Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai MP6 vs MP10 vs Roland FP4F vs Roland FP7F

Hello Everybody ,

I'm totally new to this forum which sounds full of passionate musicians.

I've been playing the piano for about 13 years now. I own an acoustic piano that I love : weinbach upright 115cm. unfortunately I have moved out of my Parent's house to a flat.

I'm honestly never been a big fan of DP, however if I still wanna play I'll have to buy one. I play mainly : Classical and rag time pieces. My needs are :

- A portable DP
- A good action
- Great Piano sounds (I don't think I'll really use others (see next point below)
- Using Midi or any USB link to a computer in order to use a sampler software and my DP to play various realistic sounds of real instruments such as cello, violin, sitar etc...
- Being able to record myself, in MP3 or Wav
- I don't really mind speakers, I'll play for myself with headphones mainly.


With my researches I've seen some models that look really interresting to me :

- Kawai MP6

- Kawai MP10

- Roland FP4F

- Roland FP7F


Maybe you can suggest me other models that might be good to try out.

In a shop I've tried the kawai ES7 that is supposed to have an improved version of the MP6 keyboard and also have a better sound. In term of sound I couldn't really feel any big difference... However I didn't like the action of the ES7 compared to the MP6. I couldn't play it properly especially with gentle touch for lighter parts in pp. Some notes were not played at all even if pressed. The MP6 had a better action for me, closer to my upright piano and I could play in pp easily. Seems also like the distance needed to play a note was shorter on the ES7 which i didn't like much.For the repetition, I didn't see any problem with the MP6.

I've tried also the Roland FP4F and liked it also quite a lot.

I didn't try the FP7F but if it's really supperior to the FP4F I'm willing to invest more money into this project.

What model would you recommend over another, and for what reason ?

Thanks a lot everyone for your help !!

All the best,

Most people feel that the FP-7F action is far better than the FP-4F... but it is a much lighter feeling action than the Kawai. So if you really like the Kawai feel, you might not be so enamored of the better Roland.

If you try the FP-7F you may well find the 4F is not quite so impressive ............

Can be Kawai MP10?
I tried FP7F and was very disappointed as the keyboard and sound.
In MP10 uses a great keyboard, the most similar to the feelings piano

Yes, at the price of the FP-7F, it would also make sense to look at the MP10, especially since you like the MP6.

Quote: "Seems also like the distance needed to play a note was shorter on the ES7 which i didn't like much..."

Is that because some of us , including myself , have hinted in that direction and perhaps you were biased by our opinion ?

I would really like to know, because if you perceived it as less key travel distance compared to the MP6 and you we're not influenced by any remarks , that would really mean something. Despite the fact that Kawai states the keybeds are physically the same. Not that it is a problem or flaw - some may even like less key travel (?) - but it would mean we are not crazy. I for myself am sure I have a similar feeling about MP6 vs ES7 as far as keybed (pp. control / travel) is concerned.

Request for next firmware: could Kawai take a careful look at the factory touch curve in correspondence to the RH II . Maybe it was directly taken from the RH models and simply doesn't work so well on the RH II un-adjusted. I know you can make your own curve, but nevertheless...as a convenience.

Other than that I join the advice of trying the MP10 . That may be really to your liking. Not that the FP7 is bad - it's a very nice DP too - more personal preference. IMHO FP4 and FP4 are worlds apart, so don't base any purchase on your FP4 experience alone. As always : try before...

I just tried out the Kawai ES7 just today and was surprised that the action, to me at least, was somewhat similar to the Roland FP7F -- a little hard bottoming out and less key travel distance but when trying out the Kawai MP10 and Kawai CA95 they didn't have the hard bottoming or the short key distance that the ES7 had.

Hi all, thanks very much for your replies !!



Well to be honest I read something about it, but totally felt the same way when playing it !! I can't really describe it better. But it's weird, because I measured the distance between the unpressed note and the pressed note, and the distance is the same on the MP6 and the ES7, however I have the feeling when playing that the distance is somehow reduced, resulting in a discomfort when playing classical pieces. Maybe it's due to the third captor added to the ES7... I don't know... Also another point I didn't like is that when playing gently for more expression, some notes were not played at all even though i pressed them lightly. to put it differently it seems hard to control the keyboard when I want to play really gently. I asked a seller, he told me there were factory settings on each. I guess it's something you can change with different settings...

Well overall, playing the same classical pieces on both of the MP6 and the ES7, sound apart, I found that the MP6 had a better touch feeling, closer to my acoustic piano.



