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#981344 - 07/19/08 12:21 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Chardonnay Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 505
Loc: Boston, MA.
Steven: Over in the other thread you had started, I just added what little I know about the Opus 4 sonata: in a nutshell, one biographer indicated that it was the publisher's (Haslinger of Vienna) decision, and not necessarily Chopin's, to reject it from publication when it was first submitted along with the Opus 2 Variations. Perhaps Chopin himself ultimately agreed with the decision, although that is speculation on my part.

Kathleen: in agreement with Steven and Elene, I too love the solitude of piano practice- I sure don't want anyone to hear my dreadful early attempts at learning a piece, or the constant repetition of a tricky passage! I am extremely glad that in our current house, the piano is in a room on the opposite side of the house from the TV room. However, it's easy to feel this way in the comfort of your own home, when your piano is in a big open room with a nice view of the outside. I can only imagine how difficult (and lonely) it would be to practice for hours in a small, isolated practice studio with no windows. (However, if such a room contained a Mason and Hamlin BB, I might be willing to give it a try!) \:D

It does seem that it takes a certain personality type to be able to endure even the limited solitude of home practice sessions- is it any coincidence that my most extroverted friends are not at all drawn to piano?

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#981345 - 07/19/08 01:18 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3489
Loc: US
Here's an interesting short clip (stops in mid sentence unfortunately) in which Gould talks about Bach on the piano:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxcmwdfCMfY&NR=1

Watching this and other clips of Gould, I have a hard time believing he had Asperger's. His appreciation of subtle humor, irony, and wit just don't seem compatible with that to me (but I"m not an expert on Asperger's.) Neurotic and hypochondriacal? yes. Autistic/Asperger's? I doubt it.

Steven,
you raise great questions. Please don't stop, as Kathleen said!

Sophia

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#981346 - 07/22/08 01:18 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
I find that Gould's open dislike of Chopin rather turns me against enjoying his much acclaimed performances of Bach. (Surprisingly, Angela Lear is a great fan of Gould's.)

On a different topic - I came across this snippet from an 1875 edition of a journal called The Academy which made me thankful that times have changed in respect of Chopin's tomb. You'd have thought that some of the people who must have known him during life would have taken better care of it:



For example, Solange would still have been alive.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#981347 - 07/22/08 06:00 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Thanks for the article, MaryRose. I am sure the writer would be so happy to learn the Chopin's grave is now THE showplace of the cemetery. I wonder if Solange ever visited his grave on a regular basis, when she got much older.

Chardonnay: Thanks for the clip on Gould. I took the opportunity to listen to several of his recordings while I was on youtube. I guess it's not a secret that Bach in not one of my favorite composers. But, I do believe, as so many do, that he was a genius.

Something happened today that might have a little bearing on how I feel about Bach's music.

About a year ago, Monica played "Overcome" (a new age piece by David Nevue) as her recital piece. I was, well...overcomed! I know nothing about new age music, but this one piece had a certain quality to it that haunted me. I ordered the sheet music, but I only got around to learning to play it about two weeks ago. It is not difficult (as with much of the New Age stuff), for there is constant repetition on various levels. The only tough spots are the transititions from one to the next. Anyhow, I was playing it today. I wasn't happy with my first performance, so I played it again. And then again...but about half-way through the third time, my dog let out such a high-pitched yelp that I thought the stove had fallen on her. I ran into the kitchen, only to find her in her usual napping place, behind the sofa, eyes closed.

I have a feeling she was telling me that she could only take two takes of that piece (it does have many discordant chords); it may have hurt her ears.

As I listened to Gould play, I also experienced a bit of this. Not that it hurt my ears so much (well, in spots it did), but it made me rather nervous. As if I was trying to listen to several people all talking to me at the same time, all trying to tell me something very important, but I couldn't make any sense of any of it.

I DO appreciate that he wrote all those voices, going with or against each other, weaving in and around one another, bouncing off and bouncing back again... and just how exceedlingly difficult this must be.

And it is because I am such a melody person, I do find it almost painful to listen to his music for any great length of time.

Some people on the forum have posted that they find his music soothing and capable of bringing about a good emotional state of being. huh??

JFWIW,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981348 - 07/22/08 11:55 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1420
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Kathleen,

Perhaps since Gould was so concerned with bringing out the meaning of every voice (as well as being a nervous person), you were having more trouble than usual with them "all talking at once"?

