear.

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