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65 members (brennbaer, accordeur, antune, Colin Miles, anotherscott, AndyOnThePiano2, benkeys, 11 invisible),
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,894
5000 Post Club Member
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I'd recommend all potential Casio AP-650 owners to make sure you try before you buy.
I agree wholeheartedly. I made a purchase of the Casio AP-620 a couple of years ago based on the hype and found the decay much too short for my taste, also.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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Joined: Aug 2010
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@dmd,
You would think the new AP-650 would have improved upon the short decay with the AP-620, however, that apparently doesn't seem to be the case. The additional memory allocation was still not sufficient enough to improve the short decay.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Well the Roland RP-301R arrived yesterday and I'm extremely happy with it...The Casio AP-650 was collected by the couriers and returned back to the store. I'm now awaiting a refund.
The decay tone on all notes on the Roland is as expected - excellent. A massive contrast to the Casio. Slightly limited features & polyphony capability on the Roland but I'm not overly concerned about this.
Happily, the Schubert impromptu sounds as it should, a faithfully reproducing sound which pleases the ear from start to finish. Even on the 2nd piano tone which is slightly softer it really does impress.
Personally, I'm glad to return the Casio, I dont think I could ever have lived with such a quick decay tone. A lesson learnt I guess. For an extra £200 I've made the right decision.
I'd recommend all potential Casio AP-650 owners to make sure you try before you buy. @andy1040, I am glad to hear that you are enjoying the new Roland RP-301R! And, it sounds like you now have sufficient decay on this one to play the Schubert impromptu. And, yes, try before you buy, to see if it is exactly what you want.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 480
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@dmd,
You would think the new AP-650 would have improved upon the short decay with the AP-620, however, that apparently doesn't seem to be the case. The additional memory allocation was still not sufficient enough to improve the short decay. Guys, There is a video of "Piano Man Chuck" online with a PX-330 and PX-350. His video proves that the decay on the PX-350 and therefor the AP-650 is almost twice as long. PV88, you've played a AP-650? A PX-350? You claim to not like the textured keys in another thread too.. Have you played it?
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 27
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Mike - which particular video(s) are you referring to ?
None of PMC's videos I've found are testing / proving the decay tone length on the middle range in respect to delicate classical pieces of music, such as the Impromptu.
These videos just show off the PX-350 (and AP-650)'s best features with a collection of songs & tones that do not address the point I've been making.
There is still a jury out.
Andy
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Mike - have you had an opportunity to play the Schubert on the AP-650 yet ? Be very intersted to hear your views on it.
Andy
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Mike is just here to help out on his own account. I don't think he's obliged to anything. I think so far he's been very helpful and forthcoming on all questions people have about the new (and older) Casio's.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Guys I'm on the road 4 out of the last five weeks and will only get home for two weekends during that time. I'll get a recording sone ASAP but with the travel I have limited access to product where I can make a recording.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 836
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Hello Mike, did you bring up the issue with R&D about the uneven spacing found on the newer models. I followed your advice and contacted the retailer for a replacement and am getting one, but I think some consideration has to be given to this issue.
Having newer piano sounds and nicer keys are important and the piano is fantastic, but it is important as well to focus on consistency along the keybed.
Kawai Es8
Korg Nautilus 61
Yamaha P125
Arturia KeyLab MKII
Yamaha CK61
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Show me a sub $1000 board that does not have reports of key spacing irregularities? On this forum there are similar reports for boards costing above $2000 from other manufacturers! Not saying its right, but Casio are not alone. There's an ill defined point of pleasing aesthetics, versus function, nit picking and and defect. Same applies to an acoustic.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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I must have been more fortunate with the other 3 I have; I am getting my replacement and hope to drop the subject as I know I am probably being a pain about it lol
Kawai Es8
Korg Nautilus 61
Yamaha P125
Arturia KeyLab MKII
Yamaha CK61
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Did some heavy experimenting with the brilliance and velocity levels on the 650. None of these variables affect the tonal decay on the middle range. Here is the piece I'm referring to (as an example, being played on a Kawai CN21) http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBOev7vd2tQThe melody line cannot be recreated like this on the 650 no matter what techniques are adapted or what parameters are set. The important and fundamental melodic sequence being played in the middle range cuts off far too early via the tonal decay even with sustain being utilised. It's key for me (excuse the pun) as an intermediate pianist that this is retained, not released. I tried all of the same settings on the Casio AP-620 although nothing seemed to improve the lack of tonal decay in the samples. I now have a Kawai EP3 (which is $300 less than the Casio) as it has sufficient decay. There is no way you can sustain the melodic line properly in the Schubert impromptu (score is linked to, above) as this is not possible on the Casio AP-620. Looks like the decay is not long enough with the AP-650, too. This clearly indicates that the new (3x) memory allocation for the Casio AP-650 is still not enough, as the short "tonal decay" you mention has always been an Achilles' heel for Casio, in all of their models.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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I bought an AP-450 a month ago, enjoying it. It made a recording for the DPBSD project, I am unable to analyze it, but it is available at : http://www.mediafire.com/?wg1knutcd5md0vhI did not detect a shocking decay when playing (my reference is the end of JS Bach Fuga II with a sustained left hand, no pedal, while right hand is playing the theme) (I'm playing with all defaults settings)
Last edited by Damien Salvador; 12/14/12 04:37 AM.
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Please note "andy0140" above mentioned it is not possible to correctly sustain/play the long melodic lines in the Schubert impromptu, with the AP-650.
This is the same reason I now have a Kawai EP3 (instead of the Casio AP-620) as the Casio was not able to sustain the melodic lines in the impromptu, and, other pieces.
And, the overall resonance is too thin/sparse in the Casio AP-620 with heavier chordal passages.
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I'm holding firm on this one.
Damien Salvador - am I missing something on your demo ? Its just a sample of single notes across the range being played individually. There is no real melody in that MP3.
I'm still waiting to hear Mike Martin's rendition of the Impromptu on the 650 which was offered in this thread.
And...I dont have this issue on the Roland RP301R.
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Joined: Nov 2012
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andy01040 No you're not missing anything  This is the recording of the midi file for DPBSD from an adjoining thread : http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1365103/1.htmlThis is definitively not meant to be listened as a background music for an intimate dinner ! Dewster uses these recordings to make comparisons about the sampling technologies for different DP. So if you want to measure decay objectively, you've got a reference point as there are several Roland recordings (did not see the 301R): http://www.mediafire.com/?231dpr3ctpa8r#77vy8y6z231yzWhat I'm saying is that I did not detect an outrageous loss when playing, contrary to what I could experience on my parents (very) old clavinova from the late 80's. My personal test was on BWV 847, fuga II (but no recording): http://www.free-scores.com/partitions_telecharger.php?partition=466for the last 2 measures which are playable without rushing (my perception, mileage may vary)
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I'm still waiting to hear Mike Martin's rendition of the Impromptu on the 650 which was offered in this thread. Doubt that Mike will be able to add any further decay (or, sustain) to the melodic line in the Impromptu, as I already know this is an inherent problem of the AP-620, too. As you (Andy) have already confirmed the same lack of decay with the AP-650. Wonder why the new (3x) memory allocation was not sufficient?
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Andy,
I'm quite familiar with the piece, I've played it. As I said, I'll get a recording up of this on a Privia / Celviano.
PS. No recordings before next week though, I'm at our office in Japan this week. Mike - any chance of a recording of the impromptu yet on the 650 ? Still v interested to hear your reaction and opinion. Or do I take it by a lack of response my judgement speaks volumes ? Andy.
Last edited by andy0140; 01/06/13 04:52 PM.
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