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#1981137 - 10/31/12 09:47 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1207
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Are you after something simple that you can play yourself and analyse easily?


Yes

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Are you after something more demanding harmonically but without the scale of a full blown sonata while you consoldiate your skills?


Yes

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Or do you want to continue with the sonata and look at some of the major works?


Yes
____________________________

Sorry, Richard. Not trying to be a smarty, but it is all good for me and really have no preference on the above. Although, the way you have listed them seems appropriate. The first Bach Prelude No. 1 we did, for example was a good pace for me, as I could actually read it and learn to play it and still keep up with the analysis. But, I am surely not going to do that with all of them. So, for me, I am really quite fine with whatever direction is preferred and will still be keen to follow.

My choice from the selection of Sonatas you have listed would be the Beethoven, Pathetique. Of the others I have no real leaning but may suggest we stay with Clementi for now, but on a greater work, before venturing off too quickly.

Just my two cents ...


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#1981422 - 11/01/12 04:27 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
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Loc: Ireland (ex England)
I can live with that.

Let's work in tranches and do an easy/playable piece, something more adventurous then another sonata. Then we can look at the next tranche.

How about Mendelssohn's Op. 102 No. 6, then Schubert's Moment Musical No. 6 and then Haydn's Sonata no. 50? I want to keep the sonatas in a chronological/progressive order.
_________________________
Richard

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#1981442 - 11/01/12 04:57 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Registered: 05/29/12
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Originally Posted By: zrtf90

How about Mendelssohn's Op. 102 No. 6, then Schubert's Moment Musical No. 6 and then Haydn's Sonata no. 50? I want to keep the sonatas in a chronological/progressive order.


Sounds terrific to me. I just happen to be working on Mendelssohn Op. 102 No. 6. What an amazing coincidence wink

I'd be happy to come back with all the chords if you like (say up to m18 to start?) I've been meaning to do this anyway, but just haven't yet.

Just let me know how you want to proceed and I shall follow.

I believe PS88, is still looking more at Sonatina No. 6, so happy to wait a bit before we throttle ahead.

Brilliant, Thx
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#1981445 - 11/01/12 05:06 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Not such an amazing coincidence - I checked the recital thread to see which one you were on! smile

When everyone's ready you can do a full analysis - chords, keys, structure, themes. Anything you can find. Do you have your checklist?
_________________________
Richard

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#1981462 - 11/01/12 06:02 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Registered: 05/29/12
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I was able to retrieve it among my archives and have pasted again here for everyone's refreshment and easier reference.

Looks like I've got some work to do, but will be ready when all others are.

Giant disclosure here, we are starting in the key of C Major and the first chord is ... wait for it ... C

However, I know I am racing way ahead and still need to understand what this Mr. Mendelssohn gent was all about. I really know nothing about him. But we all soon will.

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Whenever I analyse a piece of music I go through a sort of checklist. Sometimes something jumps out at me and I just go with it.

I look at:
The composer, the title, key sig., no. of pages, no. of movements, metre, tempo, dynamic indications, texture, etc.

I try to date it within about a decade.

I look for major landmarks and make quick key scheme diagram.

In some sections it might be worth looking at a harmonic analysis but in tonal music that's not as important as key. It's more useful for The Beatles. I only usually look at the harmony in cadences or 'interesting spots'. Of course, I do a lot by ear and sight singing; even when reading Symphonies in the miniature score series I can imagine the whole orchestra.

I look for devices; figures, themes, and motifs that recur in various guises, speeded up, slowed down, inverted, backwards, etc.

I try to break it into sections, look at the proportions of the various parts, contrasts between sections, tension and release, unity and so on.

How does it differ from most pieces in that style/genre/form/key etc.

...

I listen closely to professional performances for anything I might have missed.

grin
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#1981482 - 11/01/12 06:47 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Online   content
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At one point we'll need access to the music, of course. smile

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#1981497 - 11/01/12 07:26 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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_________________________

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#1981498 - 11/01/12 07:31 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
PianoStudent88 Offline
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(cross-posted)

Here is the IMSLP page for Mendelssohn's Opus 102.


