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#1982107 - 11/03/12 09:33 AM ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3?
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Hi, some advice please. Had some issues with my recent purchase of a kawai ca95 and been given the option of changing it for something else by the store. Went to try other dp's but my opinion is the ca95 is as good as any.... then i saw a 1972 u3 with 2 year guarantee... looks almost new and reconditioned felts ect.... sounds good and the quiet play locking system works well so although my original purchase was because of not effecting other people in the house... i think it'll be quiet enough to now consider an acoustic. Its a bit more money but my main consideration is wether just to get an acoustic and be done with it.... my tutor has a yam grand, gradings are on yam grand and a dp can never really be enough maybe....

Would a 1972 nice condition u3 with 2 year warrenty be preferable?

I do like the ca95
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#1982119 - 11/03/12 10:15 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
StefaanBelgium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 53
Loc: Belgium
You didn't tell us what the conclusion was with the noise you heard when playing the CA95... was there a malfunction or was it just the sound you couldn't get around ?
_________________________
Kawai CA65

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#1982131 - 11/03/12 10:38 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Still not got to the bottom of it.... possibly data and power cables being in close proximity i was advised.... the headphones crackle and there was a chip in a legso itll go back.... just unsure what to do now as my budget is 3grand... the the u3 in question is 3450 ... is there a new piano for up to that money that is worth having i wonder or is it worth me sticking with the ca95..
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#1982132 - 11/03/12 10:40 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
3450 english pounds for the 1972 u3 btw...
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#1982260 - 11/03/12 03:31 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2434
Loc: UK
Take these also into consideration:

Will you miss all the other features of the Digital? Different pianos, voices, tuning and temperaments, connectivity to software pianos, organs, recording to device, ability to turn the volume down, and so on.

Do you prefer a digital or real piano key action? Big difference IMHO.

Do you have a place in your UK home where the U3 will be stable?

Can you afford regular tunings? Will it bug you when it goes out of tune (when tuner walks out the door!)?

Is the music you play most suited more to a digital or real piano?

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#1982285 - 11/03/12 04:33 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Was just using my ca95 with my three year old daughter... the concert magic function means about 200 pieces can be played by pressing any key in rhythm and the volume of each section can be fluctuated with hardness of key press.... this function is much enjoyment for both of us.... she's learning and practicing rhythm and controlling the volume as the piece progresses.... this i feel is a great way to bring anyone into enjoying the interaction with the ca95 and will be a great feature for parties and functions at the farm. As we were using this i was considering my choice...


After playing all the dp's at the store today i am convinced the ca#5 range has the nicest touch and action of any... personnel preference of course... there was a ca111 there, found it horrible and plasticky in comparison. Rolands and yamaha's comparative models felt nice, different but ultimately not as nice to me. In comparrison the acoustics were a strange bunch... the b class yammys seemed quite resistive, then the new u3, all the yammy grands then the used u3 had the easiest action along with a u1 used... the action really didnt feel any different and even slightly lighter than the ca95.... but the key press is only part of the attraction of an acoustic....

My passion has been for years all sorts of classical music... which a good acoustic would obviously be a benefit too.... but my budget can only afford a cheap(3k£) piano so although i have no concern for tuning costs and a stable enviroment... and even the volume restrictions... my consideration is that getting a basic acoustic now whilst i'm going through my grades (back to diligent practice after ten years of dabbling) may not be sensible for a few reasons..... if i get through the grades to become a reasonable standard then investing in a new u3 for 7k would be justifyable... buying a 40 year old piano now would essentially give me an improvement in touch and realism but not that much considering my ca95 is a good dp. The u3 would be very pretty sat there but at the cost of volume controls/recording and midi/ concert magic function for family plus the plethora of adjustment in the ca95's sound....

Again... authentic acoustic realism in sound that unfortunately means constantly going out of tune versus perfect tuning all the time....

If youve read this far i think its fair to say my decision is pretty formed....

I was very emotionally involved after playing the u3 with all the other dp's and acoustics earlier... and will go back tomorrow for another go...

At the moment my game plan:

Appreciate the benefits and drawbacks of current dp. Acknowledge a good acoustic will be required possibly in the future as i progress through grades and become more profficient generally. Accept a good acoustic costs more than my current budget so maoe the most of what i have.... if in a few years i feel i want to progress then spend a sensible amount on a sensible standard accoustic. 7k for a new u3 or half that for a 40 year old model. Think i'm going to wait....


Any recommendations for a 3k acoustic in the dawsons music uk range most welcome... there is a few but i dont expect any are worth having truthfully...
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#1982336 - 11/03/12 07:08 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
If the used U3 is a good one there is no reason to suppose a new one will be hugely better. But that is a big "if". Do you feel you know enough to make that judgement? If not then perhaps employ a tech to look it over.