Honestly, Bach's contrapuntal works do put me into another world, a purer one than this. I enjoy that very much, and I think all those voices just give us MORE wonderful melodies to appreciate! I get intellectual enjoyment out of playing Bach and seeing how all those parts fit together, though I do find much of his work very difficult. The problem I have with Bach is the tangled fingerings that are often necessary, especially as one often has to cross the hands on the inner parts. My brain doesn't handle that well.

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






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#981349 - 07/23/08 08:33 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Thanks, Elene:

I am going to quote your last sentence: "My brain doesn't handle it well." That pretty much sums it up for me.

I believe one has to really think about the music that brings the most joy or happiness. And for me, it is the pureness and elegance of the melody line. Not that Chopin didn't write some complicated stuff; he did. But one can always hear that melody. It is almost like a lifeline.

Once again, I will state that I do know that Bach's music is the most respected and loved by practically all classical music fans (maybe Beethoven is a very close second). And I have no argument with this. I can understand its appeal, but it's just not for me (at least, not on a regular basis).

And, I can understand how some might think of Chopin's music as overly emotional or romantic. Whereas in Bach, one has to hunt for that emotion (in my opinion). I know it's there, but it takes some thought to find it.

Please remember all of the above is just my personal feelings on the subject. I know I am in the minority, but that's O.K.

Everyone, have a super day,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981350 - 07/23/08 01:46 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Chardonnay Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 505
Loc: Boston, MA.
Kathleen: having a love for Chopin's music definitely does NOT put you in the minority! \:\)

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#981351 - 07/24/08 12:01 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3489
Loc: US
Elene,
I have similar feelings about Bach. It's a totally absorbing experience to play or hear his music played well and the mastery and perfection of his composition is mind boggling.

Hi Kathleen,
I don't want to turn this into the "just for those totally devoted to Glenn Gould" thread ;\) but you might enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoQDofxpNsI

It's Gould playing Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony in the Liszt transcription. If you've only heard his Bach playing it might show a different and more melodic side of his playing (not to mention the sound of his famous CD 318 piano he had customized to almost sound and play like a harpsichord or fortepiano).

Your love of Chopin and his music is inspiring to all of us.

Sophia

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#981352 - 07/25/08 08:47 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Chardonnay: (How I Love that Name!)
I really didn't mean that I thought I was in the minority loving Chopin's music, but merely in the minority of classical music fans who are moved by Bach's music.

Sophia: Thank you for youtube post of Gould playing Beethoven. Now that's more like it! I certainly enjoyed his performance and listened to several others (not Bach). From the look on his face, it would appear that he loved playing Mr. B's compositions also. I found his interpretation of Beethoven's Pastoral quite lovely (although a little muddy in some parts). This symphony was my very first introduction to Beethoven and has a special place in my heart.

We hear the word "genius" so often, especially when referring to the musical, literary and technical giants of the past and present, of course.

I would like to know what your idea of genius is. In another thread, someone posted a clip/s of a blind man who had perfect pitch and could play any music perfectly upon hearing it just one time. I believe this young man was considered a savant by many. Then the discussion arose as to whether he could be considered a genius because of his very special gift.

One of Webster's definiitions: "extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity c : a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high IQ" -- "a gift"

The word itself comes from the Latin: "spirit--natural inclinations."

I had to really think about what I would consider a genius. Would the following fit into this category: Stephen King, Steve Jobbs, Frank Lloyd Wright, George Gershwin, Rembrant, Marie Curie, Shakespeare, Bill Gates, Artur Rubinstein, Lincoln? And many others.

I believe that a genius is born with a natural inclination in a specific area. In other words, a gift or inborn talent. But, and this is a big but, that talent has to be developed and nutured and refined. This takes almost an obsessive and complete passion for bringing it to its fullest degree.

I think there are thousands (maybe millions) of people born with a special talent, but for many reasons, do not have opportunity or circumstance to achieve greatness.

And yet, I have heard that genius always finds a way.

So I guess I am a bit comfused.

What do you think>?

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981353 - 07/25/08 10:53 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3489
Loc: US
Hi Kathleen

Glad you enjoyed the Gould performance of Beethoven's 6th-- I think there are places where he's creating a "wash" of sound as part of the orchestral effect- perhaps that is what you are hearing as "muddy". (We should also give credit to another genius, Franz Liszt, for translating this symphony so gorgeously and naturally to the piano!)

