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Topic Options
#1983858 - 11/07/12 05:46 PM Is this a Steinway?
acortot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 465
Loc: Italy
_________________________
rhythm must be inborn - Alfred Cortot

An Article on the unusual makeup of original Pleyel hammers, during Chopin's lifetime:

http://acortot.blogspot.it/2012/07/pleyel-hammers-in-chopin-era-i-martelli.html

Max DiMario

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#1983861 - 11/07/12 06:08 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
No, that is not a Steinway.
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#1983863 - 11/07/12 06:11 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1528
Loc: Danville, California
Probably a Bechstein

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#1983870 - 11/07/12 06:31 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6271
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Definitely early Pearl River cool
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1983878 - 11/07/12 06:47 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Lluís Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 313
Loc: Barcelona,Spain, European Unio...
The lyre looks really like a Bechstein!
_________________________
1942 Challen Baby Grand Piano

1855 Pleyel Pianino (Restoring -> www.pleyelrestoration.blogspot.com )

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#1983902 - 11/07/12 08:02 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 553
It's his Blüthner
_________________________
"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#1983909 - 11/07/12 09:00 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9172
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Bluthner... an original one!
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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#1983913 - 11/07/12 09:12 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1940
Loc: Philadelphia area
Steinway doesn't put the music desk on top of the lid. Not without some kind of protection. At least a piece of cloth or something. And Steinway high backed bar stool chairs are straight legged.

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#1983948 - 11/07/12 11:36 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
master88er Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 848
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Actually, Bechstein and Bluthner did not cut into the case like The picture. I'm betting Ibach or Feurich.


Edited by master88er (11/07/12 11:36 PM)
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#1983966 - 11/08/12 12:54 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Yep. Blüthner. The oval shaped cheekblock screw head just visible under the keyboard is unique to Blüthner and the single lyre support rod at the slightly steeper angle.

Is the light fixture on the wall an early arc lamp?


Edited by rxd (11/08/12 01:04 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1983968 - 11/08/12 01:08 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: rxd]
Karl Watson Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 318
Rich got it right in one.

BLUTHNER

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#1983969 - 11/08/12 01:37 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: Rich Galassini]
Alex Hernandez Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1967
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Bluthner... an original one!


No the original one ( serial number #1 ) was sold in Leipzig, Germany to a professor of acoustics at Leipzig University in 1853. He also considered Bösendorfer at the time.

Is that what you meant Rich? wink


Edited by Alex Hernandez (11/08/12 04:25 AM)
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#1983972 - 11/08/12 02:11 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14135
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Yes, it's Henry Steinways third youngest brother Joseph!

Norbert laugh
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#1984004 - 11/08/12 04:33 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
This photograph adorns the walls of many Blüthner dealers and I see it is the first photograph in the section on Blüthner artists in Wikipedia.

In the early 1970's, I used to tune the Blüthner (not this one) in the apartment where Rachmaninov occasionally stayed when he was in London. The wall next the piano had framed line drawings of the great man done by his host who left a legacy that the piano be tuned 4 times a year. The then owner used to beg me to find students to come and practice on it because, sadly, it was no longer being played.

By the way, Rich said it was 'an' original one, not 'the' original one, although, in 1905, I doubt the piano in the picture was anywhere near 50 years old. Interesting bit of history, though.
I think I'm right that, by 1905, the concert instruments were sporting a roller action. The smaller grands still had the patent action until around 1923.


Edited by rxd (11/08/12 04:58 AM)
_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#1984041 - 11/08/12 08:02 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: Alex Hernandez]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9172
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Alex Hernandez
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Bluthner... an original one!


No the original one ( serial number #1 ) was sold in Leipzig, Germany to a professor of acoustics at Leipzig University in 1853. He also considered Bösendorfer at the time.

Is that what you meant Rich? wink


ALEX!!! Where have you been??

It is great to see you here. I am very happy you posted.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1984123 - 11/08/12 11:19 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: Alex Hernandez]
Dale Fox Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
Originally Posted By: Alex Hernandez
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Bluthner... an original one!