As far as the CA-95 is concerned I don't think you'd miss it. I've just changed my AvantGrand N3 (which makes the CA-95 look like a toy) for a Kawai K3 and I'm in heaven frankly. There is just so much more with an acoustic. More of everything.
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#1982366 - 11/03/12 08:04 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
StefaanBelgium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 53
Loc: Belgium
I have the impression you jumped into the whole thing and you're still unsure if you've made the right decision with the CA95.
For me personally, if it wasn't for my neighbours, I would have gone for an accoustic instead of the CA 65 I have. Mind you, I'm very happy with it and I can practice as much as I want with my DP, but it's still not the real thing... I don't give much for all the extra's ( connections, different sounds etc ) For me it's strictly price and being able to use headphones. My personal plan is that I will go for a silent K3 in a couple of years if everything worked out all right.
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Kawai CA65

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#1982502 - 11/04/12 07:17 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
After going back to the store today i still dont really know... the 40 year old u3 sounds lovely all through the range... its not a particularly great price but i'm now stuck with dealing with dawsons so i dont really have much of an option... may drive to basingstoke to try there other store...
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#1982506 - 11/04/12 07:33 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
No alternatives there....


So my options are pretty much

1/ keep the ca95
2/ 40 year old u3 which does sound lovely.
3/ 35 year old u1 which doesnt sound as nice as the u1.
4/ a new yammy b3 which did sound nice and price is 3 grand.... although it doesnt get great reviews and the action seemed a little heavy...



The u3 price tag is an extra 900 pounds over the ca95, the u1 is extra 400. B3 is 3 thousand so same as used u1... but obviously new...


Or wait till im progressed and save for a better acoustic in a few years... hmmm
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#1982509 - 11/04/12 07:51 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I've played an old U3 quite recently and was completely captivated by it. When you say it sounds lovely all through the range I take it you are referring to the low notes to the high...does it have a good dynamic and timbral range? Lovely soft and woody when played quietly and robust and powerful (but with definition and clarity) when played loudly? If so and you really like the basic tonal character of it and you enjoy the touch and feel you can exercise good control over the dynamics then what's not to like? Go for it.

There are cheaper used U3s out there. Mark Goodwin seems to charge about £3500 but for slightly more recent examples and I think he is a tad more expensive than most. But if the piano is good what's a couple of hundred quid over several years of ownership? The main thing is to decide if it's the right piano.

I very nearly went for a used U3 but bought a new Kawai K3 instead (at a higher price). I think the better used U1s and U3s can be extraordinarily good.
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Yamaha CP1

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#1982538 - 11/04/12 09:17 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
You can consider this: buy an acoustic, plus by a cheaper digital but with a tolerable action to use it with some SW Pianos. (I personally use Galaxy Vintage D, but their Vienna Grand and Giant are pretty good either, then there are others, like Ivory, for some 200-300 USD etc.)

With headphones you get similar or better sound quality for around 1000 USD as with the highest range DPs, even if you have to by a sound card for around 100 USD. (e.G. EMU0402 USB).

Maybe even 3 sensor keyboard is not as vital with SW instruments as with their native DPs as they cannot completely pull all the benefits out of it through old MIDI, but I am not that sure, have no experience personally.

Optionaly: a pair of decent speaker Boxes cost an extra 500-1000 USD, but You have the benefit to use it for all music from your computer as well.

Resale value is probably better for such a configuration, as for a higher-End DP.

I personally have a very nice acoustic with a beautyful sound which I am loving, but I tend to use it only on very rare occasions because all of the convenience of digital (issues of loudness, flexibility...).
_________________________
Acoustic: own clavichord!, Burger&Jacoby,Biel (nice vintage vertical)
Digital: CA65; Pianoteq; Sampled:Galaxy VintageD+Vienna(Bösendorfer)
Sampletekk Black,PMI, etc...
Harpsi: Beurmann Dutch+Sampletekk, Clavichord:PMI+Wavelore+organs

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#1982664 - 11/04/12 03:13 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Thanks for your imput temperament... unfortunately my situation is the piano is situated at my girlfriends grans cottage over the road... all sorts of reasons this was the best option for now.. just moved back to the valley and dont have my own music room anymore (boooo!) As renting my house out currently... soooo my options are limted my friend!

Going to go down a path of fluttering my eyelashes at the kawai rep so as to get a deal on a new k3... if that doesnt work (how could it possibly fail!) Then my plan will be to stick with what i have, do what i can with a very nice dp anyways and then invest later...


The k3 has the practice pedal, kawai rep seems like a reasonable chap and if i didnt give it a go at bending the price i would be a fool....

Messages sent... will be waiting for a reply but i feel pretty certain i would be making a mistake with getting the u3.... or any other of the options.

Time will tell!
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#1982675 - 11/04/12 03:36 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3668
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: UK Paul UK

Messages sent... will be waiting for a reply but i feel pretty certain i would be making a mistake with getting the u3.... or any other of the options.


Not necessarily. I bought a U3 that's even older than the one you are discussing and it's been a really great purchase for me. The action is great - it needs a few key bushings here and there to feel really precise, but not bad enough to really bother me. I've done a bit of reshaping on the hammers, sounds beautiful, hold tune very well.

I got it on eBay for about a 3rd of the price of a CA95 (a DP that I was considering). I did play it and inspect it before I bid for it. For me the 45 year old U3 was infinitely more satisfying than the DP.

