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#1980989 - 10/31/12 03:29 PM Need help choosing the right DP
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
This is my first post on Piano World forums! I have been scouring the internet for as much information on pianos/digital pianos as possible. I keep coming to this forum and love the threads I read. Very informative!! It's an honor to join all of you in the best piano forum on the internet!

So, I know you all hear this question so much you want to pull your hair out! So, I'll apologize ahead of time but I really need all of your opinions, please!

In the near future (1-2 months) I will be purchasing a DP. I don't really know which one though, and that's where you all come in! I don't have much piano experience, if any at all. I'm a guitar player. I rally want to learn how to play the piano though, but don't want to go to wally world to buy a cheap $89.99 piano, I want something good that will almost encourage me to play more. I am really excited to learn how to play and want to make it a primary instrument of mine that I will play for life. (Hopefully in a few years I can buy a grand or an upright)

I have played a few grands at the University of Michigan's Music School, and I (of course) LOVE the sound and feel. I know without spending thousands on a DP I won't really get that, actually I won't get the sound and feel of a grand unless I buy a grand, BUT, I know there are great options out there that have realistic sound and feel, I have narrowed it down to these..

Yamaha YDP-161
Casio PX-850
Roland F-120

I don't have a lot of knowledge on these pianos, and I live in an area where the only music store is Guitar Center, and they don't carry a huge selection.

What I want to ask you all is...are these good choices? I am really only concerned with realistic piano feel and realistic concert grand sound. I don't really care about the organs, electric sounds, etc...I just want a GREAT piano sound. My price range is $1,500 or less...

Will you guys please help me find the right piano? I know a lot of you will reply with telling me to go play them for myself, which is a great idea...only problem is (as I said above) there are not a lot of music stores around me, and the ones that are near only carry about a dozen.

Here's what I am looking for....

Realistic concert grand sound
Realistic piano hammer feel
Price range under $1,500
Home cabinet style (don't plan on moving it)

Thank you all!! If you have any questions to help narrow this down for me I will answer them ASAP!

Thanks!

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#1981021 - 10/31/12 05:34 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3440
Originally Posted By: John Jr
Here's what I am looking for....

Realistic concert grand sound
Realistic piano hammer feel
Price range under $1,500
Home cabinet style (don't plan on moving it)

Most realistic sound and most realistic feel is pretty much what everyone here wants... and is also the most difficult to get. If you could get it for under $1500, there would be no $5000+ models like Yamaha CP1 and Roland V-Piano, and people even disagree about how realistic they are. Then there's always the even more expensive Yamaha AvantGrand. So first, if we qualify it to "most realistic sound and feel I can get for $1500," I would suggest that perhaps you not lock yourself into a home cabinet style, because then some of your dollars are potentially going into expensive cabinetry instead of sound and feel, and maybe that's not essential unless having the cabinetry really is just as important to you as sound and feel are. I'd also suggest that your selection expands quite a bit if you allow your budget to increase to $2k, if at all possible.

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#1981023 - 10/31/12 05:42 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
Thanks for the reply!! Having a cabinet style piano is not essential, I just prefer the look of the pianos. I might be able to stretch it to $2,000 but as of right now $1,500 is about all I can muster up.

Out of the three piano options I listed which is the best? I can understand not being able to get a pure authentic feel and sound for under $1,500...but with my budget which would be the closest or best?

If I were to look for a non-cabinet style piano, what are some good recommendations in the price range?

Also, besides the Yamaha, Roland and Casio I listed...what about Kawai? I've heard great things about them. Also, I have heard great things about the Casio PX 350...what about those? What is the main difference between a 350 and an 850?

Thanks!!

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#1981025 - 10/31/12 05:53 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 855
Loc: Lakewood, CA
Those are all good models you have listed. I would concentrate on the key action as that is fundamentally the most important consideration. Casio uses all the same action in all their digital pianos so if you play one it is representative of the line. The Yahama is another good choice with a nice action and of course the bright grand piano sound. I haven't played a f-120 but I have played the f-110 and thought it was nice piano. It does not have Roland's top action but I liked the touch on it and the piano sound was also nice. However, it all comes down to what you like. Bring a good pair of headphones to evaluate the sound on whatever you decide to try. But do try before you buy.

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#1981026 - 10/31/12 06:00 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
I'm really intrigued with the new Casios. From what I've read on this forum and several other piano sites they give the new Casios great reviews. Saying that they have the best feel and sound for under $1,500. The problem is that the 2 Guitar Centers by my house only carry one or two casios, two yamahas (141 and 161), they don't even carry a roland F-120..It's a pain because I don't even have an option to really try the pianos I listed.

