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Joined: Dec 2009
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Hey 10
That's a cool idea to record yourself doing the JOI tunes.
Wow, you're good at singing exactly one octave lower. You're doing great.
And even with no LH chords, you're good at keeping in tune.
The songs get harder to sing IMO.
In the blues one, it seemed your accents and swing were good when you weren't singing. I know I must sound like a hypocrite commenting on your accents and swing because these are my problem areas at the moment !
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Hey Ten,
I'll check it out tomorrow. Post whatever you feel comfortable posting. Improvising on a simple 2-5-1 is a great way to get started. Writing a few compositions first will really help you. It makes you internalize progressions. It's really odd, but it works.
For singing, don't hesitate to switch octaves.
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Hi 10
Please accept my apologies. I just looked back at my post and realised it didn't make sense. I meant that your swing feel and accents were great but even better when you didn't have to worry about playing at the same time.
I think I'm the opposite.
My rhythm is liable to go wrong when I'm singing just the LH chords or a capella - but I didn't realise this until today. I only started recording myself playing the JOI tunes today, having been inspired by your post.
You've made me take the singing more seriously. I've been doing the singing but not recording. I think the singing exercise, besides helping us internalise the great JOI tunes, really exposes where our weaknesses are, which for me is rhythm.
I will post my Lesson 23 blues singing with the melody. But I deleted my LH chords and a capella versions when I played them back and noticed something wrong with the rhythm. Now it's too late for the neighbours to re-record.
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Hi Here I sing Lesson 23 Blue With You @ 108 bpm while playing the melody. http://www.box.net/shared/zfaqzl0c0c
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Ten,
Your recordings are great. I can tell you I've never been able to play or sing those as well as you just did.
Of the 2, I prefer the first, and I think it's because of the metronome on 2 and 4. Good idea to do that. It really made you swing hard.
You can move through the tunes faster than the hanons if you'd like. Seems like the tunes come easy for you.
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Lesson 23! Tough tune! You sang it really well. No need to push the metronome, play it where it's comfortable. Ten just set a new standard by first playing & singing, then singing with LH chords, and finally singing a capella. Be sure to do that, even if you don't record.
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How's everyone doing? Jazzin?
I also did some recordings of ii-V-I + arps + metronome, but they are pretty rough. I will post tomorrow if I'm brave enough. If I don't post, you'll know I chickened out.
When you get to lesson 5 or 6 on the tunes, you should start doing compositions like Cus has been doing. That will totally set you free on the improv. I think Dave usually has students improvise when they get to lesson 12 or 15. Around there. By then, you've composed over a few tunes. The process of composing a solo is unbelievable because all you have to do is write it as if it was improvised, but you're given all the time you want. Yet, it's very difficult. The thought process is what helped me get free. It's really amazing. It's like digging for buried treasure inside your head.
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Joined: May 2009
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Hi 10
Please accept my apologies. I just looked back at my post and realised it didn't make sense. I meant that your swing feel and accents were great but even better when you didn't have to worry about playing at the same time.
Not at all. It was an interesting observation. I swing the piano harder when I'm not singing. This doesn't bother me at all, because if I ever (and I can't see why I would - Elton John watch out) sing and play piano at the same time, I certainly won't be duplicating voice and RH. Basically I sat down to play and realised after a few bars I'd forgotten to sing, so I just kept going.  As for the swing, custard, all I can say is I had to work really hard on that. Thankyou both for your kind comments. I will post more later. Now I have a 30 minute slot where I can play piano.
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Custard, that tune doesn't sound easy at all. You do a good job of it. I only noticed one spot where the rhythm went. At the end of the day, if this was easy, we wouldn't be doing it... Thanks for all the compliments on the singing! It makes me realise I actually did a lot of singing as a kid. I never really thought about it before, but I am fairly good at holding my tune. I always sang mezzo or alto, so I had to be able to hold the harmony. In fact, at risk of going off topic... For out music class (I think this was 4th year of high school, so we were all music-specialists) we sang old English madrigals, in 3 part counterpoint. We loved this so much we would ask to use a room over lunch, and begged the teachers to let us have the madrigal books. I'm not sure the teachers ever understood why. The first song in the book was called 'Where the bee sucks, there suck I'. The front cover was a photograph of an ancient manuscript of this song. It was written out in old English characters so all the s's looked like f's. And I'm afraid, when we were 15, that was about the funniest thing we had ever seen.  I had done some dreadful recordings of arpeggios over ii-V-I's with the metronome. Basically I was not in control, though I could stumble by without the metronome, by allowing myself hesitation. Well, today was the key of G, and guess what? I can do it! Clearly some keys are more familiar to my fingers than others. http://www.box.net/shared/hlrfjg96s0The mumblings you here are me saying chord names out loud. Without that it's complete chaos. Knotty - I will compose something at some point. Just not had time and peace. What would you suggest? Something over the changes of Leaf Line? I am happy to stick to one lesson at a time - I do work on other material, so I'm not bored.
