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Hi Everyone

Just wanted to finally stop lurking and introduce myself.

I've recently (as in yesterday!) started to learn the piano with Alfred's AIO Book 1.

I do have some musical background, having played guitar, banjo and ukulele for 20-odd years, although the finer points of musical theory and keyboards in particular have been a mystery to me all my life. With my impending doom (ie my 40th birthday) getting ever closer, I decided that it was time to change that and actually be able to play that piano that's been in my mother's house since I was a boy.

I've been reading this forum for a few weeks now, trying to decide which method to use (I live on an island off the west coast of Scotland, and piano teachers are pretty hard to come by here, so I'm doing it solo, I'm afraid) and the sheer number of posts here and the quality of the recordings and YouTube videos by this forum's members made me go for the Alfred's All In One. I've had it for a few days (I got it and the Level 1 Greatest Hits book) and it looks excellent.

I've started at the very beginning and although a lot of the theory stuff was pretty simple (since I've a basic background there) I thought it best to go through the book from scratch since I'm a complete piano newbie. I've made reasonable progress over the weekend (when the kids, wife, dog, cats and garden have allowed) and I've reached "Jingle Bells" which was a bit of a challenge (!) but I finally got there.

I'm playing at the moment on a pretty bad Yamaha keyboard that I borrowed from my sister in law. I'll be getting the piano that I mentioned above later this year, but I just couldn't wait 'til then to get started. It's great fun, even on my toy piano.

Welcome Sorenlorensen!!! Excellent progress for a weekend. Like you, turning 40 was a real motivator to start learning to play. I am a bit of a procrastinator though.....it took an additional 3 years to put the plan into action

Great to see some new people. Enjoy the learning process. Let us know how you're doing in the book.

Soren, I remember when I got to Jingle Bells. I didn't think it was all that easy at first either.

Greetings to the new folks.

I had my bi-weekly lesson this afternoon and it went pretty good.

I approached things a little differently this time.

I always have a hard time getting started playing for my teacher when I have to practice the night before, sleep all night, work all day, drive to the lesson and then play for him from a cold start. It never goes well at the beginning.

Last night I asked my dear wife to endure 15 minutes of my playing the pieces I needed to demonstrate to prep me for playing for a 'listener'. Then when I got to the lesson I started out with my scales which are going fairly well. C at least, G and F are another story. Next up I played Blues for Wynton Marsalis which is a favorite of mine. I like it a lot and have been playing it a lot. We played it with a drum track and he played a bass line for me. That was fun and he passed me on it. With my confidence building I next tackled Lullaby and finally got through it correctly and was able to get it passed and 'put to bed'. Then we moved on to On Top of Old Smokey and I did well enough on that to get it passed as well.

So, I ended up getting passed on 3 more pieces and we moved on to some new material. We started The Can Can and right now it looks like that one may be challenging. We also started the Marine's Hymn and I think that will be fairly easy.

Mooshinator, a question for you, I think you have been working on What A Wonderful World. So have I but it is testing my patience. I keep having difficulty with having my fingers in the right places at the right time and seem to spend way too much time trying to figure out which note to play. It's not coming along very good. We worked on it for a while today and my teacher gave me some tips but also said not to worry too much about this one. He said it is not very well arranged and will probably not sound great or be very comfortable to play due to it. He showed me a different way to play it putting the melody all in the right hand and playing broken chords in the left. It sounded very nice that way and seemed much simpler. What are your thoughts on it?

GracieCat, how did your lesson go?

Hi all,

I played my piano yesterday with the book for the first time in a while, I'm about 2/3 thru. I think I'm going to actually try to practice more often, though it is hard ever since I've been thinking about getting an acoustic piano. I've slowed down... I have a great keyboard but I don't want to play it sometimes. I guess I should just take the mini trek to the music school at the university and play a real piano there. I also should look at what I do have as a blessing and use it more often.

Well, adios folks

-J

I guess my lesson went ok. I'm really tired of playing some of the junk. I was passed on Joy to the World. Still not passed on Lullaby. Frankly, I'm sick of it and I'm not practicing it anymore. Sometimes I can play it fine and sometimes not. I hate baby songs.

She wants my to memorize Happy Birthday and play it in 2 keys with chords which isn't bad, but it's another song I'm sick of. She wants me to play it for the recital. Again, another baby song I can't stand. I even hate hearing it at birthdays.

Not passed on Cockles and Mussels because I played the 2nd to last measure wrong in the right hand. She's always looking for perfection with the notes.