I figured start looking around now so when the time comes I will have a better idea of what I want..

Thanks or all the information!! The more the better!

If possible I want everyones opinion of the BEST DP under $1,500...please smile

Thanks guys!

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#1981032 - 10/31/12 06:05 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3899
Loc: North Carolina
It's a pointless question. Instead, ask yourself "Which under-$1500 piano do I like best?" That's all that matters.

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#1981047 - 10/31/12 06:32 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: MacMacMac]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2468
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
It's a pointless question. Instead, ask yourself "Which under-$1500 piano do I like best?" That's all that matters.

It doesn't help the OP, but having purchased and sold several DP's now, I have to say Mac is right.

We don't know what feel and touch you like on the keyboard, what sound you like, what supplemental things you like, and what things might niggle and turn you off. It really does mean you have to go out there and see. Other folks opinion might be a starting point but that's all it is it's not fact or (your) truth.


Edited by spanishbuddha (10/31/12 06:33 PM)

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#1981058 - 10/31/12 06:48 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3440
Originally Posted By: John Jr
I might be able to stretch it to $2,000 but as of right now $1,500 is about all I can muster up.

You know, as I thought about it, I figured that's probably fine, because really, it seems that no matter what someone's budget is, you can always find some more interesting stuff at $500 more. ;-)

Originally Posted By: John Jr
What is the main difference between a 350 and an 850?

Based on their lit, String Resonance, Lid Simulator, Key Off Simulator, better speakers.

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#1981062 - 10/31/12 06:52 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: galaxy4t]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3440
Originally Posted By: galaxy4t
Casio uses all the same action in all their digital pianos so if you play one it is representative of the line.

That's actually only true within a given series. The x-50 series feels completely different from the x-30 series. And for that matter, the CDP-120 is a bit different from either, and the PX-3 is similar-to-but-slightly-different-from the x-30 series. These different keybeds are all readily available to be played in stores, so you wouldn't necessarily want to generalize from one Casio to another.

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#1981077 - 10/31/12 07:28 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
1John Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 43
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
When I was looking around recently my preference out of these was the YDP-161, followed by the Casio (forget exactly which model I tried), and then F-120. Before trying them out, I was leaning to Roland, but just had trouble liking the feel - and for no objective reason. So that's just what I liked, and I could easily see how someone could go for just the opposite. MacMacMac has a good point about the individual nature of it.

For me, after playing a few of each of the brands it was fairly clear which ones I felt better about playing. I tried about 5 each of Yamaha and Roland: I felt fairly similar about all the Yamahas, and also similar to all of the Rolands.. Within a good price range, you don't need to try every model as each one is fairly representative of the brand.

Given you can't try the F-120, do they have a Roland in stock you do like to play? Also perhaps check out which slab keyboards they have, as the FP-4F for example would give an idea of the F-120

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#1981101 - 10/31/12 08:18 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
Thank you all for the responses!! I do agree with Mac for sure! Everyone wants something a little different. The Yamaha might be amazing to one person, but be trash to the other, etc.

Like I posted above, the problem is...the two guitar centers by my house (which are basically the only reputable dealers in my area) don't really carry what I want. They don't carry the PX-850, they don't carry the F-120 but they do carry the Yamaha. I didn't really like the feel of the Yamaha, but don't really have much to compare it to. They have more of a selection of pianos for less than $500. The more expensive ones they carry are the YDP-161 and the 141, the Nords and other super high end (out of my price range) pianos. Some Guitar Centers seem like they specialize in certain music fields. I've had a lot of friends who have worked in these stores, including myself for a while and noticed that the store closer to me has a big Guitar section but are slacking in Keyboards, Drums, and Bass. There is another GC by my house that specializes in Drums...very small Guitar floor, small Keyboard/Pro Audio room, big acoustic room and a decent sized Bass room.

Next time I go into one of these stores I'll play similar models of what I'm looking at to try and get a feel for what I want. I was just hoping there would be one of those "best bang for your buck" pianos.

Please continue with any suggestions/opinions. You guys have A LOT more experience then I do! Maybe I should be looking elsewhere? Maybe I don't even know about a piano in my price range that is amazing? I don't know...I need advice!! lol

Thanks everyone!!