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Ten
I agree with Knotty that you're learning the tunes very quickly.
For me, I take 3 times as long to learn the jazz tune as the blues one.
You've got the voice, the co-ordination and rhythmic feel to play and sing at the same time IMO.
Knots
Thanks for reviewing Lesson 23 Blues. Yes Ten has set a new standard for doing the singing so accurately. I usually sing with the melody accurately, and less accurately with LH chords and a capella. But now Ten has encouraged me to get all my intervals and rhythm right when I sing with LH chords and a capella.
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Custard, that tune doesn't sound easy at all. You do a good job of it. I only noticed one spot where the rhythm went. At the end of the day, if this was easy, we wouldn't be doing it... Thanks for all the compliments on the singing! It makes me realise I actually did a lot of singing as a kid. I never really thought about it before, but I am fairly good at holding my tune. I always sang mezzo or alto, so I had to be able to hold the harmony. In fact, at risk of going off topic... For out music class (I think this was 4th year of high school, so we were all music-specialists) we sang old English madrigals, in 3 part counterpoint. We loved this so much we would ask to use a room over lunch, and begged the teachers to let us have the madrigal books. I'm not sure the teachers ever understood why. The first song in the book was called 'Where the bee sucks, there suck I'. The front cover was a photograph of an ancient manuscript of this song. It was written out in old English characters so all the s's looked like f's. And I'm afraid, when we were 15, that was about the funniest thing we had ever seen. I had done some dreadful recordings of arpeggios over ii-V-I's with the metronome. Basically I was not in control, though I could stumble by without the metronome, by allowing myself hesitation. Well, today was the key of G, and guess what? I can do it! Clearly some keys are more familiar to my fingers than others. http://www.box.net/shared/hlrfjg96s0The mumblings you here are me saying chord names out loud. Without that it's complete chaos. Knotty - I will compose something at some point. Just not had time and peace. What would you suggest? Something over the changes of Leaf Line? I am happy to stick to one lesson at a time - I do work on other material, so I'm not bored. Hey Ten Re the blues tune, do you mean I lost the rhythm after the 2nd phrase ? For some reason, I always have trouble after 2 phrases. I thought Scots didn't like to sing English tunes ? Anyway I always knew the Welsh were fantastic singers, and it seems like the Scots are too. You practising the arps with a metronome sounds like a different person. Congrats. Yes do the composition over Dave's Lesson 1 jazz chord voicings in Leaf Line whenever you're ready.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
3000 Post Club Member
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Custard, that tune doesn't sound easy at all. You do a good job of it. I only noticed one spot where the rhythm went. At the end of the day, if this was easy, we wouldn't be doing it... Thanks for all the compliments on the singing! It makes me realise I actually did a lot of singing as a kid. I never really thought about it before, but I am fairly good at holding my tune. I always sang mezzo or alto, so I had to be able to hold the harmony. In fact, at risk of going off topic... For out music class (I think this was 4th year of high school, so we were all music-specialists) we sang old English madrigals, in 3 part counterpoint. We loved this so much we would ask to use a room over lunch, and begged the teachers to let us have the madrigal books. I'm not sure the teachers ever understood why. The first song in the book was called 'Where the bee sucks, there suck I'. The front cover was a photograph of an ancient manuscript of this song. It was written out in old English characters so all the s's looked like f's. And I'm afraid, when we were 15, that was about the funniest thing we had ever seen. I had done some dreadful recordings of arpeggios over ii-V-I's with the metronome. Basically I was not in control, though I could stumble by without the metronome, by allowing myself hesitation. Well, today was the key of G, and guess what? I can do it! Clearly some keys are more familiar to my fingers than others. http://www.box.net/shared/hlrfjg96s0The mumblings you here are me saying chord names out loud. Without that it's complete chaos. Knotty - I will compose something at some point. Just not had time and peace. What would you suggest? Something over the changes of Leaf Line? I am happy to stick to one lesson at a time - I do work on other material, so I'm not bored. Hey Ten Re the blues tune, do you mean I lost the rhythm after the 2nd phrase ? For some reason, I always have trouble after 2 phrases. I thought Scots didn't like to sing English tunes ? Anyway I always knew the Welsh were fantastic singers, and it seems like the Scots are too. You practising the arps with a metronome sounds like a different person. Congrats. Yes do the composition over Dave's Lesson 1 jazz chord voicings in Leaf Line whenever you're ready. It was between bars 6 and 7. Just checked again. There's an extra beat. I don't think Scots have the same tradition of singing as the Welsh. These madrigals just tickled us, that's all. I'll keep doing the arpeggios till it's comfortable in all keys, with or without the metronome. Don't want to get too hung up on it.
