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#1818023 - 01/03/12 07:15 PM Franz Liszt appreciation thread.
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Even after the great mans bicentenary year, he is still hit by the same prejudices and criticisms that have pervaded him both his whole life, and since his death.

Because of this, I have decided to make a thread dedicated to him. (Obviously this has been done with the e-cital, but I want to make a broader sort of thread). This is a thread for discussing Liszt, posting his music, and basically celebrating him. The thread is for everyone, but aimed at people who are particularly enthusiastic about the man and his music.

I'll start the thread by posting some rare-ish works of his that I have been listening to a fair bit lately...




















Edited by pianojosh23 (01/03/12 08:25 PM)

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#1818064 - 01/03/12 09:21 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
AldenH Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas
Glad to see some of his "off the beaten [stabbed, shoved, forced, attacked] track" works celebrated! What an incredible figure he was, too...

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#1818074 - 01/03/12 09:30 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Psychic Ravel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/21/08
Posts: 101
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.

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#1818083 - 01/03/12 09:38 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Psychic Ravel]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2311
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.

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#1818101 - 01/03/12 10:19 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: jeffreyjones]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3459
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.


Actually, isn't his much earlier "Au bord d'une source" just as impressionistic? but yes, I think Liszt was first in this regard.

Sophia

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#1818158 - 01/04/12 12:59 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: sophial]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: sophial
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.


Actually, isn't his much earlier "Au bord d'une source" just as impressionistic? but yes, I think Liszt was first in this regard.

Sophia


Not as much, but still, yes. I've never heard this particular recording before. It is much slower than the recording I have on CD, but it is very charming, nonetheless.

_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1818161 - 01/04/12 01:04 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 544
Loc: New York
I consider this one of his masterworks:



What a journey!


Edited by didyougethathing (01/04/12 01:05 AM)

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#1818166 - 01/04/12 01:16 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Dachshund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 78
Loc: California
I always thought this piece was beautiful.



It's bummer people don't play it very often compared to the other consolations.

-Will



Edited by Dachshund (01/04/12 01:19 AM)
Edit Reason: fixed the link

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#1818167 - 01/04/12 01:16 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: didyougethathing]
PaulaPiano34 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1217
Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
I consider this one of his masterworks:



What a journey!


Ahhh....F# Major, Liszt's Key for the Divine...

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#1818173 - 01/04/12 01:38 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Dachshund]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 544
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dachshund
I always thought this piece was beautiful.



It's bummer people don't play it very often compared to the other consolations.

-Will



I've also loved this piece for quite some time.

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#1818175 - 01/04/12 01:44 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
didyougethathing Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 544
Loc: New York
I also love Totentanz (the version with orchestra)! Sure, there's some flash, but there are great moments in there.





The part from 4:48-4:58 in the 2nd part just takes my breath away. So "movie score" for its time!


Edited by didyougethathing (01/04/12 01:45 AM)

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#1818205 - 01/04/12 04:33 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: sophial]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2311
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: sophial
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.


Actually, isn't his much earlier "Au bord d'une source" just as impressionistic? but yes, I think Liszt was first in this regard.

Sophia


Well, yes and no. I always thought of Au bord as more of a Romantic nature study, or otherwise Schumann's Waldscenen would handily predate it. There's no doubt that somewhere in there the seed was planted, but Jeux d'eaux I think is more along the lines of the subject matter that Debussy and Ravel used. He becomes less of a cantor and more of a painter.

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#1818227 - 01/04/12 06:42 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: jeffreyjones]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


I never got it either. He did write a lot of stuff merely to show off his unsurpassed technical equipment (like the opera fantasies), but even most of them are void of empty virtuosity, which he would be excused for anyway seeing as that's more or less what he wrote them for. Some of these works are really terrific too, like the inspired Norma fantasy. People always say there is a good deal of trash in his oeuvre, but there is actually very little void of interest, even when he was writing for show off purposes (which is not really a bad thing in the end, seeing as he wrote so much music for musical purposes). Like all composers, he wrote masterpieces, good pieces, and average-'bad' pieces. I do think that a lot of Liszt can be an acquired taste though, as it is often in his best stuff a unique style of writing, and very virtuosic which can put people, especially those with a prejudiced mind, off despite how good the music is.



Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
I consider this one of his masterworks:



What a journey!


Yes! I agree, absolutely a masterwork. Always one of my very favourites! Thankyou!

Originally Posted By: Dachshund
I always thought this piece was beautiful.



It's bummer people don't play it very often compared to the other consolations.

-Will



Agreed. All of the consolations are very beautiful pieces, but 3 (and to a lesser extent, 2) seems to be the only one that's played. It's a shame, because they are all little gems.

Originally Posted By: didyougethathing
I also love Totentanz (the version with orchestra)! Sure, there's some flash, but there are great moments in there.