Define genius? well, we can just as easily define what is "art"-- several thousand years of debate and still no resolution. You could operationalize it as xx standard deviations above the mean on an IQ test but I don't think that really captures it. For me the essence of true genius is the ability to make us see or hear or think about the world differently through a work or performance; that somehow opens up a whole other level of insight or truth that it makes it impossible to not reevaluate everything that came before it and influences everything that comes after it. Love it or hate it, it becomes a benchmark. Tall order, huh?
But I do think that is what Gould did with Bach, what Beethoven and Shakespeare did, what Chopin and Einstein did-- but not Stephen King! \:\)

I think genius is much rarer than talent and by its very nature is probably impossible to define a priori-- true genius will defy the boundaries of its own definition by its very nature. It surely defies my ability to define it since I'm most definitely not one! \:D
Sorry for rambling on somewhat incoherently here. I'm reminded of the Supreme Court justice trying to define pornography and finally throwing up his hands and saying something like "I can't define it but I know it when I see it!"

Sophia

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#981354 - 07/26/08 08:15 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hi Sophia:

Boy...you said a mouthful! \:\) It's obvious that you have given much thought to the definition of genius (you are deep! ). And there is much truth in what you have written. I do love your ending quote about not being able to define it but knowing it when seeing it.

However, this line does suggest that the meaning of genius can be quite subjective. :rolleyes: I bet if you asked the average person on the street who they thought was/is a genius, you would get some very interesting answers. Probably the first name that would pop into most people's minds (those over 50) would be Einstein. Yet, only other geniuses could ever understand his theories. And I have read that he was so absent-minded that he often wore different shoes and walked around in his night clothes. This only suggests that his mind was on more important matters.

And is a high I.Q. indicative of genius? There are many out there with I.Q.'s in the genius range who lead very "normal" lives and really do nothing extraordinary.

And then one might consider serial killers, who often tested out with high I.Q's, and yet they chose to use their abilities in the most dreadful of ways.

It's curious that you don't think of Stephen King as a genius because if you read any of his books, you might be surprised. I am not recommending that you do so...ugh. But I was a big fan of his for many years until I couldn't understand half of what he wrote. He has a way of delving into the psyche of his characters that is truely profound...albeit gruesome and troubling.

I wonder what Chopin's I.Q. would have been? Way up there with Einstein or somewhere in the middle range? He certainly had all the characteristics of a genius, and yet he was so unlike one in that he was concerned about what others would think of him (how he wanted to be discrete about his relationship with Sand, how he dressed for the public, how fussy he was about this creature comforts, how upset he would get with bad reviews of his works or performances, how he hated to appear in public [again, fearful of unkind critics and such]). It would appear to me that he had a very strong human side and yet his music contradicts most ideas of how a genius would act or appear. In two words: he cared. And I wonder if most genius do.

Does this make sense? I, also, have been rambling.

My best to all,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981355 - 07/26/08 09:15 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3489
Loc: US
HI Kathleen

Not sure about deep-- but maybe in over my head! ;\) I guess I'm trying to get away from the IQ- genius definition as I am thinking of genius as much more rare and profound than a high IQ ("smart") . There's lots of smart people out there, including Stephen King \:\) , but few true geniuses. I won't have much time for the forum in the next few days, so I'm going to let someone else have a go at this... anyone??


Sophia

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#981356 - 07/26/08 05:38 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Thanks, Sophia. I appreciate your input. \:\) Have a good time at whatever is keeping you away from us. \:\(

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981357 - 07/28/08 08:22 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
I agree with Sophia that genius isn't merely having a high IQ. Somehow I don't think Beethoven would fare particularly well on an IQ test for example (of course I might well be wrong) - but that doesn't stop us recognising his undeniable genius.
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#981358 - 07/29/08 09:15 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I was just thinking of you, MaryRose. \:\) And it goes without saying that I'm happy that you have posted. Where is everyone else?

Anyhow, your point about Beethoven and his scoring high on an IQ test is well taken. We all know that a written or even an oral test is and can be discriminatory and biased.

I can only add that perhaps genius can not be measured by us mere mortals. It is definitely thinking outside of the box and then acting upon that thought.