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#1982684 - 11/04/12 03:58 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Good fortune for you then! Im in a situation where i am restricted to just the one u3 (used) as my purchase will restrict me to dawsons products.... so i cannot pick and choose. If i can find a reputable person to take a look at the u3 then its possible its a good buy... however my being cautious is right atm. I will wait to see what response i get... and also see about getting an inspection of the u3. Im in no position to be able to judge myself. I feel itll be a safer bet with a k3 and i know there are some great buys to be had... congratulations on finding one!
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#1982693 - 11/04/12 04:27 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3668
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: UK Paul UK
Good fortune for you then! Im in a situation where i am restricted to just the one u3 (used) as my purchase will restrict me to dawsons products.... so i cannot pick and choose. If i can find a reputable person to take a look at the u3 then its possible its a good buy... however my being cautious is right atm. I will wait to see what response i get... and also see about getting an inspection of the u3. Im in no position to be able to judge myself. I feel itll be a safer bet with a k3 and i know there are some great buys to be had... congratulations on finding one!


Oh, sorry, I missed the bit about you being restricted to a single dealer. That does indeed reduce the options enormously - both in range and price. I guess I'd probably lean towards the K3 as well if I were in your situation. For me, DPs are just not satisfying enough for me to want to pay that much for one and play it for hours on end. I'm very interested in DP technology and have been following its development very closely, but for me acoustic pianos are still streets ahead. I'd only get a DP if I had very troublesome neighbours living in close proximity.

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#1982719 - 11/04/12 05:22 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Only neighbours are two horses and about a hundred pheasants currently so no issues there.. and with the locking practice pedal the k3 would be everything its just the massive hike over the ca95 that i'm concerned with... unfortunately i feel spending any less gets a sub par acoustic or a top of the range dp.

All the added extras on a dp are nice but ultimately with me taking up lessons after ten years of dabbling... i have enough history to know i would be happy without the extras.... deeper down the rabbit hole i may go..

Emailed a restoration company near the store so hopefully can get.an inspection of the u3... if the k3 is out of my reach financially then in the future it'll be a natural progression to an acoustic for me...
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#1982722 - 11/04/12 05:27 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Note my three acoustics so far havent been quality instruments..
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#1983021 - 11/05/12 12:45 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
After speaking to a piano tech in reading and getting some info from the store...

The u3 is a jap import, been in the country 2 to 3 years so the tech has advised to save my money and not pay him for inspecting it... as a u3 will be coming to a major overhall at 40 years old and cost wise i'd be better off looking at others... climate changes after 38 years in japan usually means theres tuning issues ect...

He advised me for free and was happy to inspect the piano for 44£ but considering the age and history its likely money wasted....

The store uses a dutch company who import lots of u3 and u1 pianos and always have a jap import u3 for sale... only one at a time though in store so although its nice... its probably not a good move. Still waiting for a response on the k3 from kawai but hopefully something will work out!
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#1983101 - 11/05/12 03:57 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
Justplay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 238
UK Paul,

Can you try another Kawai CA 95. Mine is not anything like you describe. That noise can't be indicative of the instrument because other Kawai CA 95 owners don't have that noise. Can you send out for a new one in exchange. I think, you'll be really disappointed with an inexpensive upright. I think it's better that you have a fine digital with a fine action than a cheap acoustic and $3k will get you a cheap one for sure.

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#1983121 - 11/05/12 04:46 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
I agree with what your saying about mine not being indicative of all ca95 's and i am stuck in the quandry of high end dp or low end acoustic.... i wont be investing in a poor acoustic as there are lots of benefits of a digital... however if things go my way i may have a situation with a favourable price on a decent acoustic... time will tell my friend... i couldnt really afford the ca95 at the time... now im financially able to be a bit flexible... but i cant see anything in the realms of 3 to 3.5k worth having so i will be hoping for some luck with my bargaining...

I just have a niggling that some crazy twisted turn of events may end up with me getting a decent acoustic.... but whatever happens i will enjoy what i play!
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#1984058 - 11/08/12 08:42 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Update on my adventures :-)


Looks like i may be heading towards a new kawai k3! Nearly got the price in my acceptable bracket and should know tomorrow... then its a trip to the distribution office to play a range of kawai k3's and to pick the exact item i want to be delivered.... its a darn sight more than the ca95 but will be a great deal and i can hand pick my preferred baby...

Soon to join the acoustic club i hope! :-) just got to hope my final price is accepted... cant fault the kawai and dawsons customer service with me... even without the possible deal i'm getti getting both joe and david have been extremely helpful.

I wont be discussing my final sale price as my situation is unique in that i've had problems with previous purchases... but it certainly put a smile on my face... (that includes people wanting the price through pm)

Hopefully my next update will be photos of my chosen piano from the warehouse... or an angry rant if the deal falls through..:-)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulGPiano

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#1984066 - 11/08/12 08:56 AM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
Justplay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 238
Very nice Paul. Show pics and keep us posted.

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#1984187 - 11/08/12 02:02 PM Re: ca95 to 1972 yamaha u3? [Re: UK Paul UK]
UK Paul UK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Berkshire, England
Cheers mate, will do! :-)
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