Edited by PianoStudent88 (11/01/12 07:32 PM)
_________________________
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#1981772 - 11/02/12 01:22 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Just some preliminary background information which is perhaps of some value as we get things underway again with Mendelssohn OP 102. These are just excerpts from Wikipedia and full encyclopedia content is here.

Jakob Ludwig Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy generally known in English-speaking countries, as Felix Mendelssohn
  • born on 3 February 1809, Hamburg, Germany into a prominent Jewish family
  • recognized early as a musical prodigy
  • was the second of four children; his older sister Fanny also displayed exceptional and precocious musical talent

Fanny became a well-known pianist and amateur composer; originally Abraham (father, a banker) had thought that she, rather than Felix, would be the more musical. However, at that time, it was not considered proper, by either Abraham or Felix, for a woman to have a career in music, so Fanny remained an active, but non-professional musician. Abraham was also disinclined to allow Felix to follow a musical career until it became clear that he intended seriously to dedicate himself to it.

Abraham Mendelssohn renounced the Jewish religion; Felix and his siblings were first brought up without religious education, and were baptised as Lutherans in 1816, at which time Felix took the additional names Jakob Ludwig. Abraham and his wife Lea were baptised in 1822, formally adopting the surname Mendelssohn Bartholdy (which they had used since 1812) for themselves and their children.

Like Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart before him, Mendelssohn was regarded as a child prodigy. After the family moved to Berlin, all four Mendelssohn children studied piano with Ludwig Berger, who was himself a former student of Muzio Clementi.

Felix was a prolific composer from an early age. As an adolescent, his works were often performed at home with a private orchestra for the associates of his wealthy parents amongst the intellectual elite of Berlin. Between the ages of 12 and 14, Mendelssohn wrote 12 string symphonies for such concerts. These works were ignored for over a century, but are now recorded and occasionally played in concerts. His works show his study of Baroque and early classical music. His fugues and chorales especially reflect a tonal clarity and use of counterpoint reminiscent of Johann Sebastian Bach, by whose music he was deeply influenced.

In the course of ten visits to Britain during his life, totalling about 20 months, Mendelssohn won a strong following, sufficient for him to make a deep impression on British musical life.

After a long period of relative denigration due to changing musical tastes and anti-Semitism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, his creative originality has now been recognised and re-evaluated. He is now among the most popular composers of the Romantic era.

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#1981785 - 11/02/12 02:04 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Greener


Greener, I really like this performance.

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#1981857 - 11/02/12 04:20 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words, while perfect in their own way, take ternary form as the structure, rather like Clementi's rondos. They are a theme, an expansion of it and a restatement of it. Some of them have little introductions and codas, eg. op. 30 no. 3. But they do not test the emotions with dissonance nor stray far from the beaten path.

They are the musical equivalent of a sandwich. Nutritious and perfectly made, but not adventurous fare, harmonically, lyrically, or structurally.


This helps, as I would otherwise have a very tough time in labeling this. So, will just present some findings and request direction on what to call it. If it is a sandwich, I see a few ingredients (perhaps a turkey bacon club) but will otherwise spare you the analogy.

M1-M4 phrase (call it phrase A)
M5-M8 phrase (call it phrase B)

M9-M14 this is playing with and expanding on phrase B

Then M15-M18 is restating (albeit differently) phrase A

That is as far as I will go for now to try and get terminology corrected. Also, this is one clear larger section up to this point and is a good resting place. The theme and phrases within it, are defined above (I believe anyway,) and then further expanded on in the next half (or so.)

I also have all the chords figured out up to M18. This was not as easy as I thought it would be. And pretty sure, you may not be so keen on all my selections. Should I post these?
It is mainly for my own understanding and we haven't looked at chords it awhile, so not sure if interested. Happy to otherwise though.







Edited by Greener (11/02/12 04:25 PM)

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#1981874 - 11/02/12 05:03 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Online   content
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Registered: 12/11/07
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This is a new kind of music for me for analyzing so what follows is mostly subjective. Btw, it coincides with what Greener just wrote (the restatement in m. 15).

