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I was a musicology major ... It makes sense to me why certain people don't like theory all that much, I mean it exists even in higher levels ... but it makes me sad. What do you do about it if it's a kid?

Music theory is a lot like math. A lot of people hate math. And it's not how theory is presented or taught, either. Some people will hate music theory NO MATTER WHAT--even if you are the most interesting teacher in the world using the most interesting theory textbook.

Just accept it. Pick your battles.

Has the kid been introduced to theory before, and maybe in a way that made him (her) dislike it? How are you introducing it? Somebody mentioned choice of textbooks. Must textbooks be involved?

No, textbooks do not need to be involved, but there are VERY good theory books for kids and VERY bad theory books for kids.

The student I am talking about is a ten year old. If you ever watch the tv show "Modern Family" he is like Manny - he talks like an adult, has this cool style kind of attitude ... that wise child character. It's hard to give him an incentive since he doesn't like stickers. This kid is on John Thompson book 2, and the theory book he is on is an Australian book called "Blitz your theory" - It's good for kids, and his on the first book. The theory is very basic, it just involves him filling out worksheets on note naming, drawing treble clefs, placing the bar lines in the right places. They are simple worksheets, I don't get him to do much. I'd happily teach him some composition to make it interesting or even analyse his music with him ... but I'd just like him to get the basics right. I have him fill out 1 page a week, there is a girl who is a few years younger than him who does 2-5 pages a week, I'm not trying to compare the two, it's obvious that the latter girl likes theory, but I wonder if I should ditch the workbook completely and teach by concept.

AZN piano that's true, some people really hate theory, thing is I used to really hate theory until it was well taught ... I wonder if the way I'm teaching it is rather boring.

He would dislike Gil de Benedetti's theory printable pages more than the book you're using ?
http://www.gmajormusictheory.org/Fundamentals/workbooks.html

They combine "lesson", examples, written exercises and to-try-at-keyboard exercises in a very nice, 'adult' way. Definitely appealing for a knowledge geek. Maybe give him the Privilege, not the Chore to explore these ;-)

Your last sentence was my first thought.

Here is what I see. You have an intelligent, mature, thinking student. You have been interested in theory once it was taught in a good way, probably with it becoming meaningful - from your blog alone you seem a thinking, creative type of person and so well suited to the student you described. But in this description, your student is "on John Thompson" and he "is on" a theory book, filling out pages. Why not teach him theory, rather than have him fill out workbooks? You have the fascination - can you share it with him?


What is it that you think the workbooks are teaching? Will he need the skill of drawing a treble clef (which is sort of a calligraphy lesson), or is it for him to recognize the clef and know its function? Note naming - so this is for recognizing the notes in written music, and hopefully relating those notes to piano notes so that he can read the music? Can you teach those things from other angles? Bar lines in the right places - you mean so that in a 3/4 signature he would place the bar lines in such a way that you'll have 3 beats within each of them? Can this be made real with music - maybe things he can create with you?

What is his attitude to music and piano in general? Are there things he is enthusiastic about or at least likes? I'm trying some brainstorming type ideas. Theory is part of music, but it is treated like a separate abstract on-paper exercise. It should be possible to draw one from the other, and some teachers I know have done that. The person I taught was an adult, but we began theory with concrete things involving the piano, listening, and exploring, and only did paperwork afterward.


Do you think that you could draw the basics out of one of these two things?

See the thing is KS, I think he should be familiar with writing treble clefs, writing notes in the grand stave - having hand writing that is legible on the stave. I normally don't rely on the theory book to teach my students - for most students it works like this: We work on technique and repertoire (separately but also seamlessly - in the sense that we work on scales which is something that is purely technical, but I make sure that they apply what they learn from their scales to their playing) and if there is something that needs working on (e.g. a student was accentuating the wrong beats of every bar, so we talked about time signatures, meter and pulse, I talked about it conceptually with her, we draw the note value tree together. I play to her how something should sound like and how something should sound like and get her to pick the right one.) I use the textbook to reinforce what I have taught - I get the student to fill out exercises so that they remember and understand the concept thoroughly.

When I brought up the topic 'theory' to this kid, he said to me he hated it because he hated doing worksheets and he said that theory was pointless ... he whinged about it and threw a mild tantrum.

Well, maybe theory via worksheets does feel pointless. How does it relate to music? If he sees a use for theory, and a relationship to music, then you have him on board. Then the next step is for him to find a way to learn the things that need learning since he is a thinker. Your idea of composition goes in that direction. Or just plain ordinary --- You need to become able to write notes on the staff, to be able to draw a treble clef: find a way to learn these and show me next week so that you don't have to use a workbook. Or - if the student is to remember what you taught - what can he do to remember it? If he is independent, can you use that?

Thank you for sharing this website!

I became aware of that site a while back, and the person doing it seems quite serious. He also does advanced things like learning to transcribe what you hear (and to hear). He keeps adding and improving, and for a year there were updates if you subscribe. I seem to remember that he has had to limit that now - can't remember the details. It's a good site that is rich in material.

I am throwing this out there...could it be he hates writing? Any writing? What does his penmanship look like?

Can his theory be done on a computer?

Now, THAT should improve his penmanship AND his writing!

Sorry to hear your student hates theory even though you're using the Blitz book with him - I love that series and find it much less dry than most other theory series.

Handwriting difficulty can be disgraphia. My best friend's son has this and no matter how much practice and help with an OT he did, his writing never improved.

There are many factors for poor writing. Laziness and not enough practice are rarely the issue.

Is the purpose to learn theory or to struggle with penmanship?

Like it or not, children need to learn to function in the real world. If it is an either/or situation, then the kid better spend his time learning to write properly.

Theory, by its very nature, IS a high verbal skill, and is demonstrated primarily in reasoning and writing. Just philosophically, if a kid is not developmentally ready to write, is s/he really ready for music theory?

[[ OK, KeyString, I am prepared for the BLAST! ]]

If the student does not like theory on paper, but excels doing it on a computer is that skill less valuable?

It's like cursive writing. Should schools still teach cursive writing, in this day and age when everybody types?

Exactly how would that work? The rudiments that Nannerl Mozart is describing are asking the student to draw the G and F clefs. Soon, they will be requiring the drawing of various value notes and rests, sharps and flats. Perhaps a nice CAD, or desktop publishing program?

In my opinion, an emphatic YES! Part of development is learning to form letters, numbers, and shapes - by hand. By doing so, it INTERNALIZES those symbolic objects, and the repetition makes them OWNED by the individual. The use of these symbols, created with the crudest tools, allows the individual to communicate at the highest of levels. It's sort of magic.