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#1980932 - 10/31/12 01:16 PM
Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Irvine, CA
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For Clementi Sonatina Op. 36...... Which of these is official way of writing the title?
Sonatina in C Major Op.36, No.3: I: Spiritoso Sonatina in C Major Op.36, No.3, 1st movement (Spiritoso) Sonatina in C Major Op.36, #3, Spiritoso
Any other suggestions?
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#1980938 - 10/31/12 01:28 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6673
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
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When I'm printing programs, I usually go with #1:
Sonatina in C Major Op.36, No.3: I: Spiritoso
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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#1980939 - 10/31/12 01:30 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: John v.d.Brook]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 135
Loc: Santa Barbara
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When I'm printing programs, I usually go with #1:
Sonatina in C Major Op.36, No.3: I: Spiritoso +1 I think this is how it is listed in most syllabi and videos as well.
_________________________
A linguistics major who loves piano and knows too much theory/history without knowing how to play it as well as he wants to be able to.
Let's hope that changes. Taught piano for almost two years and currently working on: "Going back to the basics..."
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#1981028 - 10/31/12 06:01 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1624
Loc: CA
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I usually do this (let's see if it lets me do it here):
Sonatina in C, Op. 36, no. 3 Spiritoso
Well, the preview doesn't show the indent (I indent Spiritoso 5 spaces).
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed. M.M., Piano
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#1981056 - 10/31/12 06:45 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 74
Loc: Europe
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For someone who's not a musician, I think that version two is easier to understand.
_________________________
The piano keys are black and white, But they sound like a million colours in your mind. (Katie Melua)
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#1981142 - 10/31/12 10:04 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Irvine, CA
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Sonatina in C, Op. 36, no. 3 Spiritoso
.....
the letter "n" of "no." need capital letter or small letter for official way?
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#1981144 - 10/31/12 10:10 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1624
Loc: CA
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Small
_________________________
B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed. M.M., Piano
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#1981165 - 10/31/12 11:06 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Irvine, CA
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Compare this Sonatina in C Major, Op.36, no.3: I: Spiritoso
to this
Sonatina in C Major, Op.36, no.3: I - Spiritoso
Which one is better?
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#1981198 - 11/01/12 01:58 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/29/12
Posts: 135
Loc: Santa Barbara
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Sonatina in C Major, Op.36, no.3: I - Spiritoso
personally.
_________________________
A linguistics major who loves piano and knows too much theory/history without knowing how to play it as well as he wants to be able to.
Let's hope that changes. Taught piano for almost two years and currently working on: "Going back to the basics..."
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#1981215 - 11/01/12 04:32 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Irvine, CA
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I am volunteering my time to create a program for local competition and for those playing same pieces, their teachers enter as follow:
Sonatina in C Major, op. 36, #1, 1st movement Sonatina in C Major, Op. 36, No. 1-1st Move. Sonatina in C, Op. 36 #1- Allegro
This is Clementi's Op.36. All these three entries is referring to same piece.
I am just amaze about how many different ways of writing the title of the pieces. I think somehow music teachers should unify the format of writing the title of the pieces so that no confusion happen.
So, would the correct writing should be: Sonatina in C Major, Op.36, no.1: I - Allegro
Is this correct?
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#1981342 - 11/01/12 01:23 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 877
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
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EZ, it's nice that you care so much, but you're a little stuck on the idea of "correct" here. There is not one correct or official way of writing what you wish to write. I've written program notes for many arts organizations, and can assure you of this.
You are on the right track, but so were those other teachers. The goals are mainly reader understanding and consistency, I'd say.
I would probably echo Minniemay by suggesting the use of two lines, and write something like this:
Sonatina in C Major, Op. 36, No. 1 [Indent] Allegro (first movement)
I find the use of a colon, a Roman numeral, and a dash in your version all slow my reading and comprehension. OTH, it does you save a line versus my version. So it's up to you. You wouldn't have to add the parenthetical words "first movement" if you don't like them.
My only real suggestion to you is to capitalize the letter "n" of the abbreviated word "Number," since you capitalized the "o" of the abbreviated word "Opus." But conversely you could just as readily use a small "o" for "opus" and a small "n" for "number."
Good luck. This stuff is indeed annoying and fussy, but ultimately you just make some choices and get that program printed. If you can do that without typos, that's already quite an achievement! :-)
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#1981372 - 11/01/12 02:20 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 4559
Loc: Orange County, CA
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Just be consistent. There is not one "correct" way to write sonatina titles. I do programs for my branch every year, and I've decided that piano teachers are very bad at following directions, either that or they don't read directions. So it's up to the program-maker to clean up all the errors. We have teachers who spell "Beethoven" incorrectly! You get a lot of those errors when the majority of the teachers' first language is not English.