I had a rather unsettling experience this weekend. My brother's children (ranging in age from 18 to 34) all have the "gift" of being able to play music without any kind of training. To test my memory, I sat at their really out-of-tune piano and played as much of Bach's Prelude in C Major as I could remember without the sheet music. It wasn't very much, perhaps the first 10 measures or so.

Then my nephew (18) played next. He took a few moments to place his fingers in a certain position, and what came next was truly amazing. It wasn't any composition by Bach, I'm sure. But it certainly sounded by it. He's never had a lesson and can't tell a C from a F#!! And, he played for about 2 minutes! Good grief...it was enough to put me in a grand funk that lasted the whole day.

I'm not saying he is a genius, for I know he isn't. But when it comes to music, he and his siblings possess that certain something that is indefinable.

Still...I would rather be able to read music than have to rely on that "something."

I should mention that it is quite obvious that they inherited this ability from their mother. My brother couldn't carry a tune if his life depended on it.

So I could never, ever impress them, even if I played all of Chopin's nocturnes and a few ballades. They wouldn't think it was such a big deal.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981359 - 07/29/08 09:44 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I agree with what others have offered about "genius." Even if it were clinically defined merely by high i.q., the concept seems to require something more in the order of creativity (and the application of that creativity).

Actually, one of the first dictionary definitions Kathleen provided captures this after all: "extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity."

Hey, how about a weird "Six Degrees of Separation" thing I just experienced?

When we were talking about Glenn Gould, and specifically the film 32 Short Films ..., I was going to mention that I really like the actor who portrayed Gould—a Canadian named Colm Feore.

I first took notice of him in the television miniseries "Storm of the Century," written by Stephen King. It was riveting, especially the bone-chilling finale.

My comment wouldn't have had much significance when we were only talking about Gould; now that Stephen King has come up in a different context, I couldn't resist!

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#981360 - 07/29/08 10:46 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hi Steven:

I do remember that miniseries "Storm of the Century" by King. And I agree that it was extremely bone-chilling, as many of King's works are. I would venture that we could safely say that he does think outside of the box. So far outside of that box that it borders on insanity, at times. Nonetheless, he has written some very sane, yet disturbing works. He, himself, admits that he writes to scare the heck out of people, which he does extremely well. Just recently, I saw the movie: "The Mist." While it had the usual creature frights, it was more a study of human nature and the ending was totally believable and beyond despair.

I don't want to make this a King thread, but I do admire his ease and creativity with the English language...plus he is quite prolific! He may not be a Shakespeare, but I would venture to guess that he is more widely-read, which is sad. But, at least, it proves that people are still reading!!

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981361 - 07/29/08 12:02 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Chardonnay Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 505
Loc: Boston, MA.
Can you imagine being one of Steven King's children, and having him tell you bedtime stories??

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#981362 - 07/29/08 01:45 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Chardonnay: If you really think about it, some of the bedtime stories that were read to us were pretty scary. Hansel and Gretel, Snow White, Cinderella, and so on. They all seemed to have either wicked witches or evil stepmothers or some kind of nasty monster...Little Red Riding Hood, the wolf ate her grandmother. \:\( \:\(

Being a child of Stephen King's would have its advantages...$$$$$!! \:D \:D

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981363 - 07/30/08 08:34 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I'm a little concerned that we haven't heard from Matt in some time. \:\( I can only hope that the DVD I sent him arrived safely. I hope he wasn't offended by it (as some of us were ). Perhaps he has gone on holiday.

I am curious to know what he thought of it.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981364 - 07/30/08 09:54 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I don't mean to dwell on Glenn Gould, but it turns out that his recording of Chopin's third sonata (mentioned earlier by Cheeto717) is on YouTube! (Well, the first and last movements, anyway.)

Allegro Maestoso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0wErcLg1Pg

Finale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arfYFtc7hlw

This music is certainly Chopin at his creative peak, and seems thoroughly characteristic, too. It's Chopin through and through! It completely eludes me how Gould could find some value in this sonata but not, apparently, the rest of Chopin's oeuvre.

(The video portion is the score itself, which moves dynamically as the piece progresses. I love that!)

