Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Question for the teachers: grade exams

Thank you ANZ for saying what I am thinking.

No. I know that she is not a believer in exams, and has perfectly good reasons for her stand. If she absolutely refuses, that would be unfortunate. But I wouldn't change teachers because of that -- she has been terrific for my daughter's musical development.

However if I did not think very highly of her, then I would be tempted to.

It just seems a little strange to me to disbelieve (on the back of perfectly valid reasons to dread) that a child might spontaneously be keen on doing an exam. Children have all sorts of reasons for wanting to do an exam, like they want the certificate, their friend did an exam...

I mean, there is no particular reason, from the child's point of view, to suspect that something dreadful will happen.

I still find this confusing. Your daughter is doing well with this teacher, and she enjoys what she is doing. Her teacher does not seem to need to use exams to help her guide your daughter. Or at least, you don't seem to indicate that her teacher is lost in any way about where your daughter is. That is the purpose of exams, is it not - to help teachers know how to guide the student. So why is it unfortunate if she does not want to do exams? Is it not the judgment of the professional to know what tools she should and should not use?

I have seen no reasons given in this thread for having exams, but several reasons for not having them. That is, a parent gave college entrance as a reason. Even if it is for music study at the college level - my own child's admission was based on an audition and then a theory exam that was administered by the university. They are interested in knowing whether a student can play music with skill and understanding. From what you describe, that is what your daughter's teacher is giving her.

If on the other hand she is not teaching your daughter things that are usually featured on exams, such as ear training, and you think that if she got exams your daughter would get that skill, why not ask her about giving her ear training? That can be done without an exam.

To put matters into perspective, my own child was a late starter, and he opted out of exams so that his teacher would be able to concentrate entirely on working on what he needed to learn the most, without worrying about the agenda of the exams. This line of thinking made a lot of sense.

Keystring has raised a worthy issue. Ten years from now, when little Janey from California wants to apply to a college or university, and her ambitious mom is hopeful that nonacademic music exams will enhance her chances of admission, that institution will instead want to hear her play, not view her past certificates of achievement.

For that matter, a written recommendation from a piano teacher would carry more value than an exam certificate.

Yes, I think ten years from now a lot of things will change. They used to have a Path B but from this year they get rid of Path B because it is not transparent enough for the college admission office to differentiate Path A and Path B.
I am pretty sure that a good teacher that provide solid foundation for well round balance piano education will help student to face any changes challenge in the future (ten years from now). I am afraid of some parents who taking piano lesson for the sake of taking test will produce students who cannot be creative in solution when real challenge comes.

Sorry, add on...
In another word, balance piano education can be done by taking test or not taking test. The keyword here is BALANCE.
A good piano teacher should balance everything from theory to performance to sight-reading and ear training. A good piano teacher should be able to notice which area is weak and trying to make it better etc.....

The piano teachers may find this completely laughable, but the reality is universities today are looking for students who not only excel in their studies, but in other areas as well. I am talking about regular college admissions, not going to college to study music where I suspect she will be selected on her own merit rather than a CMTA certificate. These kids have to show excellence in non-academic areas, countless hours of social work, ... in their applications. From what I understand, just saying that she plays piano is not going to get her any brownie points -- at least based on today's admissions processes. The admissions process certainly won't be the same in 10 years, but not knowing what it will be, its better to think about it in the context of what is known today. Given how much time she spends on piano, she will not be on that school softball team or whatever the kids who are spending their time a different way will have to say in 10 years.

Anyway, for the doubters, I would say don't look at the music education that you are providing just from one perspective. Just as the teachers have to think about the other aspects of their profession, the parents also have to consider how to leverage their kids music education. May be college will become so expensive that nobody can send their kids to college, and none of this will matter.

Why not both? Plus a list of music awards and exam scores from K-12? It certainly looks better than those folks who wait until 9th grade to take Level Advanced, pass it, and never touch piano again.

rlinkt, it looks like you have isolated some goals that you have in mind for your child. it helps a teacher to know your goals, so that she can design her program around your (and hopefully the student's) goals.