Moved on to Got Those Blues, Chasing The Blues Away and Blues for Wynton Marsalis. Finally something different and fun.

She picked out a new song out of my Sacred book. I can play slowly through it. Shouldn't be much of a problem. There's another song in that book I just keep messing up time and time again though. I keep making errors in all different parts. I think I have all the mistakes ingrained in my brain. It's time to put it to rest too.

She had me sight read 3 patriotic songs. She thought I did really good. Frankly, the songs were so easy I could have done them 2 months ago. I would almost classify them as baby songs, but she played as well to make them into duets. That was fun! Book name: Patriotic Songs by Hal Leonard (5 finger piano) We'll do one of them for the recital.

Other than my hand position, I don't know that I'm learning anything from her. It's not earth shattering information to hear her tell me where I made a mistake. I know when I played a wrong key. I know when I skipped using the pedal. I know if I got my fingering messed up in an area. I know if I didn't play staccato or vice versa. She is working with me some to teach me to play by ear.

I don't know. I'd be happy to go back to learning on my own. Come June I will.

JDSY, honestly, I love playing the keys on my acoustic piano. The piano was cheap ($475 delivered), and is in good shape. I had it tuned last week and the guy said it wasn't far off. There are times I wish I had a keyboard so I could put headphones on and play at night though. Good luck with your decision.

Doug, glad your lesson went well. You have lessons twice a week? You're really moving along in the book.

No, I go once every two weeks. I started out with once a week for 30 minutes but he had a conflict with another student that was doing an hour every other week. That seemed like a better approach so I use the opposite weeks at the same time. It seems to be working out well. 30 minutes wasn't enough time for a lesson and the 2 week interval gives me plenty of practice time.

I know where you're coming from on the pieces like Lullaby. I hate it now too, even though it sounds nice when played well. I did get passed on it finally after over 4 weeks of practicing it over and over but I still have difficulty with it about half the time. I had the same problem with Lavender's Blue.

On the other hand there are a few pieces that give me great satisfaction. Blues for Wynton is one and (gasp!) Blow The Man Down is another.

I also have my doubts on the teacher issue. I'm not convinced that I wouldn't be just about where I am now without him and is it really worth the money. Like you, it's pretty much pointing out the mistakes I already knew I made, and giving me assignments that I would have done anyway. The benefits I see are someone to hold me accountable, and a resource for questions, problems. etc. I have no plans to stop them, I made a committment to myself to do them for a year and see where I'm at after a year.

Your teacher sounds a lot more strict than mine. He passes me even with a few mistakes if he senses that I get what is being taught with the piece. It has to be pretty good but not perfect note-wise. I have to get the rhythm perfect and the dynamics have to be understood and at least fairly good, but a note missed here and there is not a big deal to him. I don't think I would do well if I had to get all the notes perfect. Many of the pieces I do but not all of them.

I am surprised sometimes by what my teacher will pass and fail. She is not a perfectionist, I can miss a note or make a mistake and she is okay with that. But there are specific leaning points she will not let pass. Or maybe she has an objective in mind that the lesson serves to enable. Timing on Lullaby eight notes was extremely difficult for me to pass. I could get the notes – but had a devil of a time getting the right timing. Cockles and Mussels was the other way round. I had to get the notes perfect and timing was not so much the point. In the case of Lullaby the intent was to lead into an off pages discussion of swing/straight eights. Or maybe it was my struggle that lead to that discourse. The objective for Cockles and Mussels was to get into a chord construction discussion. That was a somewhat theoretical and enlightening topic. Or maybe that was my reward for going through the learning pain. My teacher is sensitive like that. All in all, it is not perfection for perfection sake that she is seeking. At least not yet… maybe that is a learning stage I have not achieved yet? I have a lot of confidence in her approach and guidance. Exactly why I pass/fail becomes less confusing once I understand the objectives.

No lesson this week due to spring break. So I am continuing practice, focusing on Chiapanecas & O Sole Mio. Also Love Me Do from a Beatles Anthology. Actually, I play quite a few things outside of the lesson material. I put them into two different buckets. The lessons are things I need to know. The rest are things I just love to play for myself. I put my lessons as priority, but try to find time for a least one other each day. I like to have a little fun. I don’t really present my outside material in teaching sessions. So I am judge and jury on those. And plus to all that - Hanon.