You will not please everybody. Some older people are adamant about the way they capitalize titles since they've been using the same capitalization rules for the past 40 years. Just tell them to get lost. Or, better yet, ask them to volunteer making the programs next year!
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1981376 - 11/01/12 02:40 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: AZNpiano]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6673
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
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Some older people are adamant about the way they capitalize titles since they've been using the same capitalization rules for the past 40 years. Just tell them to get lost. Or you could learn from them. But the wisdom of age is often lost on the exuberance of youth. It cuts both ways!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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#1981399 - 11/01/12 03:23 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: John v.d.Brook]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 4559
Loc: Orange County, CA
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Or you could learn from them. But the wisdom of age is often lost on the exuberance of youth. It cuts both ways! My point is that writing conventions change. Grammar--or in this case capitalization, punctuation, and spacing--does change. The prescriptive grammar of yesteryear is no longer taught in schools, and, for better or for worse, it is being replaced by a system of descriptive grammar to reflect how people actually use the language.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1981431 - 11/01/12 04:41 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: AZNpiano]
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9000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 9387
Loc: Canada
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Or you could learn from them. But the wisdom of age is often lost on the exuberance of youth. It cuts both ways! My point is that writing conventions change. Grammar--or in this case capitalization, punctuation, and spacing--does change. The prescriptive grammar of yesteryear is no longer taught in schools, and, for better or for worse, it is being replaced by a system of descriptive grammar to reflect how people actually use the language. AZN, where are the standards being established in the field of music? Is there a central place that oversees such standards? Would these be international in English speaking countries? In my present field I have to adhere to the standards of various professions, and they often do have a central body which actually publish such standards, especially when there are changes. So when you say they have changed, then it would be good for everyone to be up to speed if there is some body overseeing this.
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#1981446 - 11/01/12 05:09 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: keystring]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 4559
Loc: Orange County, CA
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AZN, where are the standards being established in the field of music? Is there a central place that oversees such standards? Would these be international in English speaking countries? In my present field I have to adhere to the standards of various professions, and they often do have a central body which actually publish such standards, especially when there are changes. So when you say they have changed, then it would be good for everyone to be up to speed if there is some body overseeing this. I don't think there is one "standard" in music. As soon as you start using terms like "standard," you get into the field of "correct" vs. "incorrect." I think classical music as an academic subject area is truly blessed by not having an authoritative "standard."
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1981715 - 11/02/12 11:34 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13070
Loc: Iowa City, IA
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I always do this. It looks cleaner to me.
Sonatina in C Major, Op. 36#3 I. Spiritoso
Or if space is tight:
Spiritoso, from Sonatina in C Major, Op. 36#3
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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#1981733 - 11/02/12 12:01 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: keystring]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 1343
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AZN, where are the standards being established in the field of music? Is there a central place that oversees such standards? Would these be international in English speaking countries? In my present field I have to adhere to the standards of various professions, and they often do have a central body which actually publish such standards, especially when there are changes. So when you say they have changed, then it would be good for everyone to be up to speed if there is some body overseeing this.
Surely there are scholarly papers in the field of music. Publications will be formatted in a consistent style whether it be MLA, APA, COS, Chicago Manual of Style or something else.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.
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#1981832 - 11/02/12 03:35 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2565
Loc: Kentucky
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I would not capitalize M in the word major. Examples: http://www.pianotexas.org/2011/program_notes.aspEdit: This is just a personal preference. I think there is more visual appeal when the words "major", "minor", "sharp" and "flat" are not capitalized.
Edited by Ann in Kentucky (11/02/12 05:46 PM)
_________________________
piano teacher
"She played upon her music box a fancy air by chance, And straightaway all her polka dots began a lively dance." -- Peter Newell
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#1981973 - 11/02/12 09:09 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Irvine, CA
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http://kjos.vo.llnwd.net/o28/pdf/GP606_toc.pdfPlease refer to the above Keith Snell link. I prefer this style that he has in his book: Sonatina in F, Op.36, No.4 [Indent] III. Allegro vivaceI was a graduate assistant back in graduate school and my job was to create programs for weekly Friday noon student recital and monthly Tuesday night faculty recitals. Each professor in my department should give me the title of the pieces that they or their students will be performing and I just copy and paste into the program that I design. I have to say that I never have a problem with my professors back in my graduate school and their way of writing the titles. They are following the above format that I paste in the link. However, I am just amaze to see how "not consistent" each piano teachers are in my town. Out of 50 plus teachers, only 5 teachers are consistent with their entries and follow the above format that I "learned" during graduate school. Speaking of "standard format" don't you think that we should be consistent in referring the title of the pieces just like MLA, APA other academic journal? I am seriously think that music educators should talk about this to standardize the format. I am not talking about to standardize the interpretation of the piece here, I am sure our field is blessed with a lot of freedom. However, I think there should be only one way to write the title of the music. For example, why you think Kochel categories Mozart's music? I am not sure the answer, but I personally think it is because Mozart has too many pieces with same name and it is hard to distinguish among each other. So, he standardize Mozart's music and every one after him use "K" numbers for Mozart's music. What is your opinions on this?