There is a main theme or subject or (name?) going from m. 1 - 2, half a phrase I guess. This occurs two more times: m. 15 - 16, and m. 25 - 26. I think it's a significant part of the piece. There is also a prominent rhythm that we first encounter in m. 1 that I hear as "dah deeda da da" and versions of this also shape the music.

I hear a kind of main call-answer, where this main theme is the "call", and you might have "call-answer", or "call-answer-answer-answer". Sometimes there may be a secondary kind of call and answer, but the ones that really stick out are the places where that theme pops up.

Main sections for me for now:
M. 1 - 8 feel "final" at the end of m. 8.
M. 9 - 14 feels like a second phrase which is responding to the first part, but it's independent. The final chord both concludes that section, and leads on to the next.
M. 15 - 24 tentatively as the next section, starting with that theme.
M. 25 again has that theme, and could have ended on m. 28, but m. 29 - 33 make the end much more interesting with what he does harmonically.

This may be off because it's subjective.

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#1981963 - 11/02/12 08:22 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: keystring]
Greener Offline

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I get everything your saying KS, almost. The only big difference I see is that you did not see any significance, or closure at m18, where I did.

Going to go ahead with some chords now; I used the commas to try and indicate which of the four beats.

No need to go over this unless you really want to. I'm posting mainly to help me get documented and help figure out what is going on with modulation. Starting from C Major, I believe we are moving through G Major, C Major, F Major and back to C Major.

M1 - C,,,C/G
M2 - F/C,,Dm6/C
M3 - C,C/E,F6,C/E
M4 - F/D,G7,,Bdim/C
M5 - C,,D/C,
M6 - D/C - G/B,F/A - G,D7/F#, D7/F#
M7 - D7/G,F7b9/G (rootless, or F#dim/G),G,C7b9/C# (rootless)
M8 - D6,D7,G9sus4,G
M9 - G, G/F - C/E, Dm7
M10 - G7,Am7 - Bdim,C - F6/D,C/E - F
M11 - C,C7,F/A,Gm7
M12 - C7 - C9, C7 - C6, A/C#
M13 - Dm,,G/B
M14 - C,,F#dim/A (or rootless Ab7b9/A)
M15 - C/G
M16 - F6/G,G,Dm6/C,C
M17 - C/A,E7/G#,C/A,F6
M18 - C/G, C



Edited by Greener (11/02/12 08:48 PM)

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#1981984 - 11/02/12 09:34 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Greener
I get everything your saying KS, almost. The only big difference I see is that you did not see any significance, or closure at m18, where I did.

I did see a closure there - just forgot to mention it. Thanks.

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#1982079 - 11/03/12 07:47 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6

M1-4 Phrase 1 (2+2) in C
M5-8 Phrase 2 in G
M9-14 Phrase 3 holding at 12 on A Major, then 13 G major, and 14 a rootless F7b9 (A dim 7) closing with
M14-18 Phrase 1 with a modified ending

M19-28 = M14-18 with extras in the accompaniment

M29-33 = coda

This is shorter than most of these SWW's but the treatment is very similar. I've just read them all up to Op. 67 and all the ones without repeat bars follow a similar pattern though with obvious differences in scale.

I can't help loving these wonderful melodies but I do yearn for something a bit diferent now and then.

Your chords, Jeff, look really painful.

If you look around a little you'll see the bass agrees with the notes that follow rather than the ones being being played with it. This is Mendelssohn's version of the melodic appoggiatura.

Look at M7 mid point. If you drop the F# in RH and use the following E you have a simple C# dim. Or at the end of M4 the BDF over the C bass just resolves to a straight C.

____________________________

I've been quiet recently. I have now submitted my recital recording. The final (chosen) take shows the frustration I've been having hooking my old piano up to a modern PC. I'm without a right channel on my audio out and don't know whether it's the soundcard, the piano or the cable.

I can't monitor the recording on the PC while it's recording I have to get to the end and listen afterwards to see whether a mistake was noticeable or not by which time you think it probably was and have lost heart in the take anyway.

The song (another without words but not Mendelssohn) lost it's beauty after playing it over twenty times a day for two days (and that after the two weeks of practise preparing for the recording anyway).