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#1981112 - 10/31/12 08:45 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 855
Loc: Lakewood, CA
Not sure where you live, but Sam Ash might be another place you can go to try out pianos. The one by my house has a better selection of brands and models than Guitar Center. If there is a Best Buy near you, some of their stores carry musical instruments. I doubt they will have any of the new Casios yet, but I know they did carry the Roland F-110 and Yahama Arius 141, Yahama P-95, and older Casio PX-830. Not sure if Best Buy is going to continue carrying musical instruments. Some of the stores no longer do.

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#1981120 - 10/31/12 08:52 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: galaxy4t]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
Originally Posted By: galaxy4t
Not sure where you live, but Sam Ash might be another place you can go to try out pianos. The one by my house has a better selection of brands and models than Guitar Center. If there is a Best Buy near you, some of their stores carry musical instruments. I doubt they will have any of the new Casios yet, but I know they did carry the Roland F-110 and Yahama Arius 141, Yahama P-95, and older Casio PX-830. Not sure if Best Buy is going to continue carrying musical instruments. Some of the stores no longer do.


There are no Sam Ash's by me that I know of? I'll have to check on that! Since it is going to be another month or so, I can give it a bit more time and maybe GC will start carrying the Casio or maybe even have an F-120 in stock.

I really just wanted everyones opinion on what THEY think is the best DP under $1,500. It will help me gain knowledge and maybe even find out about brands/models I've never heard of!

Keep the comments coming guys! I really appreciate your time.

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#1981125 - 10/31/12 09:03 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2771
Loc: Atlanta, GA
You have a good list. I would try the Casio AP-620 as well. How far would a field trip be to try the others?

By the way, if you end up with the Roland F-120, check on the official promo that starts...in a few hours.
_________________________
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
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#1981143 - 10/31/12 10:05 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
Sand Tiger Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 1098
Loc: Southern California
The buyers guide is one resource. The prices paid thread near the top of forum is another, and one of the most useful in terms of recommendations. Most buyers on the thread did tons of research using the full resources of the forum before buying. There is no right or wrong answer. It is usually a matter of trade offs, some minor, some more substantial.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Buying_A_Piano/buying_a_digital_piano.html
_________________________
my piano uploads

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#1981171 - 10/31/12 11:34 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
I'll go check out the buyer guide and price paid thread for sure! Thanks!

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#1981282 - 11/01/12 09:46 AM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
As I stated several times already in other threads: I did feel differences in the actions, but finally found for myself that the differences in the sound more affected me. It might be easier to adapt to a certain key action, especially if later on you are not playing different ones but stay 95% of the time only with yours, than adapting ears to a sound the character of which you do not like so much. You can compare sounds online and don┬┤t have to travel. If you wouldn┬┤t like one sound, then your choice for the DP of interest becomes more narrowed...
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1981379 - 11/01/12 02:46 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
I can agree with you, Marco. That is a good point.

I can say I don't really like the sound of the Yamaha YDP series of DP's. It's very bright. I like more of a warm sounding tone, like a natural grand. I've played some Steinways and Baldwins at the music school by my house and they didn't sound nearly as bright as the Yamaha, which I know has a lot to do with one being a real grand and one being a digital representation.

With that being said (me not like the bright tone of the Yamaha)...is there any other pianos that could be recommended? Once again, I'm just looking for opinions, not looking for you guys to tell me what to buy...just help me decide by giving me more options and facts smile

Thanks!

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#1981595 - 11/02/12 02:35 AM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2718
@John Jr,

You might want to consider a Kawai, although it is not likely you will be able to try any out at a Guitar Center store since they don't carry them. You have to find a local brick-and-mortar store that sells acoustic pianos as many will offer digitals as well.

If you purchase online and "sight unseen" as I do, then take a look here:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP3Kawai/

And, you can also add a sturdy stand, like this one:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/WS8550/

The EP3 is decent, with good sounds and action.

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#1981634 - 11/02/12 07:10 AM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
Mark NM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 24
I was in a similar situation, and went for the YDP 161.
After trying the F120 (along with the F110, its infamous predecessor), I didn't have a doubt about the right route. I still think the F120's action is quite spongy, and that its action doesn't compare to other Roland keyboards you can get in the mid to high range.
I would be more concerned about the key action rather than the built in sound, as any computer will beat a DP with the right choice of sample libraries.
Having said that, the GH action is on the average to heavy side, and is mounted by the P155, a fairly ubiquitous model you should be able to find in any store. I'd strongly suggest to test it out, and not rule out the YDP 161 so easily.