Anyhow you're probably correct about the MP10, I should maybe consider it, however on the paper I don't see much differences between the MP6 and the MP10 in term of functionality... Is the price difference really worth it ?

Thanks again !

The MP6 and MP10 are entirely different. On paper, overall, the MP6 arguably has more functionality, depending on how you look at it. But the piano sound on the MP10 is notably better, and the action is entirely different, and many people find it far superior, though it is subjective. Definitely very different, though.

OK I'll try them both next time I go to a shop. However I've seen that on the MP10 i read a comment about it that say something about the midi function being not as good as the MP6 :

"Au niveau contrôle midi pour le MP10: 1 seule zone, dommage. Il va falloir trouver une solution hardware annexe pour remplacer les capacité du SGProX en terme de clavier maître. A savoir que le MP6 dispose, lui, de 4 zones midi."

I'll translate for you guys :

In term of Midi control for the MP10 : 1 zone only, too bad. I'll need to find a separate hardware solution to replace the possibilities of my SDProX as a master keyboard. However, the MP6 does have 4 midi zones though.


What are those midi zones exactly ? What does it mean ? I know I wanna use my DP as a controler for expander/sampler to generate good sounds of real instruments via my computer. I expect them to be better than the bank sounds in the MP6 - MP10 for the other sounds than the piano. Am i correct to think that ?


Thanks everyone !

Right, that's one of the reasons I said that "the MP6 arguably has more functionality." Also tonewheel organ, for another example. But the MP10 is, by most people's accounts, clearly the superior piano. The MP6 was designed to be more of an all-arounder.


The MP6 has much stronger MIDI controller functionality for that kind of use. The four zones means that you can control any combination of 4 internal and external sounds, split and layered across the 88 keys, each with their own volume controls, along with settings for velocity response, octave transpositions, controller assignments, etc. You can program custom presets that will instantly call up the combinations you want.

If you want a piano, the MP10 is the best to look at. If you want a MIDI controller, the MP6 is the best to look at. And since you're looking at Rolands as well, it's worth noting that, if you want MIDI controller functions, you would be better off looking at the RD-300NX and RD-700NX rather than the FP-4F and the FP-7F.

Waw that was a crystal clear answer, thanks !

Humm this will be a hard choice then. I don't think that I'll need more than one sound to control anyway. What I need would be just 1 instrument sound emulated like a cello, or a violin, or a sitar or such. I don't think that i would need a combination of layers, although I'm novice in this and have never done it before. Basically I'm just looking for ways to play any other instrument with the best sound possible using my keyboard. That would be super handy for my recording. But I want something really simple my needs are small indeed : play other instruments with my keyboard =)

Before I was either borrowing a Cello from friends or other instruments, but I'm not a very good cello player although I can reproduce small melodies by ear. So being able to use my keyboard to reproduce the sounds of a chello or other instruments would be awesome !

From the sounds I've heard on the MP6, I'd say 90% of them will be useless to me and didn't convince me anyway. I don't think that it looks like the real instruments at all. I hope I can have better result through midi with a sampler on my computer. Anyone has already done that ?

I need to feel the touch of the MP10 if its different, but I already liked the MP6 very much.

I'll have a look also at the Roland you suggest me, but from everything i've read so far and people's comments the kawai seem to be a better choice over the Roland ones of the same price.

thanks again I appreciate all of your comments, they're all really helpful to me !!

Comments also useful to me, as I am also looking at the same DPs - which I why I commented on the FP-7F vs the 4F. Not able yet to try Kawai and am just about to be away for a month+, otherwise I might have tagged onto this thread re playing/recording sampled harpsichords. "Instructing" the software to switch from 8' to 8' + 4' etc. From the above it sounds as though the MP6 might have an edge here. Will raise another thread on this when I return .............

If you're only looking to trigger one sound at a time (regardless of whether its internal to the board or external in your computer), any of these keyboards will be fine. You don't need any fancy MIDI controller functions for that kind of basic MIDI use. So yeah, I would say its worth seeking out an MP10 to see for yourself how its piano sound and action compare to the MP6, to see if you think it's worth paying more for.

Alright, I'll try it out thursday and let you know guys what I think about the MP10 compared to the MP6 in all the ways I can.

What I'm interested in are the piano sounds quality only to be honest. I'll compare them with a good audio headphone.

I guess the midi thingy is not software related, it's hardware related right ? so no improvement can be made for the MP10 right ?

You are correct I only need to trigger one sound at a time anyway

The seller told me that you can get problems when moving DP with mechanics like the RM3 because it can move the sensors or do something to the mechanic. That I can put it back on track myself, but that it can be annoying. Any experience with this ?