And speaking of Hanon… I have a Roland DP with a plethora of synthetic sounds. I almost always play Piano 1, always for practice lessons and extracurricular tunes. But I got to messing with the various sounds – who could resist that? So I was doing Hanon and ran through that set of exercises using one after another of the synth sounds. That was interesting. Nothing sounds better than Piano 1 to me. So experimenting with sounds was not rewarding that way. But I found using the different sounds cause me to focus on little nuances in my fingering. Some sounds have very weak attack, or others have very sensitive dynamics. Some of the sounds are ridiculous clanging, thrashing and whistles – entirely distracting. Those changing sonics reinforce the need for concentration and control. The sounds lack the ‘normal’ sonic feedback one would expect. I found myself adapting fingering technique to accommodate the various synth sounds as I played through. It takes a lot of concentration to get though that mess of sounds. That was fun. I ran through the first 36 sound settings in one long afternoon and evening. That is a lot of Hanon. If nothing else, I got my fair share of Hanon. I would never do Hanon 36 times if I didn’t have the DP sounds. That is for sure. I do not expect to fiddle with the synth sounds much in the future. But I did think it interesting how different aspects of fingering and focus were called out through that effort.

The Roland Piano 1 is actually pretty much all I really like sound-wise. And I don’t think that holds a candle to the sound of a true acoustic. But that is what I have.

I do material on my own. I think I could make a go of it totally without a teacher. It would be the way for me if I felt my teacher was not appropriately engaging with me. I feel fortunate have the teacher that I have. It is a relationship I enjoy. So I try to do my part in as a diligent student. It is a partnership. But I think the driving force in my progress is my own dedication and desire. I am going to get there, with or without a teacher. I am sure anyone else can too. Life is too short to endure bad relationships. On the other hand, life is too short to not enjoy and nourish the good ones.

Captain Zero - You and I are just about in the same place in Alfred's. I'm currently working on Little Brown Jug,Chiapanecas, and O Solo mio all at the same time. I find that working on a few songs at the same time relieves the boredom of just working on the same song over and over...... Think BTMD!!!!! No teacher tho'...I'm going to wait until I'm half-way through Alfred 2.

Cockles and Mussels was interesting for me because it's one of those "chestnuts" from grammar school that I've never forgotten. I realized early on, that as you move up from that first C chord, you end up with Dm and Em before you get to F. No wonder, poor Molly is so depressed and ill! The book makes no mention of minor chords here, but from all my old guitar playing, they stand out like a sore thumb. Just as a joke, I played those minor chords as majors and that really changes things! In this more "upbeat version" Molly marries Mr Paul and goes on to fame and fortune selling those breaded fish sticks! LOL!

I'm like you, in that, sometimes, you have to put Alfred down and do a little experimentation on your own. Right now I'm playing "with" Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, which seems to use an easy arpeggiated chord accompanyment. Most people do it in the key of C, and I do have the sheet music for it. The way the arpeggiated chords are played seem to vary with the performer. Here's Rufus Wainwright doing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmbQEQltOwM

Unfortunately for me, I'm going to have to transpose it down to Ab or G. I haven't been a high Baritone or low Tenor for 40 years! Has anyone noticed how hard it is to sing with your own piano accompanyment at this point? It's like all your "concentration" has to go to the piano, with not much "left over" for the vocal part!!!

What scares me when looking down the road, will be the day that comes where those fingering numbers are non-existent and I dread I'll have to spend so much time trying to figure that aspect out, that I'll never get to actually play!!!! Hopefully, by the time we all get to Alfred 3, this will be less of a problem!

Hi guys,

It's great hearing about other's experience with the book. I just received mine yesterday, but I realized I ordered the copy without the CD. How critical is it to have the CD to accompany you? I'm teaching myself with no instruction currently. I know when I was learning to play guitar on my own the Hal Leonard books came with CDs that were very helpful to me. Plus it made playing more fun being "accompanied" rather than playing all by my lonesome.

Just curious what others thought of the CD, whether it would be worth trying to buy just the CD by itself for book 1 or if I should just "tough it out" until the 2nd book and buy that with the CD? I wish I'd read the description a little more carefully, as the CD version is only a couple dollars difference.

Hi all. I don’t post here often anymore but I lurk all the time and really enjoy y’all progresses.

Emissary, I just want to jump in and give my 2 cents after reading your post.