Recording is normally a stressful business ("If I don't get it right this time...") but when you're unfamiliar with the equipment ("If it doesn't record right this time...") no amount of practise will help. I think I've overplayed it - no wrong notes but no beautiful phrasing and the climax sounds angry!

I may leave it a couple of days now that I think I have the set-up in a workable state and try again before the deadline using my 'magic number' to change it. Shifting a PC to a temporary table far from a network cable's reach and without a comfortable area for keyboard and mouse is not something I want to get used to more than four times a year! It's effectively a day without a PC plus an excuse for my wife to mention dusting! Ah, me.
_________________________
Richard

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#1982100 - 11/03/12 09:03 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

...
M9-14 Phrase 3 holding at 12 on A Major, then 13 G major, and 14 a rootless F7b9 (A dim 7) closing with
...

Your chords, Jeff, look really painful.

I have been told before, that I am a sucker for punishment;

OK, I see the F7b9 now in M14 and like this. I wanted to call the Adim7 an F#dim7 instead as I thought this would be in better alignment with diminished naming F#,A,C,Eb/A vs. A,C,Eb,F#, but happy F7b9. As suggested, I will see about simplifying others. It is not a tough piece to play, but was tough trying to label everything.
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

I have now submitted my recital recording. The final (chosen) take shows the frustration I've been having hooking my old piano up to a modern PC.

Recording is normally a stressful business ...
I may leave it a couple of days now that I think I have the set-up in a workable state and try again before the deadline using my 'magic number' to change it.
... It's effectively a day without a PC plus an excuse for my wife to mention dusting! Ah, me.

This is exciting. Glad to see you will be in this recital, Richard. I went and had a listen to the piece you will be submitting ... a very lovely piece and nice choice.

Sorry, to hear of the frustration you're encountering with the recording set up. I'm going to side with your wife on this one though, and suggest it is time to start dusting smile

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#1982201 - 11/03/12 01:09 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
keystring Online   content
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Richard - off topic - recording. My DP "remembers" playing, but I can't bring it into the computer. I catch it on my iPod and then e-mail it to myself. Then I drag it into GoldWave and resave it as an mp3. I used to stick a microphone close to the piano which brought it directly into GoldWave. If I had to do several takes, I just isolated the take that I wanted to keep. This may be totally unhelpful.


Edited by keystring (11/03/12 01:10 PM)

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#1982293 - 11/03/12 05:24 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: keystring]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2393
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Originally Posted By: keystring
Richard - off topic - recording. My DP "remembers" playing, but I can't bring it into the computer. I catch it on my iPod and then e-mail it to myself. Then I drag it into GoldWave and resave it as an mp3. I used to stick a microphone close to the piano which brought it directly into GoldWave. If I had to do several takes, I just isolated the take that I wanted to keep. This may be totally unhelpful.

Not unhelpful! It's a comfort to know others have problems. I have an eight track recording studio on tape and plenty of casssette recorders but they're older than the piano (32 years vs 23 years) and I wanted to avoid tape hiss. My cables mostly end in phono or 1/4" jacks. My sound card uses mini jacks. I have a best option of three cables joined together to get from phono out on the piano to mini stereo in on the computer.

The submission was designed to highlight these kinds of issues as I've committed to the RST Mendelssohn recital. It's served its purpose! I have new cables on order.
_________________________
Richard

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#1982563 - 11/04/12 10:52 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
Greener Offline

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Mendelssohn; Op. 102, No. 6

As I listen to the performance of this work, below, I notice the definite disparity of tempo throughout. Some noticeable slow downs and speed ups. It would not be possible, for example, to line up a metronome beat with this performance.

"espressivo" is not denoted in the score as it was in the Chopin, prelude. But, is very evident in this performance. Also, I think it is very effective in strengthening the dramatic and emotional appeal.

So, just wanted to ask for opinions of this. If I were to try to perform this with an even rhythm/tempo throughout, I believe it would lack the dramatic and emotional appeal that this performance achieves.

I understand (and quite like BTW) the concept that the composer's work is done and that the performers work has yet to be done. Furthermore, I've always been inclined to play things my way. But, I am now trying to tighten up and apply a more disciplined/reasonable approach to expression.