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#981365 - 07/31/08 08:55 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Thanks, Steven. I listened to both sections. The first was OK. I thought he didn't bring out the melody line as well as he could have, and, at times, I got the feeling he was just "mailing it in," so to speak.

However, the Finale was horrible. Good grief...the left hand was jumpy, erractic, and uneven. I'm no expert, as I have often said, but I think his love of Bach has influenced the way he plays other composers, well, at least, Chopin.

Perhaps, he should have just stayed with Bach, since so many agree that he was a genius at this.

I was reading a novel a few days ago, and the main character referred to Bach's music as mathematical precision. I think this term is a good description. So many love precision in music, and I can understand why. I believe it's because they know what is coming next, and it gives them a sense of security. Their music has "stability." And Lord knows, we so need stability in our lives.

Whereas, in the romantic genre, where emotion takes the place of precision, one never really knows where the music will go. Why this type of music appeals to others is, of course, just a guess on my part. I do think there is much charm and grace in Bach and Mozart, but there is something indefinable in Chopin. Something that takes you to the very edge...to a place where you have never been and where you almost feel totally exposed, if that makes sense. In contrast, there is a sense of adventure and, at times, almost danger. And we do need adventure in our lives; otherwise, it would be pretty dull.

Heck, I am rambling again.

Thanks again, Steven. And I wonder, as you do, what Gould found in this sonata that he didn't find in any of Chopin's other works. Just as well, I think.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981366 - 07/31/08 11:03 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
However, the Finale was horrible. Good grief...the left hand was jumpy, erractic, and uneven.[/b]
He probably was practicing/experimenting the first 30-40 seconds. He did not use any pedal so the LH sounds choppy, but his playing is extremely even. The rest of this movement is about as good as any one could possibly play it.

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#981367 - 07/31/08 12:35 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I won't argue with you, LA, because you are far more of an expert than I. But, like almost anything in the arts, opinions are very subjective. IOW, I know what I like, and I didn't like his performance. Perhaps he played it a little "too good," for my tastes.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981368 - 07/31/08 12:59 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I really liked the Finale, very colorful.

I remember learning my first Bach fugue. It was extremely hard to just learn the notes and be able to play them. But when I was done and could play all the notes at the right speed with only a few mistakes, my teacher said, "Okay, that was the easy part". Trying to bring out all the different voices and lines was the hard part and boy was it hard.

And as hard as it is to play the Ravel or Chopin pieces I play now, nothing really matches the difficulty I faced when learning that fugue.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#981369 - 07/31/08 01:16 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I liked Gould's Chopin, too!

In the finale, I was particularly intrigued by his staccato treatment of the first statement of the main theme. And those right-hand scale passages of the B theme were so legato and even that they sounded glissando-like.

BTW, there's another vid on YouTube of Gould playing the finale of Beethoven's "Moonlight" that I didn't find very congenial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82GmMQsOiY

Dang, it's more a flying prestissimo than merely presto, and, though technically accurate, the speed completely robs that heartrending secondary theme of its urgently plaintive appeal. IMHO, of course.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#981370 - 08/01/08 08:19 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I listened/watched Gould playing Beethoven's Emperor concerto. He was magnificient, and I know old Ludwig would have been very pleased with his performance. The man could certainly play the piano; that's a given.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981371 - 08/01/08 01:33 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Essex, England
Wow, I was just listening to both those Gould Finales - the Beethoven and the Chopin. I had to force myself to listen to the latter as I feel angry with Gould for not appreciating Chopin! His technique is phenomenal though.

I admit to finding the Beethoven quite exciting, but as Sotto Voce said, faster than the composer intended.

On another 'note' altogether, a friend of mine has just returned from Paris and she took a photo of Chopin's tomb, which seems to have more flowers than ever! I am a little worried about those blue roses; I do hope they aren't plastic. He wouldn't like that at all.

_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#981372 - 08/01/08 03:22 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
MaryRose:

That photo is gorgeous. The flowers are a riot of colors and shapes...exquisite.

Someday, in the not too distant future, I hope to be standing right in front of his tomb and add my own bouquet of violets. What a magnificient tribute to a magnificent human being.

Thanks so much for sharing,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#981373 - 08/01/08 09:07 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1420
Loc: under monsoon clouds
Mon dieu, even more flowers than when I was there, and I thought that was a lot! Of course, I was there before the height of tourist season.

So many people to share him with....

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






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