First, if you plan to take lessons with a teacher, the sooner the better. I had to drop Alfred, backtracked myself and restarted at a lower level of another method, equivalent to somewhere in the middle of Alfred 1. What I am doing now is even easier than BtMD. Imagine if I have been doing this with the teacher all along. I guess I’m at least 2 levels above what I am doing now.

Another point, I know the numbers are there and we can’t resist, but resist we must. If you practice properly, your eyes should only be seeing the notes. Use those numbers for guidance, which fingers play what notes only. If you don’t try to practice this aspect of the method, your reading skills won’t be on par with your playing skills. One day, you might even regret you didn’t try harder now. If you practice every aspect the method intends, your progress will be slower, but surely and solidly the entire way.

Hope you all are doing well. Best!

Hi Nguyen! I'm glad you're enjoying Piano Adventures and your new HP-307. I'm also curious about the Faber books and whether you prefer the material in them better than the Alfred's stuff. Did your teacher imply you were doing something wrong in regards to how you learned or played the Alfred pieces that you mastered? I just wonder whether some teachers seem to favor something like the Faber series over the Alfred's books because they are alot more familiar with one over the other.

If you thought I was one of those people who use the numbers over the notes to play rather than actually "read" the notes, I think I might have given you the wrong impression. I "do read" music very well after 40 years of guitar playing. I've often adapted piano transcriptions for guitar for quite a while. My concern originally, was that fingering for many pieces was basically something "written in stone", but then one has to consider the vast variation in hand sizes that exists. A 4 year old girl playing Fur Elise is probably not going to be using the same fingering technique that a 6ft 4 guy who can span an octave and a half without really trying!

It's funny though, when I got my YDP-160, it came with that 50 Greats for Piano and when I checked out "La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin", I found I had been fingering that piece (the two easy first measures) almost exactly as suggested, before I had ever seen them! I felt like I might not be a "hopeless case" after all!

Nguyen, when I read your post, I checked out the Piano Adventure books on Amazon. Do you think the Adult Books 1 & 2 are worth buying?

I've now noticed since I started playing piano, that I tend to look at other people's hands. My brother and nephew have much longer fingers than I do. I'm so jealous! I told my brother I'd really appreciate a hand transplant with me! He declined... needless to say!!!!

Who said I enjoy Piano Adventures? Just kidding, I really like it actually. No, my teacher didn’t mention anything about me doing something wrong. Piano Adventures is just a method we both agree to work on.

In fact, when I was about to complete Alfred 1, I started second guessing myself. Some Sundays during Mass, I was looking at very simple music, only treble clef, but still couldn’t figure out its rhythm and how it goes in my head. I could read, but that’s about it. So I thought maybe my basics aren’t right. I did a mini research on various methods again, and decided to rebuild my basics. Piano Adventures, I found, is favored by many teachers. So, I chose to restart myself with this method as my structure, and everything else supporting it. It was just luck that my teacher also teaches PA. She did mention however, that after years of trying, this is the method she likes most.

Yes, I got the wrong impression. Do you agree though, that when we read music, we don’t see those numbers, even if they are there? When I first started, I do read those numbers. After many hours, days, weeks of practice to ignore it, it works. Even though they are still there, when I read, I don’t normally see them unless I want to, to figure out my fingering. Just like to bring it up for folks who think it’s difficult. Yes, it’s very difficult, but if you persist, you’ll be just fine.

I’m not sure Emissary. I am working out of the Piano Adventures Basic series, not the Adult series, so I only know the Basic series. Post this question in the Piano Adventures Study Group, I’m sure Volusiano will chime in. He completed both of these. He has said he would check that thread now and then so I’m sure you’ll get some answers.

One thing I’d say though, Piano Adventures Basic goes at a much slower pace than Alfred Adult but it covers basics at a much sooner stage. For example, I’m working on 2a now and it already covers jumps and D-positions. I don’t remember doing these throughout the entire Alfred 1 book. Perhaps I'm wrong? I like the pieces in Alfred better still so I’m keeping both and working on both. PA as my main, must do lessons, Alfred as supplements. Also, I don’t want to be left behind from this group. Alfred is very slow progressing nowadays though. You guys will leave me in your dust soon.

GlassLove - Thank you for the welcoming, I've actually been here awhile and posted once or twice. I asked a question on time signatures and never came back as it's very difficult to understand certain answers through words and I was never able to understand what I asked so I basically gave up.

I'm learning it on my own which is why I look for answers as I have this book which basically gives a short intro and mostly a workbook it's by Lisa Ng and it's called Music Theory Made Easy Grade 1 and because I don't have a answer key, I got stuck doing it and being unsure.