I guess my question, thus, is: How far should I / could I go with timing variance in a production like this one?

[/quote]

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#1982571 - 11/04/12 11:21 AM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2393
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OT.
Originally Posted By: Greener
I went and had a listen to the piece you will be submitting...

I've updated it since. I think it's a better job. How did you hear it?

Originally Posted By: Greener
I'm going to side with your wife on this one though, and suggest it is time to start dusting

Done and, er, dusted! But thanks for you support wink

Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6
We haven't seen much use of dotted rhythm in Clementi and where we did, it was the predominant rhythm in two of the gentle middle movements.

Now we're seeing it thrown in the middle of otherwise square crotchet/quaver themes where it adds a lilting and lyrical touch. Every phrase makes use of it. It's preponderant in the phrases throughout the six books.

In the baroque the music was played in reams of quavers and semiquavers because the instruments didn't have much sustain (compare guitar music with that of the mandolin). In classical music the rhythm was broken up more squarely adding quavers in among the crotchets. Now, in the Romantic period, we're seeing yet more diversity in the rhythm (going dotty, if you will smile ).


It would be worth experimenting with how much to lean on the dotted notes and what effect it has on the melody in the different places it's used. Sometimes it's used to break two similar chords, e.g. M5, and other times to add to the appogiatura effect, e.g. M4. What other uses does he make of it?

Originally Posted By: Greener
How far should I / could I go with timing variance in a production like this one?

The rule is simple. You get the piece to a point where you CAN play it in time and then you play it with the timing you WANT. It's about you being in control and not letting technical difficulties dictate the tempo.

If you want to stretch the definition of rubato by all means slow it down where you want to and bring out the piquant effect but don't just cover a technical difficulty.

I don't agree with this 'play it the way the composer intended' malarkey because the composers were playing to be listened to as much as saying something and they were obviously saying it in a way that was fashionable at the time. So play it now in a way that suits our preferred way of listening. My two ha'p'orth - add salt to taste!
_________________________
Richard

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#1982597 - 11/04/12 12:26 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Originally Posted By: Greener
I went and had a listen to the piece you will be submitting...

I've updated it since. I think it's a better job. How did you hear it?

I have not heard your performance, Richard, although I am very much looking forward to it. I just searched the work on Google, as I was not familiar with the name, and had a listen. I'm sure your performance will be better than the one I heard ... it's a lovely piece.
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Originally Posted By: Greener
I'm going to side with your wife on this one though, and suggest it is time to start dusting

Done and, er, dusted! But thanks for you support wink

You got it, anytime, and glad the dusting is now under control, and working out recording bugs to boot thumb
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

If you want to stretch the definition of rubato by all means slow it down where you want to and bring out the piquant effect but don't just cover a technical difficulty.

I don't agree with this 'play it the way the composer intended' malarkey because the composers were playing to be listened to as much as saying something and they were obviously saying it in a way that was fashionable at the time. So play it now in a way that suits our preferred way of listening. My two ha'p'orth - add salt to taste!

OK, this helps, a lot. I learned a lot of rubato when I was young and began applying it where it did not belong. A bad habit I picked up as a result of not having a disciplined approach to learning. So, I am more cognizant of this now. But, there are instances where it IS appropriate.

Now, I have a better definition of when and how to apply it when it is appropriate.
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#1982602 - 11/04/12 12:47 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Greener
Mendelssohn; Op. 102, No. 6

As I listen to the performance of this work, below, I notice the definite disparity of tempo throughout. Some noticeable slow downs and speed ups. It would not be possible, for example, to line up a metronome beat with this performance.

"espressivo" is not denoted in the score as it was in the Chopin, prelude. But, is very evident in this performance. Also, I think it is very effective in strengthening the dramatic and emotional appeal.

I totally loved the way this was played. Rubato or using time expressively is something that I am trying to get a handle on (with help). It appears that your expressiveness in timing needs to be tempered by the need to maintain pulse, which I think is more the rhythm from measure to measure, or maybe of significant beats. In learning to play this way it seems, like Richard says, you first have to be able to play it accurately without rubato. I think you need to know why you are doing what you do. Could we think of this as similar to what an effective orator does, who uses pitch, volume, and timing to keep the attention of the audience?

