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#1985575 - 11/12/12 12:59 AM New to the Forum [Help]
Kiel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Philippines
I'm Just new to the Forum and I made this account to ask on how i can improve my piano skills. I have been playing the organ since I was 14 yrs. old, I took up Piano Lesson(Basic). thru time I learn the to play by using ears but can barely read the piano sheets, I can play any song as long as I like it. im now 22 and I have been playing the organ for 8 years.

can you suggest me on what I should read or learn to improve my piano skills? I really don't know where to start.
if you want sample on my piano covers currently here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOM1oqQi...mp;feature=plcp

(pls no flaming I know its not great or anything I just want to improve my skill that's why I made this account)

Thank you.


Edited by Kiel (11/12/12 01:08 AM)

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#1985607 - 11/12/12 04:49 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
Allard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Netherlands
As a student myself, I can't advise you about what to read or learn, but I can assure you there's no flaming on this forum. Nothing to worry about.
_________________________
David Lanz - Dream of the Forgotten Child
Nobuo Uematsu - Aerith's Theme (Final Fantasy VII Piano Collections)

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#1985611 - 11/12/12 05:03 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
chopin_r_us Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 874
Loc: UK
You have an excellent natural technique especially how you relax after each chord - keep that up it's essential. You're sitting far too low - elbows are best level with the keys.

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#1985617 - 11/12/12 05:40 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3449
Well for me the obvious way to improve was to get a teacher. Even once a month might help you a long way.
_________________________

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#1985633 - 11/12/12 07:32 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1776
Loc: Pennsylvania
As I see it, and I am also mostly self-taught ...

is that you have several issues you need to deal with.

Number 1: It appears to me that you have a keyboard with those thin keys. That means to me that you have no "touch sensitvity" on your keyboard. So that would be the first thing ... Get a keyboard with keys similar to an acoustic piano.

Number 2: As already mentioned, your position at the keyboard needs some work ... you are sitting too low.


Number 3: You appear to have gained considerable skill at playing the pieces that you have learned. This can be a situation where you may not be happy with "starting over" completely and playing the simple tunes you may encounter. So, a standard beginners course may not be right for you.

We also you not know what you know about music by watching your videos. You may have memorized these tunes without any knowledge of what the notes or chords that are involved. If that is the case, you may need to start at the very beginning.


So, in consideration of these issues ... it absolutely would be best if you could get some guidance with a real person at least for awhile until you get going in some direction. A teacher would be best.

If a teacher is not right for you (for whatever reason) then you might go to a music store and try to get someone there to give you some direction. They can at least help with a proper instrument in your price range and perhaps a little guidance with positioning you at the keyboard. They may also have a suggestion as to a piano course they might suggest. You have to be careful with that, however, ... remember they may only be interested in suggesting things that are good for THEM and not you.

And, of course, the internet is full of tutorials, DVD courses, etc... which can help. You just have to find the right ones. They all profess to be fantastic but most (if not all) fall short of expectations.

Good Luck





Edited by dmd (11/12/12 07:36 AM)
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1985634 - 11/12/12 07:35 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 500
When you say you can barely read music, does this mean you don't know how to interpret certain aspects of notation, or you understand all of it but it comes very slowly when you try to read something?

BTW - I really liked your cover. I've never heard the song before but it was very nice. My compliments re: the right hand really singing and the left playing "second fiddle" as it should. I have a lot of trouble with that.

Would you consider posting this to the recital? You would get lots of positive feedback, and some constructive criticism as well that would help answer yourquestion re: progressing.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

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#1985645 - 11/12/12 08:22 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1776
Loc: Pennsylvania
One More Thing:

After meandering around with a little of this and that for a few years, I found that learning how to play music WHILE READING THE NOTATION opened up the world of possibilities. It takes a while to gain that skill (something I am still weak at) but I believe it is well worth it. I now feel more like I can actually play the piano instead of just memorizing pieces of music.