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#1982041 - 11/03/12 02:19 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: Ann in Kentucky]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 4559
Loc: Orange County, CA
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What? No space after the period in Op? Op.1? Op.2? The point is: it's rather silly to split hair at this juncture. As long as the formatting is done consistently throughout the program, and all the important information is there, I don't see any problems.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1982063 - 11/03/12 05:28 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 877
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
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EZ, you'll have to decide what you like, and what your audience might like, and what looks good on the page. AZN and I bless you with freedom.
If freedom is not your thing, or you have a tight deadline, go with Keith Snell.
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#1982095 - 11/03/12 08:53 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: AZNpiano]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2565
Loc: Kentucky
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What? No space after the period in Op? Op.1? Op.2? The point is: it's rather silly to split hair at this juncture. As long as the formatting is done consistently throughout the program, and all the important information is there, I don't see any problems. I agree that consistency is what matters. And I agree that a space is needed after Op ideally. But looks like it was omitted to allow space for 2 columns to fit on the program consistently. Is it splitting hairs to have an opinion? It's like choosing color for a room. Some people give it a lot of consideration, and others don't think it matters much. IMO using capitals for Major and Minor look like shouting. It may be correct according to APA, but aesthetically is not pleasing to me. Does it matter much? No, it doesn't matter to most people. And will look fine as long as there is consistency. BTW, ezpiano did ask "Any other suggestions?". That is what I was answering. I am thinking how Americans love movies with a preponderance of explosions in them. And naturally the American preference would be to capitalize each word. I just think there are more artsy options to consider.
Edited by Ann in Kentucky (11/03/12 09:40 AM)
_________________________
piano teacher
"She played upon her music box a fancy air by chance, And straightaway all her polka dots began a lively dance." -- Peter Newell
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#1982099 - 11/03/12 09:03 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: Peter K. Mose]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2565
Loc: Kentucky
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After thinking it over, I admit that sometimes I get a kick out of quibbling with you folks on PW.
This thread has shown me that I need to get a manual or two about editorial style to see what is officially being said about these matters.
Edited by Ann in Kentucky (11/03/12 02:28 PM) Edit Reason: change of heart
_________________________
piano teacher
"She played upon her music box a fancy air by chance, And straightaway all her polka dots began a lively dance." -- Peter Newell
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#1982122 - 11/03/12 10:18 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 1343
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Absolutely, be consistent in a document.
A google search for: editorial style musical work will give you a bunch of possibilities.
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.
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#1982273 - 11/03/12 04:01 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: Ann in Kentucky]
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4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 4559
Loc: Orange County, CA
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This thread has shown me that I need to get a manual or two about editorial style to see what is officially being said about these matters. No, that stuff is best left to the "ivory tower" academics. Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll be fine. No one is going to fire you as a piano teacher for missing the space between "Op." and the number.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1982296 - 11/03/12 05:34 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 529
Loc: Irvine, CA
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No, no one will fire me if I missing the space between Op. and the number. They will just think that I am being too stubborn and not professional enough to fix the mistakes that I made.
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#1982297 - 11/03/12 05:36 PM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: AZNpiano]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2565
Loc: Kentucky
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This thread has shown me that I need to get a manual or two about editorial style to see what is officially being said about these matters. No, that stuff is best left to the "ivory tower" academics. Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll be fine. No one is going to fire you as a piano teacher for missing the space between "Op." and the number. True. This thread did make me realize though how much I pop off with my opinion...quibbling just to have something to say. Anyway, I went to the library this afternoon to see what editorial style guidelines I could find. I discovered that the book I wanted is in the reference section at different library. While at the library, though, the book Trolling caught my attention. It was next to fly fishing books. Now I get the origin of the expression "trolling".
_________________________
piano teacher
"She played upon her music box a fancy air by chance, And straightaway all her polka dots began a lively dance." -- Peter Newell
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#1982444 - 11/04/12 01:15 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: ezpiano.org]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 877
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
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Many of us trolls here on PW, Ann...
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#1982473 - 11/04/12 04:22 AM
Re: Official way to write title of Sonata pieces
[Re: Ann in Kentucky]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2310
Loc: Andorra
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While at the library, though, the book Trolling caught my attention. It was next to fly fishing books. Now I get the origin of the expression "trolling". In fishin', ain't the word "trawlin'" ?
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