Also what can be damaged over time with a DP ?

Thanks

Discussed in this thread.

Thanks for the link I've read it all. It makes sense now.

I'll try them all this evening at the shop, and see if i really like the MP10 better than the MP6. There is about 600- 700€ of difference between those two. Some shops offer 5 warranty years, some others 3 years only. Do you reckon it would be better to take 5 years ?

Also I've ready that the MP6 and MP10 have a let off feeling, but that it was not possible to play "off the jack" (push slowly to escapement point, then push down fast to have the piano play softly). I guess it's because it only has 2 sensors.

Last question what would be the strong points of the Roland FP7F over one of the Kawai ? Overall from what I read the Kawai seem superior, however i'm sure the Roland have some strong points too.


Thanks everyone !

Strictly from a piano perspective (i.e. ignoring other sounds or non-piano related features), the big differences (as you might expect) are sound and action... and which is better is a matter of opinion.

In action, the Kawais are on the heavy feeling side, the FP-7F is on the light feeling side, and some players strongly prefer one or the other. The MP-10 has a notably soft landing, the FP-7F has a notably hard one, so that will also affect what you feel about the actions. In terms of specs on paper, the Roland action has a third sensor, so you can restrike a key without having to necessarily lift it high enough to silence it first. Some people make a big deal about this feature, but I think it's a smaller difference between the models than the other things I mentioned. It sounds more important on paper than I think it is in real life, and I'd choose whichever action I enjoyed playing more, regardless of whether or not it has this feature.

In sound, I happen to prefer the MP-10 over the MP-6 or the FP-7F. I'm not sure how I'd compare the Roland and the MP6, though. Regardless, whatever I preferred, I'm sure you could find people here who preferred the other, and I'm sure you can find people who prefer the Roland sound over the MP10 as well, this is another area that is subjective. The fact that Roland uses modeling for note decay means there is no looping as the sound fades, so that may be seen as an advantage, but again, I see it as more of an "on paper" advantage. Not that you can't hear the difference if you listen for it (just as you can experience the advantage of the third sensor if you play specifically in a way to reveal it), but again, I don't think it makes itself that obvious in most playing, to the point where it should be a major factor. That is, again, I'd choose the piano that simply sounds better to you when you play it, rather than choosing based on whether one can discern audible loops. Now, it is possible that the lack of audible loops may indeed contribute to making something sound better to you, that's fine... but the point is that you should still be choosing with your ears rather than from a spec sheet. But when you try them out, you should make a point of playing a variety of passages... slow and fast, quiet and loud, over different ranges of the keyboard... and this will tell you what sounds better to you, regardless of what technologies the pianos may have or lack.

Other than sound and action, I think it's also worth pointing out that the FP-7F has built in speakers, and besides their convenience, they can also convey a sense of vibration to your fingers while you play, which can make the experience feel more like that of a real piano as well. Another thing which may be a factor is that the Roland weighs about 20 lbs less then the MP10.

Thanks anotherscott,

your reply is super precise and crytal clear. It all makes sense, and will help me in few hours to try them out and find the one that suits me the best !

I think from my acoustic Weinbach upright piano that I'll tend to prefer much heavier touch as I've been used to it.

For the third sensor, I tried the ES7 that I absolutely didn't like, although it has a Third sensor added, playing gently parts was hard, some played notes were not played in the end... Which I've found really weird. I had no problem with the MP6 though.

I'll listen to the decay in the sound and let you know guys what i think of both of the sounds. In real I know that I prefer europe like sound in acoustic piano, I think most asiatic pianos have a too bright and metalic sound that doesn't suit classical style much. So I'll see. But my first concern is the action of the piano, then the piano sounds. The other sounds, i don't mind at all.

You're right about the speaker, although I'll use the headphone only the vibration generated by the speakers would make it more realistic like on my acoustic piano... I didnt think of this at first. I guess that was a really good thing to ask on this forum, because I wouldn't have thought of testing this or thinking of that myself.

I'll write my comments for you guys tomorrow I think.

Again, I really appreciate your help, so thanks for your time !! This forum is great !

Quote: For the third sensor, I tried the ES7 that I absolutely didn't like, although it has a Third sensor added, playing gently parts was hard, some played notes were not played in the end... Which I've found really weird. I had no problem with the MP6 though.

Interesting, similar feeling here. But I'll get whacked for posting this...duck !

(Although I do like the RH II in general - it's only that there is a difference in control when playing soft / delicate passages, like you seem to experience. Adjusting the touch curve will help to a certain extend by the way - perhaps the touch curve was set in the wrong way !)