The part from 4:48-4:58 in the 2nd part just takes my breath away. So "movie score" for its time!


Yes I love the Totentanz too! Terrific piece. My favourite recording is from Zimerman, who to me gets it pretty much perfect. (In fact Zimerman in both Liszt's concerti and the Totentanz is pretty much perfect IMO, transforming these oft-critisized works into the masterpieces they deserve to be).

Here he is in the Totentanz:






Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: sophial
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.


Actually, isn't his much earlier "Au bord d'une source" just as impressionistic? but yes, I think Liszt was first in this regard.

Sophia


Well, yes and no. I always thought of Au bord as more of a Romantic nature study, or otherwise Schumann's Waldscenen would handily predate it. There's no doubt that somewhere in there the seed was planted, but Jeux d'eaux I think is more along the lines of the subject matter that Debussy and Ravel used. He becomes less of a cantor and more of a painter.


I agree with you there. I also think however that the first Légende is very impressionistic, and it was written a fair bit before the Jeux d'éaux. Then again while I have an idea, i'm not 100% sure of what impressionistic fully entails - what the 'requirements' are, especially when dealing with a piece firmly in the time of the romantic era. Maybe this is more a romantic nature study too? It always struck me as very impressionistic, however.



Edited by pianojosh23 (01/04/12 06:55 AM)

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#1818441 - 01/04/12 02:32 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
DBC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 62
Loc: Romania
A masterpiece played by one of my favourite pianists Dinu Lipatti.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRt8txTphY8


Edited by DBC (01/04/12 02:33 PM)

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#1818460 - 01/04/12 03:08 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 408
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Like so many of his works these are absolutely transcendental.

The beauty of Beethoven can be so overwhelming that my bones ache and I forget to breath. Chopin seems to willfully destroy my emotions leaving behind a blubbering mess. But only Liszt's compositions are banned from my work hours as nothing else becomes possible when captured in his enchantment.

Liszt alone steals my soul and returns it transformed for the better.
_________________________

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#1818541 - 01/04/12 05:19 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
I've been listening to the Faust Symphony a lot lately...Love love love this work! One of my favourite symphonies by anyone...It's better in context with all the transformations and all that, but this movement takes my breath away every time...It has to be one of the greatest movements in any symphony IMO.

Conducted by Bernstein who called the symphony 'Liszt's only authentic masterpiece.' Obviously a load of rubbish when there is the Sonata, the Christus Oratorio, Benediction, and more, but still that's high praise of this work by a great conductor.





Edited by pianojosh23 (01/04/12 05:44 PM)

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#1818551 - 01/04/12 05:30 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2630
Loc: Netherlands
I'm an admirer of Liszt, the man and the music, I dare to say that I know how important he has been, historically, musically, pianistically, but, BUT: he tends to be a vehicle for some pianists to show off their own musical shallowness in such a way that it has an effect, unfortunately, on his reputation. Liszt at his best deserves pianists at their best, as do Chopin, Mendelssohn, Schumann and all the others.
_________________________
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Couperin pices, Ravel tombeau de C

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#1818709 - 01/04/12 08:39 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Dachshund]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Dachshund

It's bummer people don't play it very often compared to the other consolations.


The other consolations are often overlooked and sometimes it takes just a certain touch. This was posted in the members recording subforum and I was quite taken by it.

Consolation #1

_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1818713 - 01/04/12 08:40 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I like the first Liebestraum from the set of three Liebestraums more than the second and third.

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#1818721 - 01/04/12 08:47 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
emmov Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 72
I've always had a soft spot for Sonetto 104 del Petrarca...

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#1818771 - 01/04/12 10:27 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: emmov]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I like the first Liebestraum from the set of three Liebestraums more than the second and third.


I agree with you! In fact I like the first AND second better than the third, and the first is my favourite. However I do think this is simply because i've heard the third a minimum of a million times rather than the other two being better - I do think the third is the more attractive work despite how numb i've become to it. But all three are beautiful.

Originally Posted By: emmov
I've always had a soft spot for Sonetto 104 del Petrarca...


Me too...I think this extended miniature contains the essence of Romanticism. It is one of my favourite piano works by anyone.


Edited by pianojosh23 (01/04/12 10:30 PM)

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#1818781 - 01/04/12 10:45 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: jeffreyjones]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: sophial
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: Psychic Ravel
I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.


Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.



Actually, isn't his much earlier "Au bord d'une source" just as impressionistic? but yes, I think Liszt was first in this regard.

Sophia


Well, yes and no. I always thought of Au bord as more of a Romantic nature study, or otherwise Schumann's Waldscenen would handily predate it. There's no doubt that somewhere in there the seed was planted, but Jeux d'eaux I think is more along the lines of the subject matter that Debussy and Ravel used. He becomes less of a cantor and more of a painter.