Also, I've tried to understand this 4 counts and clap and all, still sounds confusing just reading so I don't really own a metronome but I've used it once or twice and that isn't really enough to understand the counts. Is there a place online, that covers the count. I even downloaded an iPhone metronome application, but none seemed ideal. Thank you for letting me know Alfred's doesn't contain any answer key and for sharing the additional book recommendations.

Captain Zero - Thank you very much for that recommendation, it's kind of what I guess I should be aiming at since I would like to understand the theory part better and need time there before trying to apply that to playing it on the piano. I'd like to know something else, I don't have a piano and I have a keyboard, is this going to be a problem as a beginner? I figured I start on it and play some and maybe even move up to the next grade and if it still holds my interest, then to get a piano. Is this achievable with a 61 keys keyboard?

I'll have a look at these few book suggestions, thanks for the response!
Flowerpoddess

Hi Doug, sorry I have not responded very quickly, been a busy week for me. So I guess I'm a little confused when you say "difficulty with having my fingers in the right places at the right time". I don't move my hands very much at all for that song; both of my thumbs are on middle D for the vast majority of the song until the end, when both hands move one key to the left to middle C position. Then I think there's one spot in the second bar where the left hand moves a key to the left and then back again.

So given the lack of movement, I haven't had all that much trouble with it, particularly compared to The Rainbow Connection which gave me fits for months. I am definitely not good at this song yet, but I can generally manage each individual part and am just working on putting them all together.

I do agree that the arrangement is bad. I was really looking forward to this song (it was my wedding song) but am a bit disappointed at how it sounds. So I don't plan on getting this song to the utmost perfection, I am just going to work until I can play it through in full halfway decently and move on.

At this point, I am still trying to perfect Lullaby. Every day after I play it for 20 minutes I get to the point where I can play it well, but then the next day I always backtrack and need to work it back up to form. Almost there, but very frustrating song!

I don't have a teacher, so I find the CD VERY helpful. I don't listen to it right away when I am learning a song, though. I attempt to figure out each piece from the sheet music, and once I establish how I think it should sound (even if I can't play it smoothly yet, I know in my brain how I think it should sound) I check myself against the CD.

Most of the time I get it right, but the CD has helped me catch mistakes a handful of times.

Now if you have a teacher, I don't think the CD would be as useful...

One tip if you do get the CD - when you first listen to it you will hear the piano part along with accompanying background music which makes it very hard to focus on just the piano. However, the background music goes to a separate channel (the left, I think), so if you turn off that channel you will hear only the piano which I find to be MUCH more useful...

I guess what I really meant was trying to figure out which fingers to play at the right time. I think my biggest difficulty with this piece is the different hand position and the slight movement in the second bar you mention. Like you, I can do individual parts ok, it's just the putting them together that is the hard part. And, the sucky arrangement doesn't help.

I just started to learn to play the piano from Alfred's Basic Book 1. I have been recording every piece that I learn. If you want to hear how some pieces sound or give feedback, all is welcome. Good luck on your journey!

http://www.youtube.com/nypiano

Yeah I think we are pretty much on the same page. I find the majority of the song to be pretty doable, but the two hand movement parts I can't do in time with everything else. The biggest issue for me is that because I don't care for the arrangement I haven't put a lot of effort into it. I play it maybe once or twice a day, in contrast to Lullaby which used to get 10-20 times a day until earlier today when finally it was approved by my family.

To be fair to the arrangement, it might not be that the arrangement is bad, per se, as much as that Louis Armstrong's vocals make SO much of this song that any attempt to translate it to music sans vocals will seem weak.

Emissary52



The only knock I've heard on Alfred, and this came from several sources here at PW and elsewhere, is that Alfred's students tend to develop what is known as a "weak left hand."
It stems from the fact that most of focus is on pieces that combine a melody in the right hand with a few simple chords in the left. The "weakness" that can develop, as I understand it, is lack of real hand independence, since the left is not really being used to do much more than move from one chord to another.

That weakness can remain hidden for a while, but eventually rears its ugly head when you try something that is polyphonic, like a Bach minuet, where you must carry separate melodies in each hand simultaneously.

Many adult students, myself included, want to play recognizable songs. Developing the hand independence and other skills, however, just might be better accomplished with pieces designed (or selected) to do just that.

I don't think everyone develops this problem, but I did.

Good luck.

Jim