Now, that is not to say there are not other ways to reach your goals. It is just that learning to read music reasonably well gives you another option that can be used regardless of which direction you go with your music.



Edited by dmd (11/12/12 08:23 AM)
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1985656 - 11/12/12 09:09 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
Kiel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Philippines
Quote:
@Allard
As a student myself, I can't advise you about what to read or learn, but I can assure you there's no flaming on this forum. Nothing to worry about.

its ok, thank thought for the info.

Quote:
@chopin_r_us
You have an excellent natural technique especially how you relax after each chord - keep that up it's essential. You're sitting far too low - elbows are best level with the keys.

ahh, I see thank you, I should get a taller chair then.

Quote:
@wouter79
Well for me the obvious way to improve was to get a teacher. Even once a month might help you a long way.

sound easy but I dunno some teachers/Instructor here in my place who teach. the only person who thought me after I learned the basics was my cousin his a pianist but after a year we transferred and he went to texas. that started my self teaching. He left me a book Hanon part 1 its about hand exercise and scaling I play it sometimes now.

Quote:
@dmd
Number 1: It appears to me that you have a keyboard with those thin keys. That means to me that you have no "touch sensitvity" on your keyboard. So that would be the first thing ... Get a keyboard with keys similar to an acoustic piano.

uhmm... it has actually. touch response it has 4 options: 0 no touch, 1 ex light, 2 normal, and 3 heavy.
Quote:

Number 2: As already mentioned, your position at the keyboard needs some work ... you are sitting too low.

ill get a higher chair, just like chopin_r_us said elbows are best level with the keys.
Quote:

Number 3: You appear to have gained considerable skill at playing the pieces that you have learned. This can be a situation where you may not be happy with "starting over" completely and playing the simple tunes you may encounter. So, a standard beginners course may not be right for you.

before I record the song that i cover I play it over and over but still sometimes when i'm recording I tend to do mistakes.
its ok for me to start over aslong as it points mo to the right path.

Quote:
And, of course, the internet is full of tutorials, DVD courses, etc... which can help. You just have to find the right ones. They all profess to be fantastic but most (if not all) fall short of expectations.

I have tried and yah its not what im looking for.

Quote:
@aTallGuyNH
When you say you can barely read music, does this mean you don't know how to interpret certain aspects of notation, or you understand all of it but it comes very slowly when you try to read something?


what I meant was, I can't understand some notes in the piano sheet. and I am slow in reading notes but when I listen to the song I can get the chords when I get the chords I will know Instinctively where to press in the rhythm. or if I know how to play the rhythm I can also Instinctively know what chord to press. but when it come to sheets its hard for me.

Quote:
Would you consider posting this to the recital? You would get lots of positive feedback, and some constructive criticism as well that would help answer yourquestion re: progressing.

do you mean posting my cover here in the forum? is that correct?

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#1985672 - 11/12/12 10:03 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
ZoeCalgary Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 748
Loc: Calgary Alberta
Hi. Like you, I started on the organ (waaaaay back when I was 12). I took about 5 years of lessons and then stopped. I was learning from a method book. I learned lots of things that helped me when I decided to learned the piano last year (20+ years later). I learned to read music and concentrate on 3 musical lines (treble, bass, pedal). I learned timing of notes and rhythm. But for piano there are some things I had to adjust:

1. My touch, on organ it doesn't matter how hard you press the keys or how. On piano this is critical and probably my biggest adjustment especially for my left hand which usually banged out chords. So make sure what you are playing on is responsive to your touch.

2. Reading music for the bass clef is weak. I started with basic piano method level 1 and 2 books to improve these skills.

3. Dynamics are highly dependent on your touch on the keys. Again this is something I need to continue learning. Playing the right note is not enough on piano.