I was writing in as a parent, not teacher, btw. My children are in their mid-twenties so the college considerations were like "yesterday". The one who entered music looked at the lifestyle and environment of soloists and eventually opted out. He optimizes computer networks and troubleshoots for companies, and finds that many of the skills gained through serious music study have helped: self discipline, independent thinking, recognition and playing with patterns, creativity (thinking outside the box).

We come from many countries and many walks of life. I don't know how close the US and Canadian college systems are. Financial unreachability and/or crushing student loans are probably similar. Enjoy your children's childhood - it goes by all too fast.

Hi everyone,

I blogged about the whole issue of exams recently and have been receiving some very interesting comments. You might like to read about it here: "Why working to exams is anti-piano".

Tim:

What your article should blame is the teacher, not the test! There's absolutely nothing wrong with testing, or the test itself. The problem is the teacher who teaches solely to the test! And parents/students who take comfort in knowing that "passing" level 2 means the student has the "ability" of level 2.

If the teacher can't find more pieces to teach than the 3 required pieces per year, then the teacher is ill-equipped to teach and should not be teaching at all.

Interesting points, and discussion on your blog. I am completely in agreement with you that setting the target as passing an exam is missing the whole point. And that's not just for music.

In many ways, your arguments hold for many areas, such as academics. There are people who study to ace the exam, and people who study to develop a deep understanding of the subject.

Thank you for sharing this thoughtful essay.

And there are people who develop a deep understanding of the subject and therefore pass exams quite effortlessly.

I took piano lessons for 14 years (from age 3 through age 17). My piano teacher was amazing, and taught a popular method vs. the typical RCM (Royal Conservatory in Canada). This was great. I learned many skills, including theory, playing by ear, and playing chord charts (or comping as some call it).

Fast forward to later life. I'd love to begin teaching piano lessons. I've taught music lessons in another city (keyboard, guitar, drums) in a less formal setting (think "School of Rock"), and I feel I would be an excellent teacher. Unfortunately, because I never took exams, and didn't do a music degree, this option isn't as open to me as an independant teacher.

The first question everyone asks is "What grade RCM did you take?" One area piano teacher actually said that all those lessons were "wasted". Of course, I disagree, but I do wish I had an external validation of the level of piano performance that I had achieved. I wouldn't recommend to "younger me" to do an exam every year, but select milestones (grades 3, 6, 8) would have been a great addition.

Speaking as a college teacher in California, I can say that we DO look at whether or not a student has participated in CM and, if so, to what level. It gives us a bit of a ready profile of what theory and technique have been covered and that they have had exposure to a historical swath of literature.

I have, in the last 15 years, occasionally come across a student who has spent the entire year learning only the CM pieces, but that is a rare case. As a CM evaluator, I find most of the students to be pretty well-rounded.

How effective exams are has everything to do with the attitudes of the teacher, the parent and the student. They have to be a team if anything in piano study is to be worthwhile.

I'm with Beth - totally agree that it's really about the student and what will be best for him/her.

I have just posted on another thread about this. I still sometimes struggle with Grade 3 piece even though I have taken and got my exam. The way I have been working so far with my teacher is this.........

Tell teacher i want to do exams

Teacher agrees and we get books
Work on pieces,scale etc

Sit the exam

When we wait for results we work on one or two pieces at that level

When the results come through we look at them and I usually pass

We then immediately get the books reuired for the next Grade and start working on the next Grade as soon as possible.