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#1981821 - 11/02/12 03:23 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
@PV88 - Thanks for the suggestions! I will look more into that DP. I like he stand too, looks very sturdy, which is something I am also looking for. I don't want to have the keyboard move around on me if I start rocking out on it, lol. Thanks again!

@Mark - I'll keep the YDP-161 in consideration. I just need to try out other boards. The Yamaha seems very bright to me and the action seems almost too stiff. That could be a good thing though. Maybe I'm just not used to the feel. The Yamahas sound good too! Don't get me wrong. I just feel it's too much on the bright side, I think I want a warmer tone. Only time will tell and trying out other DP's.

Thanks everyone for the responses! Keep them coming! You guys are helping for sure.

I've heard A LOT of good things about the Kawai boards....I just don't know if there is anywhere near me to try one, I will look into that.

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#1981930 - 11/02/12 07:00 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
Marco M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 453
Loc: Europe
The Kawai to me sounds a kind of similar to the Yamaha, while the Roland has a much darker, warmer, not so bright sound. Some therefore say that the Roland would even sound muffled. I personally love the Roland sound. It is very pleasant to the ear and gives your music, well, a warm background. I doubt that it would come out clearly in the context of a blues, jazz or rock band, alongside of electric guitars and/or drums. It is just not as bright and therefore weak to cut through such noise. It could play nicely together with a violin, flute or vocals, though.
After it was suggested to you, what do you think about connecting a software piano to your future keyboard? Do you consider it for you to be feasable to have a PC close to your piano?
_________________________
learning Piano on my Roland HP-505
before playing Drums in adults bluesband on handpicked set; before crashing E-Guitar in kids garage band; raised on home entertainment Organ and Keyboard models Eminent Solina P240, Farfisa Maharani 259R, Technics KN800, and on Mouth Organ, Recorder and Accordion

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#1985335 - 11/11/12 11:47 AM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
Thanks for the reply man!

I have considered that. I have a Mac and would love to record little pieces of music and/or hook up and use keyboard samples. With that being said, I don't really want to use a computer for my sounds, but more to just record.

I feel like this search will never end, and as soon as I find a DP I like I always seem to find one I want more, lol

I know have a few more pianos to add to my list..

Yamaha YDP-161
Roland F-120
Casio PX-850
Roland FP-4F
Kawai CL36

I've also been looking at non-cabinet options, but I'd really like the furniture on the piano, especially since I don't plan on moving this piano around.

I also can't try out any Kawai pianos...no dealers around my house...and as I said before I can't even test out half the pianos I want to...

Any other ideas guys? Thanks!

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#1985413 - 11/11/12 03:19 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
If under 1500$ I would recommend Kawai CN33 as well. And I am very happy owner of CL-36 :-) However, you should really try it before buy, pedals position may not suit you if you are taller person.


Edited by jarosujo (11/11/12 03:20 PM)
_________________________
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#1985479 - 11/11/12 07:07 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
I keep hearing good things about Kawai pianos but I can't try them out anywhere..it sucks frown

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#1985588 - 11/12/12 02:45 AM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2718
@John Jr,

If you are in the US (or, Canada) have you tried using Kawai's dealer locator page, here?

http://www.kawaius.com/locator2012.html

Or, call 1-800-421-2177
(ext 878 for assistance)

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#1985879 - 11/12/12 08:31 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
No, I didn't try that! I just looked and there is one locations about 6 miles from my house that I never even hear of before. I'll go check that place out...

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#1985885 - 11/12/12 08:58 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9674
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
John Jr, that's great!

pv88, thank you for pointing out the Kawai US dealer locator.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1985907 - 11/12/12 09:53 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2718
@John Jr,

Glad that I could be of some help, and, do let us know what you find when you have had the chance to play a few pianos.

@James,

Yes, the Kawai "dealer locater" is a good tool as it makes it easy to find a local store.

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#1988989 - 11/20/12 03:17 PM Re: Need help choosing the right DP [Re: John Jr]
John Jr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 12
Thanks for all the replies and all the help! It's really helping me narrow down my search.

I don't know if any of you like or even have heard of Ben Folds...but I'm a fan of his and love the way his Baldwin sounds. I know I can't get an acoustic grand sound without buying one..but I want to get as close to this sound as possible..

http://youtu.be/5i76r0B3o1c

Any ideas on a DP that sounds similar to that?

Once again, I really only want a piano sound...don't need any effects, or horns, bells, guitars, organs, etc..

Thanks guys!!! Being a big help!

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