I would suggest you start on a level one piano method book such as Faber or Alfreds. I think you will find you know many of the concepts. But if there are gaps you will find those too. These books are quite methodical and will introduce new concepts slowly so you are not overwhelmed.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at your progress if you do this. Of course if you can get a teacher. It's important to start off right so you don't have to unlearn bad habits or wrong technique. But if this is not possible pick up one of the methods books and start working your way through it and see what you think.

Your playing in your video is good and I don't doubt you will do excellent on piano.

Good luck!
_________________________
Preparing Grade 6 RCM.


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#1985697 - 11/12/12 11:26 AM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1776
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Kiel
when I listen to the song I can get the chords when I get the chords I will know Instinctively where to press in the rhythm


I find this statement intriguing. If this is true, it would seem that a "Fake" book would be something you could be successful with. It shows you the melody and the chords and you just have to figure out how to blend them together to make music.

I prefer jazz fake books because they have chords that I like better but there are fake books for any kind of music. You may wish to look into that.
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1985732 - 11/12/12 01:40 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1776
Loc: Pennsylvania
On the other hand, if classical music and becoming classically trained is something that interests you, this link may prove worthwhile ...


http://playingpianoblog.com/learn-to-play-the-piano/
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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#1985769 - 11/12/12 03:53 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3449
>sound easy but I dunno some teachers/Instructor here in my place who teach.

Did you already look around? I'm pretty sure there are teachers in your area unless you live in the middle of nowhere
_________________________

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#1985770 - 11/12/12 03:55 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Welcome to PW Kiel smile We're organising the 3rd "Themed" recital here on PW, would be great if you'd consider joining us wink
Themed Recital

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#1985848 - 11/12/12 06:56 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
Kiel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Philippines
@dmd
the fake book you said is new to me and I looked it up in google. "A fake book is a collection of musical lead sheets intended to help a performer quickly learn new songs. Each song in a fake book contains the melody line, basic chords, and lyrics - the minimal information needed by a musician to make an impromptu arrangement of a song, or "fake it." is this right?

and about what I said, Sorry for may bad English.
when I listen to music especially if it catches my attention I would get may laptop, sit and listen. 1st thing I do is how to say this "GUESS" the chord or the rhythm. if I know the lyrics then I would be guessing the rhythm, but if I just heard it I would be guessing the chords until i get to the point that the sound jives with the one I'm listening. is this what you call "WIDOW/WIDOWER?" correct me if I'm wrong. my cousin told me before that every song has a pattern that in every chord and rhythm has a pattern and before playing any keys picture out the next key/chords to press at the back of your mind so it would be easy. that's why I was able to say I can get the chords when I get the chords I will know Instinctively where to press in the rhythm. or I'm just purely guessing I dunno.

Quote:
On the other hand, if classical music and becoming classically trained is something that interests you, this link may prove worthwhile ...

actually I like Classical Musics, like Beethoven and Mozart piece but I can't play them because its to deep. I was only able to decipher fur Elise maybe just the intro at least, but reading the sheets is hard and it would take me days maybe just to understand one page.

Quote:

Did you already look around? I'm pretty sure there are teachers in your area unless you live in the middle of nowhere

maybe I'll try looking once again.

@wayne33yrs
It would be an honor but uhm, the list in your link. its classical music, and I'm having hard time reading sheets. I really love classics but my weakness is reading sheets. I'm sorry to disappoint you.



Edited by Kiel (11/12/12 07:01 PM)

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#1985857 - 11/12/12 07:10 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I could help smile Maybe write you the note names on the score of your choice smile

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#1985870 - 11/12/12 08:15 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
aTallGuyNH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 500
Originally Posted By: Kiel
Quote:
@aTallGuyNH
When you say you can barely read music, does this mean you don't know how to interpret certain aspects of notation, or you understand all of it but it comes very slowly when you try to read something?


what I meant was, I can't understand some notes in the piano sheet. and I am slow in reading notes but when I listen to the song I can get the chords when I get the chords I will know Instinctively where to press in the rhythm. or if I know how to play the rhythm I can also Instinctively know what chord to press. but when it come to sheets its hard for me.