I just realised, while I agree with you that Au bord d'une source is more a nature study, I disagree with Waldszenen predating it. Waldszenen was written in 1848 I believe, while Au bord d'une source was written in it's first form (in the Album D'un Voyageur suite) in around 1836, and then revised in the 50's into the version we know and love today.



Edited by pianojosh23 (01/04/12 10:47 PM)

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#1818790 - 01/04/12 10:50 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.

*runs away so he doesn't get killed*
_________________________
Working on:
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Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
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#1818795 - 01/04/12 10:54 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Kuanpiano]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.

*runs away so he doesn't get killed*


While I don't agree with you, i've said similar things many times. I personally believe that Liszt's 2nd is every bit as good as Chopin's masterful 4th Ballade (which I believe to be Chopin's greatest work, and my favourite work by him), and I like Liszt's better. I'm not, however, going to say that it is better laugh

So as OP, i'm more or less on your side. I will protect you from being killed laugh

It took me forever to find a good recording of this work - all the recordings on youtube just didn't do it for me...until I found this one by Stephen Hough, who pulls the work off pretty much perfectly IMO.



Edited by pianojosh23 (01/04/12 11:11 PM)

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#1818881 - 01/05/12 03:17 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2311
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.

*runs away so he doesn't get killed*


While I don't agree with you, i've said similar things many times. I personally believe that Liszt's 2nd is every bit as good as Chopin's masterful 4th Ballade (which I believe to be Chopin's greatest work, and my favourite work by him), and I like Liszt's better. I'm not, however, going to say that it is better laugh

So as OP, i'm more or less on your side. I will protect you from being killed laugh

It took me forever to find a good recording of this work - all the recordings on youtube just didn't do it for me...until I found this one by Stephen Hough, who pulls the work off pretty much perfectly IMO.


A lot of folks seemed to like my interpretation of it, I recorded the Second Ballade for the Liszt e-cital. I don't think it is fair to compare it to the Chopin ballades. They're in different, equally distant and fantastic solar systems. The Liszt just gives the impression of being endlessly immense, generous and vivid, and the Chopin is so inward and intimate. There's no way to meaningfully compare them.

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#1818885 - 01/05/12 04:09 AM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Kuanpiano]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.


Pffffffffft!

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano

*runs away so he doesn't get killed*


Good idea that.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1819343 - 01/05/12 09:20 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: jeffreyjones]
pianojosh23 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 604
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.

*runs away so he doesn't get killed*


While I don't agree with you, i've said similar things many times. I personally believe that Liszt's 2nd is every bit as good as Chopin's masterful 4th Ballade (which I believe to be Chopin's greatest work, and my favourite work by him), and I like Liszt's better. I'm not, however, going to say that it is better laugh

So as OP, i'm more or less on your side. I will protect you from being killed laugh

It took me forever to find a good recording of this work - all the recordings on youtube just didn't do it for me...until I found this one by Stephen Hough, who pulls the work off pretty much perfectly IMO.


A lot of folks seemed to like my interpretation of it, I recorded the Second Ballade for the Liszt e-cital. I don't think it is fair to compare it to the Chopin ballades. They're in different, equally distant and fantastic solar systems. The Liszt just gives the impression of being endlessly immense, generous and vivid, and the Chopin is so inward and intimate. There's no way to meaningfully compare them.


Well yes. I do agree with you.

On another note, i've been listening to his 1st Ballade lately as well. It is not in the same world of quality and is a much more light-hearted work, but I still love this piece. Anyone else for his first Ballade? Perhaps not first-rate Liszt, but some parts are absolutely magical.


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#1819345 - 01/05/12 09:25 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: pianojosh23]
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA

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#1819372 - 01/05/12 10:02 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Kuanpiano]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.


thumb Well, three of them, anyway.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1819375 - 01/05/12 10:08 PM Re: Franz Liszt appreciation thread. [Re: Damon]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3754
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 laugh.


thumb Well, three of them, anyway.


And I think y'all are nuts. smile

Or, at least, allowing overexposure to tarnish the Chopin. It's not his fault, or their fault, that they're overplayed.

Liszt was a very fine composer, and a musical genius. But Chopin occupies a different universe.

That's my take, anyway. (These forums wouldn't be very interesting if we all agreed on everything!)

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
1950s Zimmermann
by MaxR
Today at 02:17 PM
Piano with Willie
by Nikalette
Today at 12:58 PM
How to practice a fast piece for amateur competitions
by RonaldSteinway
Today at 11:56 AM
Cromatic lead in Elton John song
by Visalia
Today at 11:56 AM
Chopin experts: this is driving me nuts
by riley80
Today at 09:40 AM
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