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Yeah, that's where I went wrong in the a capella one that I deleted.
I forgot to ask - what's a madrigal ?
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Hi It's been one and a half weeks since I posted an improv so I'd really like your feedback. It's my first ever minor 6 progression. I do ii V i of A min 6 @ 84 bpm. http://www.box.net/shared/c7rie2nfocThanks !
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Good Amelia. Your jazz feel is perfect, your phrases are complete and the rests between them feel natural. You might have wanted to end the last phrase on an A instead of a Ab, that would have made that phrase sound more nailed, although I kinda liked the unresolved feeling that ending on the Ab gave too..
If you do 6 keys of these progressions for improv, that's enough. Usually C F G Bb Eb Ab for the major progressions, and C D F G A Bb of the minor ones. The progressions you did so far involved using one scale only. The next one to do would be a combination prog of 2m7 5dom 7 1Maj7 going to 2m7b5 5Dom7 1m6 of the relative minor:
Dm7/G7/CMaj7/CMaj7/ Bm7b5/E7/Am6/Am6, do this for awhile in C F G Bb Eb Ab, 2-3 keys/week..
improv with the C Maj scale for the first 4 measures and the A harmonic minor for the second 4 measures. This will teach you how to switch scales while maintaining the flow-phrase-breathe concept of creating melodic lines. It's like slalom skiing as opposed to downhill skiing. This is the basic concept of improvising over tunes - changing scales while continuing the flowing and phrasing of the melodies.
You are learning to improvise. I am proud of you:)
Dave Frank
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Hi It's been one and a half weeks since I posted an improv so I'd really like your feedback. It's my first ever minor 6 progression. I do ii V i of A min 6 @ 84 bpm. http://www.box.net/shared/c7rie2nfocThanks ! Hot stuff. The progress in a week or two is great! There's no stopping you now!
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Custard, that is great! This is what I can look forward to? It sounded in control, and minor is *so* much juicier than major.
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Good Amelia. Your jazz feel is perfect, your phrases are complete and the rests between them feel natural. You might have wanted to end the last phrase on an A instead of a Ab, that would have made that phrase sound more nailed, although I kinda liked the unresolved feeling that ending on the Ab gave too..
If you do 6 keys of these progressions for improv, that's enough. Usually C F G Bb Eb Ab for the major progressions, and C D F G A Bb of the minor ones. The progressions you did so far involved using one scale only. The next one to do would be a combination prog of 2m7 5dom 7 1Maj7 going to 2m7b5 5Dom7 1m6 of the relative minor:
Dm7/G7/CMaj7/CMaj7/ Bm7b5/E7/Am6/Am6, do this for awhile in C F G Bb Eb Ab, 2-3 keys/week..
improv with the C Maj scale for the first 4 measures and the A harmonic minor for the second 4 measures. This will teach you how to switch scales while maintaining the flow-phrase-breathe concept of creating melodic lines. It's like slalom skiing as opposed to downhill skiing. This is the basic concept of improvising over tunes - changing scales while continuing the flowing and phrasing of the melodies.
You are learning to improvise. I am proud of you:)
Dave Frank Hi Dave Thanks so much for your encouragement, feedback and your clear advice on the next steps. I look forward to creating more slalom skiing-like lines. Yes concentrating on your suggested keys makes the task seem less daunting. I feel I am living proof that your methodology works. I came off a very low base. I only listened to Keith Jarrett when I started JOI, I couldn't find a teacher here in Sydney who could do your swing, I didn't know what blues was, and I didn't know where to start for playing jazz songs. I can't believe that I've achieved this in less than a year of JOI. Thanks for making your JOI methodology and your hot masterclasses so accessible to everyone. Cheers custard
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Thanks Knotty for guiding me through JOI.
Thanks Ten for learning along with me. Yes I love the cool sound of minor and find that it is more forgiving/accommodating than major.
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Dave and Knotty
Do you think I should do some lines starting on the upbeat or should I consolidate starting on the downbeat ?
Thanks.
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