No the original one ( serial number #1 ) was sold in Leipzig, Germany to a professor of acoustics at Leipzig University in 1853. He also considered Bösendorfer at the time.

Is that what you meant Rich? wink


Alex, nice to 'hear' your voice. I saw a silver BMW SUV going down Douglas Blvd yesterday. It had a Bluthner Pianos license plate frame, too, so at first, I thought maybe you were in town. But it wasn't you.....
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

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#1984220 - 11/08/12 03:04 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Alex Hernandez Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1967
Rich, thanks, I hope all is well with you.

Dale, that wasn't me but I would love to swing by the shop sometime and see what's up with you and Brett.
_________________________


Blüthner USA, LLC

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#1984575 - 11/09/12 10:12 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
pianistical Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
See my signature.
_________________________
“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
1955 Steingraeber upright.

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#1984583 - 11/09/12 10:47 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
acortot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 465
Loc: Italy
I thought that Rachmaninoff used Steinway pianos, but I guess I was misinformed by the period ads etc.

A man who has a music store here in Italy told me that once upon a time people did not consider Steinway the best and he cited Bluthner as being one of the more desired pianos..

this fits in with what I've heard and seen in France, which in the 1800's was the capital of piano music.

I think that although Steinway pianos are certainly excellent, they have been very heavily marketed in the late 1800's until the wars, and maybe after as well

the reason I say that is that if I go and look at some of my favourite pianists of the day, they all used different kinds of pianos but they all ADVERTISED Steinway, which I believe has to do more with money than with a sudden change of tastes.. as we know Steinway provided guaranteed money for tours of the USA which at the time was a very lucrative market.

for example:

Rachmaninoff used Bluthner
Cortot used Pleyel
Paderewski used an Erard everywhere but the USA
Liszt in the late 1800's used Bechstein, Chickering etc. in a time when Steinways were available.
Josef Hoffman used Weber (as far as I know) and later on he had a custom-made piano with an action of his design

I've always thought the Steinway-mania was a bit out of control.. perhaps more a function of trying to keep market prices high etc.

not sure there are many good alternatives TODAY, of course..
_________________________
rhythm must be inborn - Alfred Cortot

An Article on the unusual makeup of original Pleyel hammers, during Chopin's lifetime:

http://acortot.blogspot.it/2012/07/pleyel-hammers-in-chopin-era-i-martelli.html

Max DiMario

Top
#1984732 - 11/09/12 05:59 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 553
Originally Posted By: acortot
I thought that Rachmaninoff used Steinway pianos, but I guess I was misinformed by the period ads etc.


I remember reading somewhere that he owned two Steinway Ds and a Bluthner.
_________________________
"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#1984740 - 11/09/12 06:10 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6271
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Whatever it is, I bet it sounded absolutely wonderful when Rachmaninoff played it !!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1984755 - 11/09/12 07:15 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: DanS]
acortot Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 465
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: DanS
Originally Posted By: acortot
I thought that Rachmaninoff used Steinway pianos, but I guess I was misinformed by the period ads etc.


I remember reading somewhere that he owned two Steinway Ds and a Bluthner.



could be,

influential pianists often got pianos from manufacturers for free etc. so you have to know what they actually used
_________________________
rhythm must be inborn - Alfred Cortot

An Article on the unusual makeup of original Pleyel hammers, during Chopin's lifetime:

http://acortot.blogspot.it/2012/07/pleyel-hammers-in-chopin-era-i-martelli.html

Max DiMario

Top
#1984758 - 11/09/12 07:25 PM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1528
Loc: Danville, California
Rachmaninov's home in Switzerand - Villa Senar

Where he had a Hamburg Steinway


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#1985237 - 11/11/12 04:30 AM Re: Is this a Steinway? [Re: acortot]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1145
That particular picture is a Bluthner. Unquestionably.

Bluthner used roller actions in their concert grands in the early 20th century, but mostly patent actions in the smaller grands as has already been stated.

Julius Bluthner preferred the patent action to the roller action, and I can see why, but I guess times have changed.

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