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#1982610 - 11/04/12 12:59 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: keystring]
zrtf90 Offline
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Mendelssohn; Op. 102, No. 6
Originally Posted By: keystring
Could we think of this as similar to what an effective orator does, who uses pitch, volume, and timing to keep the attention of the audience?

That's a good analogy, keystring. The delivery changes with the mood you're in, the intended audience and other circumstances to a spontaneous recital.

I know my own performances/interpretations differ after watching a weepy movie and playing chess.
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Richard

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#1982650 - 11/04/12 02:45 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Mendelssohn; Op. 102, No.6
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

It would be worth experimenting with how much to lean on the dotted notes and what effect it has on the melody in the different places it's used. Sometimes it's used to break two similar chords, e.g. M5, and other times to add to the appogiatura effect, e.g. M4. What other uses does he make of it?


To suspend the changes?

M11 - Gm7 to C7 in M12
M12 - A/C# to Dm in M13 (a lovely change here and I think prolonged and suspended by the dotted quarter)

Question: M19, M21, M28 or M31 for example. Am I really supposed to hold the dotted note longer then the other notes just below it that are not dotted? This is going to be a tricky business ...

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#1982667 - 11/04/12 03:19 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6

Originally Posted By: Greener
To suspend the changes?

Isn't that the appoggiatura effect?

What's he doing with it M1?

Originally Posted By: Greener
Question: M19, M21, M28 or M31 for example. Am I really supposed to hold the dotted note longer then the other notes just below it that are not dotted?
Imagine the dotted quaver as three semi's tied. It's just like quarter notes in one hand and eighths in the other. Take each measure on it's own.

Re-write the measure if you like with a half-inch between each semi so you get an easier to read visual of the rhythm. Once you get it right mechanically (and too slow to count) you can start playing at a countable tempo. Playing at a countable tempo means two things: 1. you've got it and 2. all you need to do now is play it often enough for it to reach recital tempo, naturally and in its own time, just from consistent repetition.
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#1982681 - 11/04/12 03:52 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6
Originally Posted By: zrtf90

What's he doing with it M1?


How do I explain it? It sounds more melodic, floating, dancing vs., what it would be without the dotted eighth.

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Imagine the dotted quaver as three semi's tied. It's just like quarter notes in one hand and eighths in the other.


OK, this shouldn't be so bad. I've looked at all the places where this occurs and most will actually be straight forward. But, I had been omitting to this point.

In M31 it starts with a chord containing a dotted "g" and the very next eighth chord also contains a "g" again. How is this possible? It must be a misprint. I either need to tie them (there is no tie) or play the g again in which case the first g should not have been dotted.

Or, what am I missing?




Edited by Greener (11/04/12 03:54 PM)
Edit Reason: M31 not M30

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#1982686 - 11/04/12 04:01 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: Greener]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2393
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Mendelssohn, Op. 102/6
Originally Posted By: Greener
In M31 it starts with a chord containing a dotted "g" and the very next eighth chord also contains a "g" again. How is this possible? It must be a misprint. I either need to tie them (there is no tie) or play the g again in which case the first g should not have been dotted.

Or, what am I missing?

That's a dot over/under the note not alongside it. Those indicate staccato - like the eighth notes in M2.

The only 'dotted' notes in M30 are the F and A on beat 3.
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Richard

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#1982694 - 11/04/12 04:28 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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Registered: 05/29/12
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Originally Posted By: zrtf90

The only 'dotted' notes in M30 are the F and A on beat 3.


It's M31 in question. Sorry, you may have retrieved before I corrected.

First beat is C chord in RH with notes E,G,C and G and C are dotted. The C I get, but the G I don't get since ...

this is immediately followed by G,Bb in RH, C,E in LH. So, still on C chord and all within the first beat.

Plus they are all Staccato.
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#1982710 - 11/04/12 05:04 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
zrtf90 Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2393
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Ah, now I see. That's a misprint. The G is definitely not dotted in my score.
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Richard

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#1982713 - 11/04/12 05:07 PM Re: Classical Sonata Analysis [Re: zrtf90]
Greener Offline

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grin
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