At no time does the teacher ask me if I feel I am completely confident playing Grade 3 pieces and suggesting that unless and until I am, we will not move forward to Grade 4. Why is teacher heck bent on moving forwards like this? What is the teacher gaining out of moving a student forward so fast? Is it for self gratification so that the teacher can say all my students pass their exams so the teacher gets a pat on the back? My music school has been noted as 100% pass rate for exams so any parent knowing that would send their child to the school for lessons, because after all, no student fails an exam. I have not failed an exam, but I can tell you that I do not feel confident picking up any piece of Grade 3 material and sitting down and playing it and doing it fluently in a couple of days. That is where REAL learning comes..NOT from having a suitcase full of exam certificates where all you have done is cram like blazes for the exam so you pass and anyone who has had no musical training or doesn't know the first thing about learning music will be amazed and think you are a wonderful pianist.

On another note...when I got the examiners sheet from my exam, he noted down that one of my exam pieces sounded rather dry because I had not used the pedal. The piece did not require a pedal, there was no pedalling in the score so it was not used. I queried this with the head of my music school and said we should complain but he said it is not worth it. Is he correct or should I complain myself. The other thing I queried is that when I did my aural and had to sing echo the examiner said I sang three wrong notes and I know I did not. My teacher told me I can sing on the right note so the head of my school said perhaps the acoustics were not right in the exam venue so that it sounded wrong when in fact it was right. Again, he did not want to take this up with anyone as a complaint. Why should I be given lower markings for not using pedal when no pedal was required and for not singing the echo right when I know full well it WAS. I wanted my school to go back for clarification as to why the examiner made these comments, but they are not prepared to do so. Surely as I took the exam and feel I have been unfairly marked in those areas, is it not my right to get reasons why the examiner said what he said? Nobody should just accept what someone says if they feel it is unfair.


I think that perhaps it is seriously time to find another music school and teachers.

My daughter has tests (not music) with a panel of judges. Each judge writes comments and gives a score for each thing she does. We would never argue with a judge. They are professionals and have nothing to gain or lose by the scores they issue. Sometimes a judge gives a high score and another gives a low score for the exact same task. They are trained and have 30+ years experience but they still have things that they are aware of individually. So we say thank you respectfully and move on. If we don't like a score or in a competition didn't like the outcome, we never bad mouth the judges. For whatever reason they wanted something different.

This goes with the other thread you're referring to.

Now in regards to your questions in the other thread - the first thing here is that you have told your teacher the goal of doing exams. As a main goal this is aiming for something that is secondary and somewhat beside the point. The main point of music lessons is learning to play music on an instrument. Exams are a means of assessing whether the learning is on track, seeing what needs to be strengthened etc. When the assessment becomes the main goal, and the learning tasks are geared toward the assessment then it's all upside down.

A good idea is to figure what you want to learn. Is it to play the instrument well? To be able to dash off your favorite tunes in a general manner? To be able to improvise, or play jazz? These are real goals. Then you tell a prospective teacher these goals, and ask that teacher to do whatever s/he thinks best to help you reach those goals, and cooperate. Since teaching goes toward goals, the results will reflect the goals.

It appears now that your teacher did exactly what you asked for: prepare for exams. The logical order for exam-oriented lessons is that once you pass the exams for one grade, you go on to the next grade. That's what's happening.

You have some wrong ideas here. But

Correct. You set the wrong goal.


There are a couple of things to consider here. Some of the things you can be learning in piano lessons are elements of musicianship - how to think and act like a musician. That goes beyond what you do to pass exams, and personally I find this much more interesting as a student. Playing music goes beyond following the instructions written in the score. The musician will use knowledge about music and about the instrument and his ear to make decisions which will make the music sound good. A teacher who passes these things on gives a treasure. A judge who passes these things on is also giving a treasure which you can use.

If you aim to get high grades in an exam then you are aiming for an unimportant thing. If you look at these exams differently, as a learning opportunity then it is a rich thing. For example, with this pedal, if your teacher is up to it, then this could turn into an exploration and a discussion. "How can this music be made to sound better? If I had the skills, what might I do with it? Is it in fact dry? What makes music "dry"? What kinds of things make a piece come alive?" There are many things you could do with a comment like that.