I must say, I'm quite envious that you are able to pick things up by ear. It's not unheard of naturally, but it is an unusual gift and shows an innate musical talent that you are clearly nurturing.

Reading sheet music is a talent that I'm pretty sure nobody has innately, it just requires doing it, building your skills little by little, day in and day out. Stick with it, and your hard work combined with your God-given talent will help you to blossom. You will find those classical works -- and anything else you can get your hands on for sheet music -- to be quite accessible to you, in time. I'm quite sure of this.

I would recommend checking out www.sightreadingpractice.com for developing the ability to read individual notes in any key and transfer them to the keyboard. I'm still much slower than I would like to be, but this has helped quite a bit.

Also, Bobpickle's Music Theory thread here is an incredible resource. Start at the top and work your way down.

You seem to have a great proficiency with chords. When you've gotten through section #4, you can jump into how those chords are represented in sheet music, I just found today (thanks to Bob!) this little exercise page that I'm guessing you will find helpful as well.

Choose the "Chord Identification" option and you'll be on your way to making the connection between what you hear and play with what you would see on the sheet. You will start to see patterns very quickly. I'm just beginning at this myself, but the advice I've seen and am starting to take advantage of is that the key to success is to not try to read individual notes, but rather to focus on the patterns, i.e. the "shape" of the chords -- both on the page and with your hands. It looks like you are well on your way with the hands part already.

Originally Posted By: Kiel
Quote:
Would you consider posting this to the recital? You would get lots of positive feedback, and some constructive criticism as well that would help answer yourquestion re: progressing.

do you mean posting my cover here in the forum? is that correct?

Yes, in the quarterly recital (#28), posting info is here. It's wide open, any type of song, piece, improv, whatever, as long as it is piano. If you search on previous recitals you can get a feel for the range of styles, including all different levels of skill. Don't let the word "recital" intimidate you though, it's very much a "here's how I'm doing now" opportunity to share with others and get some helpful feedback and encouragement.

As of this moment, you have 48 hours and 45 minutes until the deadline!

P.S. Don't worry about your English, it's just fine, we're all learning something or another, so no worries.
_________________________
"...when you do practice properly, it seems to take no time at all. Just do it right five times or so, and then stop." -- JimF

Working on: my aversion to practicing in front of my wife

1978 Vose & Sons spinet "Rufus"
1914 Huntington upright "Mabel"

XXIX-XXXII

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#1985919 - 11/12/12 10:17 PM Re: New to the Forum [Help] [Re: Kiel]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1776
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Kiel
@dmd
the fake book you said is new to me and I looked it up in google. "A fake book is a collection of musical lead sheets intended to help a performer quickly learn new songs. Each song in a fake book contains the melody line, basic chords, and lyrics - the minimal information needed by a musician to make an impromptu arrangement of a song, or "fake it." is this right?


Yes, exactly right.


Quote:
actually I like Classical Musics, like Beethoven and Mozart piece but I can't play them because its to deep.


Well, after observing you play it appears that classical music would be a good fit for you. You play with nice tempo and very clean. That is perfect for classical music.


The link I mentioned earlier would be great for you.

http://playingpianoblog.com/learn-to-play-the-piano/


Another option for classical training is at ...

http://fundamentalkeys.com/index.html

Of course, a teacher would be best if you can afford it.

I hope you find the right path. You have talent but without the right training, it can go undeveloped.

Good Luck



Edited by dmd (11/12/12 10:18 PM)
_________________________
Don

My current system: Kawai ES7 + Focal CMS40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 audio interface, Mackie ProFX8 Mixer, Ravenscroft275, True Keys American Grand, Ivory II American Concert D, Steinway Basic, Galaxy Vintage D, True Pianos, Pianoteq, Alicia's Keys

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